60 Minutes Looks at Redshirting

just watched part of it. interesting. my son was born on august 30, 1995 and we kept him back, even though he had the one day buffer. we always thought he would be the oldest in his class. not even close. athletic directors son was born in march, and over half his class older than him.

My wife had a good question:
"If delaying their start is so beneficial, why not just start all kids in kindergarten at age 6?"

That levels all fields....

and give everyone a trophy, too?

quote:

Originally posted by hokieone:
My wife had a good question:
"If delaying their start is so beneficial, why not just at all kids in kindergarten at age 6?"

That levels all fields....

Because if you start all kids at 6, then issue just gets pushed back one year. There will be kids who are just about one full year older and some who are just about one full year younger.

We did the opposite---our September birthday kids (2 of them) we sent ahead......they were ready. How do you know when they are 4 or 5 that they will be athletes? You don't.

There are those horror stories of more mature kids being bored who get into trouble as much as there are the stories of kids who get in trouble due to immaturity.

There was a kid in my community who had an early birthday to begin with but his parents held him back anyway. When he was in 8th grade, he decided that he wanted to play football in high school. But the parents wanted him to play in grade school first, so they had him repeat 8th grade. Don't know why the principal allowed it, he was smart. So, anyway, he turned 16 as he started school as a freshman, and graduated at just a few months shy of 20. No surprise that kid set all sorts of state records. He truly was a man among boys.

My son has a late spring birthday. Freshman year of basketball 2/3rds of the team was a year older. A couple were a year and a half older. In a sport where size matters my son was a dwarf at 5'11", 135.

1. Someone needs to tell the lady who held her son back (in part) for athletics that her son's baseball swing is terrible.

2. I have 3 data points in my family...all 3 started (or will start) college at 17 (i.e. 'pushed forward' by redshirting standards). I am a believer in data so I won't argue that its all bunk...but I guess the 3 of us busted the odds in a very big way in terms of athletics and academics.

3. Enjoyed the book, "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell. Good read. Glad to see he kind of dismissed this move by these parents.

4. (And most important to me) As I was out of college and in the 'real world' effectively a year early...I am eternally grateful to my parents for not 'redshirting' me. I feel like that with the 'push' I got an extra year of life at the back end. Thanks Mom and Dad!

Sad that a decision like this could be based upon some future potential athletic advantage. It should be based upon the individual and their readiness for school ONLY!

I believe this is rarely a benefit. Child development is so entwined with formal education that I think you effectively hold back their education by one year when you hold back. I'll start my children as soon as I can someday. As others have said, I'd rather get out into the job market a year younger than a year older.

quote:

Originally posted by AntzDad:
and give everyone a trophy, too?

Good one Antz!

The mother who held her son back is 1000 times more responsible for the softening of America than any participation trophy the kid will ever get.

I didn't get to watch the program but was transitional kindergarten mentioned? I know many southern/west coast schools have a grade between Kindergarten and 1st for children with late birthdays. It was called T-1 at my son's elementary and the child's birthday had to fall after January or February to be eligible if I'm not mistaken. Not sure on the exact date though. I know many schools cut or are cutting this program due to cost. I'd be curious to know if many schools still have it. It was a more formal/ethical method of combating the age issue for the younger/less mature kids in the class. It was an optional program.

I was always the youngest in my grade 45 years ago and felt if I had the extra year it would have made a significant difference. Our son would have been one of the youngest in his class with a late November B-day and a Dec. 31 cut-off date. Most of the country had a Sept 1 cut-off date so we held him back to be able to compete academically and athletically nationally when it came time for College. Our state is now a Sept. 1 cut-off. He is not the oldest in his class but is the tallest and nearly the fastest. I thought I knew at five years old of his athletic potential given his size and coordination and have been proven correct. So we sent him at 5.75 yrs old instead of 4.75.

Guess that makes me a bad parent...LOL.

My son has a December b-day. We hammered our county to get him into Kindergarten that that year he turned 5 ( he would have started as 4 year old I guess) and they wouldn't have it.

He's a FR that just turned 15. So I guess that will make him 18 and 6 months when he graduates.

Well that explains why my kid is dumb as a box of rocks... he has a June Bday and we sent him off to school at age 5.

Both mine started kindergarten at 4 yrs old because their birthdays are late in the year but within the cutoff date. Maybe for some kids at that age they aren't ready but mine were and I'd never hold them back unless they weren't mature enough for the classroom. Playing HS sports and projecting kids heights to play HS sports were the last thing to be thinking about.. Yea..Can you imagine that. I used to get the whack jobs who calculated how big their kid was gonna be when he played HS and college ball as a 10yr old.

quote:

Originally posted by zombywoof:
Both mine started kindergarten at 4 yrs old because their birthdays are late in the year but within the cutoff date. Maybe for some kids at that age they aren't ready but mine were and I'd never hold them back unless they weren't mature enough for the classroom. Playing HS sports and projecting kids heights to play HS sports were the last thing to be thinking about.. Yea..Can you imagine that. I used to get the whack jobs who calculated how big their kid was gonna be when he played HS and college ball as a 10yr old.

Is starting Kindergarten at age 4 and presumably college at age 17 standard in NJ, or did you have your kids start early? Thanks

Play down in school. Play up in baseball.

Did I get it right?

Texas1836, don't know about NJ, but in PA the district sets the cutoff date. Today, most are 5 by Sept 1 for kindergarten. Private school has some wiggle room. Many will take a 4 year old and see how he/she does.

When I was a kid, everyone born in the same year started school at the same time. Didn't matter if you were born Jan 1 or Dec 31, you all went together. Even the 'Irish' twins. (just like USA Hockey does it) They even let kids born in Jan the following year go, too. Had a few born in Feb. I guess the idea back then was get them outta mom's hair as soon as possible.

The state law in PA is a child must start first grade if age seven by September 1. Although most kids start with kindergarten, it's not a requirement. Kids are eligible for kindergarten if age five by September 1 and first grade if six by September 1.

quote:

Originally posted by Texas1836:

Is starting Kindergarten at age 4 and presumably college at age 17 standard in NJ, or did you have your kids start early? Thanks

My kids started on time in NJ because the cutoff is Oct 31. They both started kindergarten at 4 but were turning 5 shortly after school started. One is graduating in May with a major and two minors with honors and the other starts college this falland both would be 17 starting their college freshman year. In both of my kid's situations, starting on time didn't hurt them at all and both of them probably could've been held back but we really couldn't justify doing that since socially they were ready as well as mature enough at their age as they could be. There were quite a few kids who started late. I suppose at 4-5, the kids are either ready or their not. I think maybe an extra year might be good for those kids who aren't ready. Had they shown not to be ready, we would've held them back. What we would've never have done was hold them back after they started school unless of course academically, they were flunking and would've been held back by the school. Definitely not for sports in the hopes of some growth spurt that's not guarenteed. Also, by holding them back for sports, it's possible the younger graduating class has a stronger group of players so in those instances might have a tougher time cracking a varsity lineup.

just baseball,
I was out of HS at 16 and started college at 16. I wasn't mature enough and spent 4 years in the service getting a bit wiser and a few more units of college as well. Overall I lost about 2 years time wise. I don't regret a moment of the two years "lost" and I don't think it hurt my career at all. Just goes to show everyone's personal experience is different or that life works better if you make the best of whatever it throws at you.

As far as the baseball related impacts I think I won't comment this time around since I commented more than enough in the previous forays into this subject.

North Carolina had an October 15 cut off until just a few years ago. Now it is Sept 1st.

It's a gamble - to hold back a child because they may be more athletically mature - is such a remote possibility why do it? I do believe there are some very valid reasons for doing holding a child back, but not many.

This is an interesting topic.

I don't think you can tell at kindergarten age whether there is any "bang for the buck" in holding kids back. But I have seen two specific instances, one of which is my own son, where there would have been a clearly different pattern (much for the better) in high school if he had been delayed by a year. Both instances involve kids who are late maturers. And by this I mean boys who are 8 inches taller as seniors than they were as freshman, and who are about 50% heavier (and still thin).

Where we are, the few parents who make this adjustment sometimes do it at about the 8th grade level. They send the kid to private school for a year (to repeat 8th grade) and then re-enroll him in public school as a 9th grader one year behind his original group. It costs you a years private tuition to do this.

Under rules in our state, once you start 9th grade there is no way to do the one year private school holding pattern and then come back with the same eligibility. Your four year clock is running when you start 9th grade, so all deferrals have to take place before that. Of course, you can always leave the public school after 9th grade and just spend the next four years in prep school, but that requires some serious $ outlay and is not available to most....although more than a few have done it.