6-5a

quote:

Originally posted by ACowboyFan:
I don't know if Coppell will win state but if they lose it will because they get beat by a better team not because they failed to show-up.... it was Coppell that lost to Southlake in 2 one run games last year in the playoffs so the margin of difference was very close ....

I think I know what you are trying to say and I accept it if you are saying Coppell and SLake will give good efforts.

However, I do want to make a point. In baseball, the "best" team does not always win a single game. Some days, all the bloopers fall in, on another all the line drives get caught, the umpire call on a close play or two just doesn't seem to happen for you.

That's why there are series in baseball, to help balance the law of averages out. However, a 2 of 3 is not much of a series and our crazy Texas system still allows a 1 gamer if the wrong coach wins the toss.

District 6-5a will be the toughest district in the State, but if there's one thing i've learned it's not to put much stock in pre-season polls. Flower Mound was not on anyones radar last year and ended up in the elite 8. Now this year they are on everyone list. I think it will be a good race till the last district game with Flower Mound and Coppell finishing 1,2 but you can never count Southlake, Marcus and Hebron out. Every Game is gonna be important. Just get to the playoffs. Who knows what happens.

quote:

Originally posted by beenthere:
[QUOTE]

However, I do want to make a point. In baseball, the "best" team does not always win a single game. Some days, all the bloopers fall in, on another all the line drives get caught, the umpire call on a close play or two just doesn't seem to happen for you.

Not very many people like to talk about this in HS baseball, but I think about it all the time when we talk about district rankings. Here's an illustration of the problem...

If you have two teams, and the inferior one is capable of winning only 1/3 of the time when they play (think about that - it's a pretty likely scenario for two HS baseball teams, especially with all those 1-run games), then mathematically the inferior team is capable of winning a 7 game series once in every 5 times. Its a Stats101 textbook problem.

If this could happen with 7-game series, how could we possibly hope to get an accurate representation of the best team with all these two-game matchups, let alone get an accurate ranking for all of them?

Really, this emphasizes "why they still play 'em", and why all those mid-ranked teams shouldn't get too discouraged to hear how great Coppell is going to be. Maybe they are great, but they don't have a statistically significant set of games to rely on...

Copell has choked the last 2 years against Marcus !! Maybe there 6 all americans can make a difference this year !!

quote:

Originally posted by tychco:
...But when someone posts that a HS player is an All-American, they are just inviting some smart-$%& remarks. There is no All-American list anywhere for HS kids that would hold water. No one group of people has seen even 1% of players across the country to be able to evaluate them....

I agree that All-America "teams" are all about hype and don't necessarily relate to H.S. team victories. However, I disagree that using your statement "no one group of people has seen even 1% of players" as a reason to discount these kinds of honors are not valid. The same can be said of practically any All-America team, college, high school, no matter what the sport. To the contrary, baseball has an excellent system for evaluating amateur baseball players. It is called the MLB pro scouting system. They have regional scouts, cross-checkers, national directors and a whole system for evaluating talent. It's their only job and they are good at it. That being said, the truth is that these baseball H.S. All-America teams are not really an honor for H.S. baseball success. What they really are is a selection of top pro prospects, as determined by organizations that are looking over the pro scouts' shoulders.

quote:

Originally posted by flyn4alvn:
District 6-5a will be the toughest district in the State, but if there's one thing i've learned it's not to put much stock in pre-season polls. Flower Mound was not on anyones radar last year and ended up in the elite 8. Now this year they are on everyone list. I think it will be a good race till the last district game with Flower Mound and Coppell finishing 1,2 but you can never count Southlake, Marcus and Hebron out.....

I just don't get it. Southlake gets to the state championship game. Most of their team is back, but they still can't get folks to put them in the top two in their district. Yes, I know they lost some pitching, but just about everyone has, and they didn't rely on dominant pitching anyway, IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by beenthere:

quote:

Originally posted by tychco:
...But when someone posts that a HS player is an All-American, they are just inviting some smart-$%& remarks. There is no All-American list anywhere for HS kids that would hold water. No one group of people has seen even 1% of players across the country to be able to evaluate them....

I agree that All-America "teams" are all about hype and don't necessarily relate to H.S. team victories. However, I disagree that using your statement "no one group of people has seen even 1% of players" as a reason to discount these kinds of honors are not valid. The same can be said of practically any All-America team, college, high school, no matter what the sport. To the contrary, baseball has an excellent system for evaluating amateur baseball players. It is called the MLB pro scouting system. They have regional scouts, cross-checkers, national directors and a whole system for evaluating talent. It's their only job and they are good at it. That being said, the truth is that these baseball H.S. All-America teams are not really an honor for H.S. baseball success. What they really are is a selection of top pro prospects, as determined by organizations that are looking over the pro scouts' shoulders.

I never said these honors were not valid, I simply said that HS All-America lists are a joke. I have seen every one of those players numerous times and they are some of the very best players I have seen, but that doesn't give me enough perspective to say they are better or worse than kids from California, Florida, etc.

Regarding the MLB scouts, these guys still miss on more than they hit on. It is an inexact science.

Time will tell whether these HS All-Americans are the very best or not.

Yes, time will tell and I agree that pre-season polls mean nothing. As a matter of fact, I would prefer that my team not be picked to win---it's just unwanted pressure on the kids. Also, I would prefer my son not be ranked highly. Again, the pressure is more likely to hurt their performance than help them. However, Tychco, your post seems to ring a bit like you have the taste of sour grapes in your mouth. Why not just congratulate the kids and move on? You can gloat later if they don't succeed.

High expectations are indeed a dangerous thing for athletes and teams who have not been taught effective patterns of thought regarding this sort of "pressure." However, with that knowledge and the skill to implement these patterns of thought, high expectations are clearly the best kind to have.

quote:

Originally posted by newby4444:
Yes, time will tell and I agree that pre-season polls mean nothing. As a matter of fact, I would prefer that my team not be picked to win---it's just unwanted pressure on the kids. Also, I would prefer my son not be ranked highly. Again, the pressure is more likely to hurt their performance than help them. However, Tychco, your post seems to ring a bit like you have the taste of sour grapes in your mouth. Why not just congratulate the kids and move on? You can gloat later if they don't succeed.

newby,

You don't know me, so I will pass on your accusation. In addition, please read my whole post, as I said the players listed are some of the best I have seen...in fact some are summer teammates/friends of my son and some of my favorite kids. Also, I named no particular player, but rather I discussed the process of HS All-American lists.

I am not sour, nor do I like grapes. Since this was your third post, maybe you can think before you write your 4th, otherwise, save the bandwidth.

quote:

Originally posted by newby4444:
However, Tychco, your post seems to ring a bit like you have the taste of sour grapes in your mouth. Why not just congratulate the kids and move on? You can gloat later if they don't succeed.

This comment shows that you do not know who you are talking to. You would be better served by keeping these kind of comments to yourself. Then your other comments might be taken more seriously.

I can assure you that Tychco does not suffer from "sour grapes" syndrome. He's got a laundry list of other faults, but that's not one of them.

Oldest Tychco kid is an outstanding player, one his coaches and teammates appreciate. And the kid has a great college opportunity awaiting, one he has earned. There is nothing for Tychco is be sour about.

You would be better served by keeping these kind of comments to yourself????

Another typical example of how you guys can dish out your own opinions freely but immediately try to shut down those you don't agree with. Gee, I wonder why people are afraid to post on this website? I guess I should be afraid to post again.

Let's cut the newby a break guys.

Newby -- your initial posts seemed somewhat hostile, even if that wasn't your intent. tychco is many things....but he has always expressed an appreciation for the talented kids that play in this area. It is a discussion that can cause much passion. We all appreciate our sons being recognized, be it All-world or All-short bus.

Guys -- the old man can take care of himself....but good dog pile.

Sorry, newby, an item came up for discussion and we offered differing opinions.

This has absolutely nothing to do with my kid or any kid in particular...just a concept I happen to think is flawed.

Nothing personal and certainly nothing that should make you want to stay away from the Forums.

quote:

Originally posted by Panther Dad:
Let's cut the newby a break guys.

Newby -- your initial posts seemed somewhat hostile, even if that wasn't your intent. tychco is many things....but he has always expressed an appreciation for the talented kids that play in this area. It is a discussion that can cause much passion. We all appreciate our sons being recognized, be it All-world or All-short bus.

Guys -- the old man can take care of himself....but good dog pile.

He can, but watch whom you call old... and shouldn't you be updating your Facebook status? Also, when is Mizzou gonna update the spring roster? I want to see JE's smiling face.

Step gingerly, step oh so gingerly!

I'll use Coach J's private line and ask him to update the roster. HA! I continue to receive information on a need-to-know basis.....and apparently, I just don't need to know.

When do the boys play East at Martin?

Jennifer Tyde Classic:

Plano East Studs vs. Northwest TwoLeftThumbers

Thursday, Mar. 5 at 2:30 pm at Mansfield HS

quote:

Originally posted by newby4444:
You would be better served by keeping these kind of comments to yourself????

Another typical example of how you guys can dish out your own opinions freely but immediately try to shut down those you don't agree with. Gee, I wonder why people are afraid to post on this website? I guess I should be afraid to post again.

You have just shown again that you do not take the time to read a post and understand what one is trying to say. Reread Tycho's post then yours and then mine and think before you comment. Just saying

I enjoy reading all the post and rarely post any of my own but I think some of you are overlooking LHS. Can they win district? I doubt it but they can be a spoiler and that is a role a lot of the players enjoy.

Farmer Dad,

Son plays with a former "Fighting Farmer" Brandon Endsley. Just curious if you know where Josh Choate (Keel) is these days. I know he played for El Paso junior college last year and his name is not on the 2009 roster.

Send me a PM instead of you would like.

I talked to him this summer when he was coaching the summer JV team. I can't remember for sure but I think he is at one of the local community colleges. I want to say Brookhaven but I am not positive.

Thanks!

This discussion has been highly entertaining and everyone has made valid points. I made a point in another discussion that I thought the DFW area might possibly be one of the most fertile areas in the U.S for baseball talent, if not THE area....Houston, Austin and maybe some spots in Florida/California may want to argue, but, as I have noted...take a look at the D1 rosters and DFW is a major contributor.

While the "big boys" (DBAT, Marshalls, Tigers, et.al) do a great job of getting kids to the next level...it all boils down to the chemistry that exists on the HS team...how these "star" players mesh with the kids on the roster that will determine the success of the HS season. It boils down to the seldom used middle reliever, the #7,8,9 hitters performance, etc, etc.

Speaking of the summer awards...Chris Davis ring any bells? Who knew him before last MLB season...someone made an outstanding remark earlier..."Let's re-visit this in 4 years"

quote:

Originally posted by tychco:
I never said these honors were not valid, I simply said that HS All-America lists are a joke. I have seen every one of those players numerous times and they are some of the very best players I have seen, but that doesn't give me enough perspective to say they are better or worse than kids from California, Florida, etc......

Okay... I guess your logic is well beyond me. ... these honors are "valid", but they are a "joke."

OK, this ain't that hard and ain't this big a deal, but I will type slower so you can follow along.

Many of the players listed are talented players, no doubt...but an All-American ranking list of any kind is worthless, but this is just my opinion.

beenthere, if you have a problem with my logic, then skip to the next enlightening thread. I know there are at least a couple of threads that have different Plano HS dads arguing about the best hitter in District 8-5A. I bet the winner will be named to the All-American team.

quote:

Originally posted by tychco:
OK, this ain't that hard and ain't this big a deal, but I will type slower so you can follow along.

I dunno, tychco...I was sort of thinking the same thing as beenthere was, "...did that dude actually say, 'I never said these honors were not valid, I simply said that HS All-America lists are a joke.'...?"

But you're probably right about morons who take things so literally. Those of us too simple minded to keep up with such sophisticated logic should probably just go play with the thread that tries to cram the word "Karma" into every known English expression.

beenthere - Until you get the venerable "HBBWeb Old Timer" moniker, you need to stop bringing up inconsistencies like this one, and especially that uncomfortable Southlake thing. You clearly just don't know what you're typing about.

wraggarm and beenthere, WOW! You guys are much smarter than me...I am a simply man who grew up in West Texas and didn't get much book learning. I want to express my gratitude to both of you for pointing out my inconsistency.

My apologies to the HSBBW Texas Forum community. Apparently I made a mistake and thank goodness there were editors who caught it in time. Please allow me to try this again:

The HS All-American list is the most comprehensive and flawless list of the top high school players in the country.

Now that should put this really important topic to bed once and for all . Maybe now the discussion goes back to I suppose less interesting things like teams, players, and predictions for 6-5A ...

Really, because I thought that we already awarded the District Title to Coppell, 2nd and 3rd to Flower Mound and South Lake Carroll, and poor old Hebron, Marcus and Lewisville and fighing it out for the scraps?

Whew! when I said this was entertaining, it was an understatement.

FD, I have known you (from a far) a while now. even umped some of your games....I have seen what you can do with mediocre talent...looking forward to seeing what you do with the good stuff.

Come May, we will all know how things shake out

I appreciate that Tiger. We'll be down in your neck of the woods on Feb. 14 scrimmaging Summit.

I've read with interest this entire thread, and the competing arguments regarding players summer honors. I, for one, am not prepared to say that those mean nothing, but they certainly are not determinative, either.

The true facts are that every single team in this district has strong players, and would make the play-offs if they were situated in any number of other districts around the area. Alas, only 4 can make it.

Then add to that the fact that this district is in Region I, which will include the strong West Texas teams (including Soccorro), and the defending State Champion, Plano West, and it is clear that it will be extremely difficult for 6-5A to field a State Tournament team, despite the strength of the district. It may be true that this is the toughest district in the State, with several of the top teams, but with the play-off format, anything can happen.

Sounds good...was going to go see the Lamar Scrim that Fri ( see how the soap opra is going for PK) and will swing over Sat (most likely) to see what "you got there"

Baby, I've tried to tell you, you can't confuse literal minds with figurative speech. They just can't get it. They're black and white; they don't see the gray.

quote:

Originally posted by The Voice of Reason:

The true facts are that every single team in this district has strong players, and would make the play-offs if they were situated in any number of other districts around the area. Alas, only 4 can make it.

Then add to that the fact that this district is in Region I, which will include the strong West Texas teams (including Soccorro), and the defending State Champion, Plano West, and it is clear that it will be extremely difficult for 6-5A to field a State Tournament team, despite the strength of the district. It may be true that this is the toughest district in the State, with several of the top teams, but with the play-off format, anything can happen.

While I agree with most of what the Voice of Reason is saying, I'd like to put my own personal spin on it.

First off, 6-5A "could be" one of the best districts around...so could 8-5A, 1-5A, 2-5A, 3-5A...and so on in my estimation. Really, this whole Region is tough from District 1 out in El Paso, all the way to District 8 and the far out post of McKinney. Over the last several years, I have been lucky enough to coach in District 4-5A, so I have had to do my homework on the West Texas Schools, as well as everyone in D/FW. Very few coaches in this area have had to do this, so I think I can speak with confidence about the strength and depth of this Region.

Voice, it will just be as tough for Socorro to make it to state as it will for anyone in our district, or 8-5A, and so on. Eventually, they will have to play someone from this area in the Regional Semi's or Finals. Two years ago Martin took them out in 3, last year it was Flower Mound...both years in the Regional Semi's. Of course, Montwood and Franklin will have something to say about Socorro out in El Paso. We play Montwood in the first game of the Midland Tournament.

District 2 - Midland returns almost everybody in their line-up plus their best 3 pitchers. My Summit team swept them in the 1st round last year, but they will be tough to beat in a 3 game series, they can swing it! Lubbock Monterey will be in the hunt and Odessa High has a lefty that is as good as anyone in the state. You won't want to play them in a 1 game playoff. Amarillo and Amarillo Tascosa also return quite a few players from their playoff teams. We play Odessa, Tascosa and Midland in the Midland Tournament. Midland Lee made it to state 2 years ago, came in last last season. We play them in our tournament Feb. 27, so we'll see. Coach Chumbley at Permian has a righty that throws 89-90, when he's not hurt. Mojo graduated almost everybody else.

District 3 - FW Paschal's top 3 pitchers are as talented as anyone's. Abilene's #1 has signed with Arizona. Saw him pitch 3 times last year, he has good stuff and can beat anyone. Weatherford's #1 has signed with Arkansas and has a pretty solid cast around him. Plus Coach Massey is as good as anyone around here. Burleson has a couple of good arms, so does Haltom and Richland.

District 4 - Martin has a few position players back but needs to replace pitching. However, this is Martin we are talking about and they don't rebuild, just reload. Coach Culbertson will get the most out of them. Lamar looks good on paper, hopefully Coach Kino will get to "coach" them. Arlington returns everybody but their catcher...who will be hard to replace. I have already went into detail about Summit and Mansfield.

District 5 - See another thread...I like Colleyville's pitching! If those guys are going to limit the opposition to 2-3 runs, I bet they have enough talent there to "scratch out" 4 runs a game. Grapevine has the most guys back and should finish in the top 3. Keller Central will be strong, but so will Keller and Bell. Northwest will be solid and if you let up against Ridge or Trinity, you'll get beat!

District 6 - Enough said already!

District 7 - SGP and Cedar Hill should be at the top of this district. Duncanville will contend even though they don't have the talent they did 10-15 years ago. When those kids put on that uniform and play in that stadium, they will play over their heads...I have seen it! Coach Anderson will once again have them in the playoffs! Irving High has been the best team out of Irving for the last several years.

District 8 - Discussion starts with Plano West, they are THE champs! Like Ric Flair used to say, "To be the man...you got to beat the man...WOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!"

So, what does all this mean? Not a stinking thing because these are a bunch of kids we are talking about that have WAY MORE distractions than we did as kids...plus girlfriends!!! Like Rocky Balboa's trainer Mickey used to tell him, "Lay off that Pet shop dame kid...WOMEN WEAKEN LEGS!!!" Oh and I won't leave out the coaches. I mean if I was that good of a coach, I'd be the skipper of a big league team, right? But then again, what do I know, I'm just a high school baseball coach!

quote:

The HS All-American list is the most comprehensive and flawless list of the top high school players in the country.

I'm glad I deleted my post this morning before I chided in on the subject.

quote:

Originally posted by tychco:
OK, this ain't that hard and ain't this big a deal, but I will type slower so you can follow along.

Many of the players listed are talented players, no doubt...but an All-American ranking list of any kind is worthless, but this is just my opinion.

beenthere, if you have a problem with my logic, then skip to the next enlightening thread....

Thanks for your enlightment. I'm reading slower, but my mind is not as multi-dimensional as yours that I can say something is a joke and valid at the same time. It looks like you've toned down your rhetoric a little bit. I do agree to some degree that an All-American honor is anything but perfectly selected, but I actually think H.S. baseball has a pretty nice system for people to get around and look at top "prospects" (not necessarily top "performers"). Of course, that is the professional scouting system. What other high school sport has such a large a group of folks as these knowledgeable guys who's only job is to evaluate talent?

I bet you're all nice guys in real life.