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quote "it didn't happen, it just didn't happen"
I wonder if he knew he would have to appear in the sub-committee when he did the interview and if he would have done the interview?
Okay, did you believe him or not? I sincerely do hope he is telling the truth.
no doubt he worked hard. but for a guy so adament about not harming his body, he sure did put a few cocktails in it. but it was for the pain? didn't really give me the warm fuzzy. but we'll see.
It helped me, I hope.
And yes, I called my friend, Tim Kurkjian.
I guess the news is Clemens is retired, again.
“Maybe it’s that I find it hard to forgive the follies and vices of others, or the offenses against me. My good opinion, once lost, is lost forever.” – Pride & Prejudice, Jane Austen.
And yes, I called my friend, Tim Kurkjian.
I guess the news is Clemens is retired, again.
“Maybe it’s that I find it hard to forgive the follies and vices of others, or the offenses against me. My good opinion, once lost, is lost forever.” – Pride & Prejudice, Jane Austen.
Jerseydad,
I hope he is telling the truth too - but I believe he is lying.
I think he is doing exactly what he has to do to protect himself.
And when it is all over - it is really hard for me to care either way about a guy that made a couple hundred million playing a game - and using his legal resources to guide him through the maze.
For me - it has gotten to a point where I just dont care anymore about any of these guys. They are multi-milllionaires - and they need no help from any of us.
And none of them are calling me and asking how I am doing. LOL
They can say and do what they want (as long as they dont lie to a Federal Grand Jury like Barry) - and just get on with their lives and families and their millions.
IMO
I hope he is telling the truth too - but I believe he is lying.
I think he is doing exactly what he has to do to protect himself.
And when it is all over - it is really hard for me to care either way about a guy that made a couple hundred million playing a game - and using his legal resources to guide him through the maze.
For me - it has gotten to a point where I just dont care anymore about any of these guys. They are multi-milllionaires - and they need no help from any of us.
And none of them are calling me and asking how I am doing. LOL
They can say and do what they want (as long as they dont lie to a Federal Grand Jury like Barry) - and just get on with their lives and families and their millions.
IMO
Agreed, no doubt he is a very hard worker. Admits to Vioxx, B-12, Lidocaine, other drugs for pain. So he admits he used all kinds of legal drugs, apparently lots and lots of Vioxx, but had "too much respect for his body" for steroids or HGH? Please....
Kind of like J.R. on Dallas offering Bobby Ewing's girl friend $10,000 to leave town. She says yes. He says "How about $5000?" She says "What do you think I am?" J.R. tells her "Honey, we've established what you are, now we're negotiating the price."
The Rocket will and has used drugs to help him perform. The question is how far did he go?
If anyone has a piece of hard evidence out there, and something tells me there is more that we haven't seen, the Rocket will fizzle.
For appearance, I'd give him a B, for credibility, I'd give him a C, for his response to the lie detector question, D- (He obviously didn't expect that one for some reason).
Kind of like J.R. on Dallas offering Bobby Ewing's girl friend $10,000 to leave town. She says yes. He says "How about $5000?" She says "What do you think I am?" J.R. tells her "Honey, we've established what you are, now we're negotiating the price."
The Rocket will and has used drugs to help him perform. The question is how far did he go?
If anyone has a piece of hard evidence out there, and something tells me there is more that we haven't seen, the Rocket will fizzle.
For appearance, I'd give him a B, for credibility, I'd give him a C, for his response to the lie detector question, D- (He obviously didn't expect that one for some reason).
Hokie - his facial reaction/response to the lie detector question was real bad.
IMO.
IMO.
Mike Wallace looked almost as uncomfortable asking that question as RC looked answering.
I am not going to throw stones but it did not seem like a good interview for him.
From the book of James:
From the book of James:
quote:But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath; but your yes is to be yes, and your no, no, so that you may not fall under judgment.
He looks like he's dropped 20 pounds. Nutrisystems no doubt. I'm sure an ad campaign is near. Maybe just a change in his "training". I've had the displeasure of meeting him. If he didn't use PED's he's merely on the losing end of Karma. So either way round and round.
quote:Originally posted by spizzlepop:
Mike Wallace looked almost as uncomfortable asking that question as RC looked answering.
Maybe he saw the game where he was giving back Piazza's bat to him in a friendly gesture!
...call me naive....but I'm one who believes him. I've never met the guy but one things for sure, his reputation is one that has never been questioned til now and his work ethic speaks volumes. RC in every stretch of the word(s) has been a team player and tremendous teammate. The fact that he chose to take so much vioxx for his pains to better the team's success over his own personal health talks loudly of the kind of competitor he was and is. Does that mean that he would take it as far as taking HGH or steroids? I'm one who believes he has not....and if I remember correctly one is innocent til otherwise proven guilty and one person making statements to save his own azz does not constitute enough for me to believe his guilt.
real simple have roger draw blood and get olympic style drug test
I want to believe him. The fact that Andy Pettite admitted to it bothers me a lot. I hope both him an Macnamee appear before Congress.
I'm not sure what else he can do.
Bond's body changed, Clemens did not so I need more proof.
I'm not sure what else he can do.
Bond's body changed, Clemens did not so I need more proof.
i'm liking the hitman that was on before roger.at least he admitted it.
Let it all play out folks--- purportedly Roger and McNamee had an"emotional" phone converstaion on Friday---interesting turns are coming
Personally I liked the interview, and I am not a RC fan,and think there is more to come now after the Friday situation
Personally I liked the interview, and I am not a RC fan,and think there is more to come now after the Friday situation
quote:Roger and McNamee
Ya Think?
Clemens filed the suit Sunday night in Harris County District Court in Texas, listing 15 alleged statements McNamee made to the baseball drug investigator George Mitchell. Clemens claimed the statements were "untrue and defamatory."
"According to McNamee, he originally made his allegations to federal authorities after being threatened with criminal prosecution if he didn't implicate Clemens," according to the 14-page petition, obtained early Monday by The Associated Press.
Clemens asked that damages be determined by a jury.
"Clemens' good reputation has been severely injured," the suit said. "McNamee's false allegations have also caused Clemens to suffer mental anguish, shame, public humiliation and embarrassment."
McNamee's lawyers are likely to remove the case to U.S. District Court in Houston, since Clemens and McNamee reside in different states. McNamee also could ask that the suit be moved to federal court in New York.
Sounds like McNamee's attorney's are covering his back-side.
I've got to go with Roger's attorney's on this one.
Can we bring Bart Giamatti's integrity back to the game?
"They are acts of cheating that are "intended to alter the very conditions of play to favor one person." Such acts "are secretive, covert acts that strike at and seek to undermine the basic foundation of any contest declaring the winner -- that all participants play under identical rules and conditions."
He sure sounded like someone bitter and trying to cover everything up. Now he has issued a lawsuit and this will drag out for years. McNammee went in and told the truth knowing that if he didn't he could face prison time. Now someone wants to sue him for speaking the truth. So now they will both go to court, go to congress, go to the court of public opinion...... all because one person chose not to tell the truth. Is it really worth it?
I believe him
Dad04,
Care to expand on that? Probably a lot more interesting than the "he says, she says" going on.
Care to expand on that? Probably a lot more interesting than the "he says, she says" going on.
Where is the concrete proof????
I would like to see something solid besides a guy avoiding prison time. How did it work? The more names the less time??? Theres alot more to be seen yet. I think if RC drug this out further he must feel pretty sure there is no proof.
In the interview last night they stated that McNammees situation and consequences were enough to make him tell the truth. So is there proof we have not seen? Or is it all on his good word?
Lets see how it unfolds. This could have all kinds of twists and turns.
I would like to see something solid besides a guy avoiding prison time. How did it work? The more names the less time??? Theres alot more to be seen yet. I think if RC drug this out further he must feel pretty sure there is no proof.
In the interview last night they stated that McNammees situation and consequences were enough to make him tell the truth. So is there proof we have not seen? Or is it all on his good word?
Lets see how it unfolds. This could have all kinds of twists and turns.
quote:Originally posted by CADad:
Dad04,
Care to expand on that? Probably a lot more interesting than the "he says, she says" going on.
I met him away from baseball, during a previous career situation. I dealt with dozens of celebrity types in my job, mostly professional athletes, but plenty of rock stars and actors. Most were polite ladies and gentlemen, just folks. A few were not. He led the latter group.
I once went to court naively believing the truth mattered. When hard evidence doesn't exist it comes down to the more convincing story. Clemens doesn't need to be proven innocent. He only needs to be proven not quilty. His lawsuit allows him to legitimately take the 5th in the congressional hearing stating a response could damage his future trial. Clemens will not be lying before a grand jury.
All this said, I don't know if Clemens guilty or not. But it's not like McNamee is a saint. I started watching the interview last night and got pulled away. I've only watched a few minutes. As a person who had interviewed many people for jobs I watch body language. Clemens swallowed/gulped on a couple of questions. That's usually a bad sign. Sometimes it's just nerves. But I'll bet the interview was set up with approved questions.
All this said, I don't know if Clemens guilty or not. But it's not like McNamee is a saint. I started watching the interview last night and got pulled away. I've only watched a few minutes. As a person who had interviewed many people for jobs I watch body language. Clemens swallowed/gulped on a couple of questions. That's usually a bad sign. Sometimes it's just nerves. But I'll bet the interview was set up with approved questions.
bill o'reilly body language girl I am sure will be commenting on clemens interview
Maybe some of you legal types can answer this. A friend told me that if RC did take steroids and HGH and he ever got called to testify before a grand jury or congressional sub-committee that he would file a lawsuit against Macnamee but that the suit would later be settled out of court. Then he could refuse to answer in the hearing due to his testimony impacting a pending lawsuit and not have to plead the 5th (like Mcguire) because that pretty much means you're guilty.
Is this the true? And I ask, of course, because RC may now have to go before a sub-committee and he has reportedly filed a lawsuit. If he fails to respond truthfully before the sub-committee, does he risk being convicted of perjury if he were later to be found to have lied (al la Bonds)? Does he have to answer questions asked?
Is this the true? And I ask, of course, because RC may now have to go before a sub-committee and he has reportedly filed a lawsuit. If he fails to respond truthfully before the sub-committee, does he risk being convicted of perjury if he were later to be found to have lied (al la Bonds)? Does he have to answer questions asked?
Dad04,
I know Roger Clemens. You might have had a lot different experience than I have had, but I think he is a good person who really loves kids.
His son played for Houston Heat in the WWBA tournament and people were actually going into the dugout to get his autograph. He never once turned anyone away or even act like he was irritated.
I could tell more stories of things Clemens has done to help others.
My son was a teammate fo a short while with him and was with him for three spring trainings. He has nothing but good things to say about Clemens and how he treated young team mates.
I don't know if he is guilty or not of using steroids. But I still think this whole Mitchell Investigation was a "Witch Hunt" that would have been considered a complete failure without nailing some big name.
A while back I wondered why they didn't tell the players on the list that they were going to be named and get their side of the story. Someone then mentioned that they did give those named players an opportunity to talk.
The one thing in last nights interview that stood out to me was when Clemens said he of course would have tried to protect his name if he knew it was going to be in the report.
Is he lying about that? He also mentioned that he was notified early on, but the players union was telling everyone not to respond. That was long before he knew his name would be listed.
I don't think he is lying about that because it just doesn't make sense. Surely he would have known what a big problem it was going to be if his name was listed. It doesn’t take a lot of foresight to figure out it would end up being just as it has turned out if his name was listed. Does anyone think he would deny all of this now and wouldn’t rather have talked directly to the Mitchell team to try to get his name cleared off that list. Before it was released.
Once again, I’m not saying guilty or not guilty. Just that this whole 20 month investigation missed more than they accomplished and therefore I don’t think they did a whole lot in the time given and the expense involved. They did need a big name… That was the major goal… They got one!
Others mention the Andy Pettitte admission. Why does everyone think that Clemens would know that Pettitte took HGH in Tampa while Clemens was in New York. Not saying he wouldn’t know, but I can see how he might not know. Unless Andy called Roger and said Roger I’m taking some HGH down here in Tampa this week.
There has been a lot of damage done here. Wouldn’t all of this be sickening if somehow Roger Clemens was innocent. I’m not even sure it is possible for him to prove innocence even if he wins law suits. The damage is done. If he is guilty, he is guilty. It doesn’t mean he is some kind of monster.
BTW, I talked to Raffy Palmeiro in Florida this week. He is also a good guy.
No matter what any of these people might have done or not done. I hope we can turn the page and clean up the game without turning this into a circus. I’m tired of politicians and others making a name for themselves over this stuff. I’m tired of hearing about a new revealing book by Canseco.
I also don’t understand the mentality involved in thinking it is better when someone admits taking steroids compared to those who deny it. Is it better somehow if someone admits to blowing up the building? Canseco of course admitted and didn’t mind taking others with him. Let’s face it… He used steroids and he is an admitted leader of the pack in getting others involved. Now he makes money naming names and some actually think this guy is some kind of hero. He not only used, he promoted them. And got others to use them. He is not the solution; he was a big part of the problem and making the stuff popular. And it really ****es me off that he is allowed to profit because of that. What a lowlife! Now a new book with new names. Did he forget about those names in the first book?
The good thing about all this is things should change for the better and hopefully it will help make illegal PEDs obsolete in baseball. It is moving in the right direction. I just hope we don’t end up hanging some innocent people along the way.
My prediction is… Before all is said and done… There are going to be some things revealed about the Mitchell investigation that are going to cause quite a stir. Cheating can take place in many other arenas beside baseball.
McNammee in telling the truth… claimed he doesn’t know where Clement got the steroids. That means if he really was telling the truth, then someone out there sold or gave steroids to Clemens. How much time and money would it cost to have Mitchell’s team to track this down? After all, Roger Clemens is not really a guy that can sneak around much without being noticed. Was there a dishonest doctor involved? Surely he didn’t buy it off the street. Probably paid for somehow, how? There has to be a trail seeing it happened (according to McNammee) more than in one place and one time. If he is guilty there is someone who can answer a lot of questions to prove he is guilty. If no one other than McNammee exists, will the general public believe Clemens. Doesn’t look like it!
I don’t know if Roger Clemens is guilty. I do know that it seems like most people think he is. I did like hearing him say things like steroids can harm you and he would never use them. Whether he actually meant that or not, that is exactly the message that needs to be sent. To me the “cheating” argument just isn’t going to be enough to cause big changes. Of course, the stiff testing and stiff penalty argument makes the most sense. 10 game suspensions won’t do much. Then there is the biggest detriment which is the disgrace it can bring. I just don’t think it should ever be at the cost of an innocent person.
I know Roger Clemens. You might have had a lot different experience than I have had, but I think he is a good person who really loves kids.
His son played for Houston Heat in the WWBA tournament and people were actually going into the dugout to get his autograph. He never once turned anyone away or even act like he was irritated.
I could tell more stories of things Clemens has done to help others.
My son was a teammate fo a short while with him and was with him for three spring trainings. He has nothing but good things to say about Clemens and how he treated young team mates.
I don't know if he is guilty or not of using steroids. But I still think this whole Mitchell Investigation was a "Witch Hunt" that would have been considered a complete failure without nailing some big name.
A while back I wondered why they didn't tell the players on the list that they were going to be named and get their side of the story. Someone then mentioned that they did give those named players an opportunity to talk.
The one thing in last nights interview that stood out to me was when Clemens said he of course would have tried to protect his name if he knew it was going to be in the report.
Is he lying about that? He also mentioned that he was notified early on, but the players union was telling everyone not to respond. That was long before he knew his name would be listed.
I don't think he is lying about that because it just doesn't make sense. Surely he would have known what a big problem it was going to be if his name was listed. It doesn’t take a lot of foresight to figure out it would end up being just as it has turned out if his name was listed. Does anyone think he would deny all of this now and wouldn’t rather have talked directly to the Mitchell team to try to get his name cleared off that list. Before it was released.
Once again, I’m not saying guilty or not guilty. Just that this whole 20 month investigation missed more than they accomplished and therefore I don’t think they did a whole lot in the time given and the expense involved. They did need a big name… That was the major goal… They got one!
Others mention the Andy Pettitte admission. Why does everyone think that Clemens would know that Pettitte took HGH in Tampa while Clemens was in New York. Not saying he wouldn’t know, but I can see how he might not know. Unless Andy called Roger and said Roger I’m taking some HGH down here in Tampa this week.
There has been a lot of damage done here. Wouldn’t all of this be sickening if somehow Roger Clemens was innocent. I’m not even sure it is possible for him to prove innocence even if he wins law suits. The damage is done. If he is guilty, he is guilty. It doesn’t mean he is some kind of monster.
BTW, I talked to Raffy Palmeiro in Florida this week. He is also a good guy.
No matter what any of these people might have done or not done. I hope we can turn the page and clean up the game without turning this into a circus. I’m tired of politicians and others making a name for themselves over this stuff. I’m tired of hearing about a new revealing book by Canseco.
I also don’t understand the mentality involved in thinking it is better when someone admits taking steroids compared to those who deny it. Is it better somehow if someone admits to blowing up the building? Canseco of course admitted and didn’t mind taking others with him. Let’s face it… He used steroids and he is an admitted leader of the pack in getting others involved. Now he makes money naming names and some actually think this guy is some kind of hero. He not only used, he promoted them. And got others to use them. He is not the solution; he was a big part of the problem and making the stuff popular. And it really ****es me off that he is allowed to profit because of that. What a lowlife! Now a new book with new names. Did he forget about those names in the first book?
The good thing about all this is things should change for the better and hopefully it will help make illegal PEDs obsolete in baseball. It is moving in the right direction. I just hope we don’t end up hanging some innocent people along the way.
My prediction is… Before all is said and done… There are going to be some things revealed about the Mitchell investigation that are going to cause quite a stir. Cheating can take place in many other arenas beside baseball.
McNammee in telling the truth… claimed he doesn’t know where Clement got the steroids. That means if he really was telling the truth, then someone out there sold or gave steroids to Clemens. How much time and money would it cost to have Mitchell’s team to track this down? After all, Roger Clemens is not really a guy that can sneak around much without being noticed. Was there a dishonest doctor involved? Surely he didn’t buy it off the street. Probably paid for somehow, how? There has to be a trail seeing it happened (according to McNammee) more than in one place and one time. If he is guilty there is someone who can answer a lot of questions to prove he is guilty. If no one other than McNammee exists, will the general public believe Clemens. Doesn’t look like it!
I don’t know if Roger Clemens is guilty. I do know that it seems like most people think he is. I did like hearing him say things like steroids can harm you and he would never use them. Whether he actually meant that or not, that is exactly the message that needs to be sent. To me the “cheating” argument just isn’t going to be enough to cause big changes. Of course, the stiff testing and stiff penalty argument makes the most sense. 10 game suspensions won’t do much. Then there is the biggest detriment which is the disgrace it can bring. I just don’t think it should ever be at the cost of an innocent person.
I have always liked, admired and enjoyed watching Roger Clemens. I hope, somehow, he is shown to be innocent. That is going to be hard to do I suspect.
I think there's a tendency to think he did it because so many players before him acted in a similar way...Rose, Bonds, Palmeiro. I think we fans have an inclination to say, "oh no, here we go again!"
I have friends whose kids have gone to school with Bonds' kids, been to his house, played basketball in the backyard with him, been driven to dances, etc... by him. They swear he's a great guy who loves kids too. I have no reason to not believe them. Does it mean he's innocent? Guilty? So why is virtually no one defending him? Some have said because of his race. I generally think thats BS, but could it be true? Is it because he's not a likable guy with the media?
I used to know Neil Armstrong when I was a kid. He was a friend of my father. Sometimes the media didn't treat him too well either because he was "aloof" and "too private." I can tell you, to me and my brother and sisters, he was a great guy!
Beware of how the media portrays someone and linking their portrayal to guilt (or innocence?).
I didn't think the interview on 60 minutes helped or hurt Clemens. At first, it reminded me a lot of Pete Rose's early interviews after his suspension. Then I found myself feeling a soft spot for him as the interview progressed. I thought his answer to the lie detector question was fine, not defensive nor surprised. Its about how I'd probably answer if anyone asked me to take one on any subject. 'Can you give me one that will be accurate?' Thats about how I'd feel if I were innocent.
Isn't all we baseball-obsessed fans want is for it to be fixed? I mean the PED abuse problem? Find a way to fix it without nailing anyone in the past and I would be a happy camper.
I think there's a tendency to think he did it because so many players before him acted in a similar way...Rose, Bonds, Palmeiro. I think we fans have an inclination to say, "oh no, here we go again!"
I have friends whose kids have gone to school with Bonds' kids, been to his house, played basketball in the backyard with him, been driven to dances, etc... by him. They swear he's a great guy who loves kids too. I have no reason to not believe them. Does it mean he's innocent? Guilty? So why is virtually no one defending him? Some have said because of his race. I generally think thats BS, but could it be true? Is it because he's not a likable guy with the media?
I used to know Neil Armstrong when I was a kid. He was a friend of my father. Sometimes the media didn't treat him too well either because he was "aloof" and "too private." I can tell you, to me and my brother and sisters, he was a great guy!
Beware of how the media portrays someone and linking their portrayal to guilt (or innocence?).
I didn't think the interview on 60 minutes helped or hurt Clemens. At first, it reminded me a lot of Pete Rose's early interviews after his suspension. Then I found myself feeling a soft spot for him as the interview progressed. I thought his answer to the lie detector question was fine, not defensive nor surprised. Its about how I'd probably answer if anyone asked me to take one on any subject. 'Can you give me one that will be accurate?' Thats about how I'd feel if I were innocent.
Isn't all we baseball-obsessed fans want is for it to be fixed? I mean the PED abuse problem? Find a way to fix it without nailing anyone in the past and I would be a happy camper.
quote:If he is guilty, he is guilty. It doesn’t mean he is some kind of monster.
You're right PG, it doesn't mean he is a monster.
But what it does do is lend some credibility to the report and (b) regardless what he has done for baseball, makes him a liar and untrustworthy.
Of course if he is innocent,(which I hope he is) then he is still the role model which my son and many others have grown up admiring. To be quite honest, if he would have admitted to it (if guilty) up front like Andy, then I still would look at him as a role model to an extent.
You also state ". I’m tired of politicians and others making a name for themselves over this stuff". This may or may not be true about the politicians, and I hate when big brother gets involved in things but, Major League baseball, it's owners and the union have refused to take it upon themselves to clean it up. I for one for my sons sake am thankful that someone is trying to get to the bottom of this. If it takes tarnishing some of our hero's, so be it.
I believe him and will stand by him until someone proves me wrong.
It is a 44 MILLION DOLLAR witch hunt and guess what - it could happen to you.
It is a 44 MILLION DOLLAR witch hunt and guess what - it could happen to you.
Justbaseball,
If he is guilty and he lied and they nail him. The end result is a guy who used PEDs and lied. We won’t lose any sleep over it! And… He is in big trouble!
But if he really is innocent and can’t prove it but this investigation has tainted his name for eternity. He might have trouble sleeping at night! And… We are all in trouble!
If guilty… Not very big problem for anyone but him.
If Innocent… We all have a very serious problem.
It’s real important that we get this right IMO
BTW, If Clemens really knows everything that Pettitte did, doesn’t it stand to reason that Pettitte would then also know everything Clemens did? At some point Andy Pettitte is going to be forced to talk about this. What is Andy going to say, after all he didn’t claim he was innocent? Under oath, would he lie, when he admitted himself?
Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume the same person provided these illegal PEDs to both Pettitte and Clemens? Sure seems like that investigation left a lot of stones unturned.
theygrowupfast,
I agree that by far the main concern is to stop this for future players.
Actually it was MLB that called for and financed the Mitchell investigation. I'm not worried about tarnishing any hero, I'm more concerned with tarnishing someone who could be innocent. If there is one chance in a hundred that Roger Clemens is innocent, it's a crying shame to see his reputation ruined.
There seems to be many who are 100% sure he is guilty. Based on the report! Is anyone sure the report is 100% accurate? Or those who talked are 100% honest?
If he is guilty and he lied and they nail him. The end result is a guy who used PEDs and lied. We won’t lose any sleep over it! And… He is in big trouble!
But if he really is innocent and can’t prove it but this investigation has tainted his name for eternity. He might have trouble sleeping at night! And… We are all in trouble!
If guilty… Not very big problem for anyone but him.
If Innocent… We all have a very serious problem.
It’s real important that we get this right IMO
BTW, If Clemens really knows everything that Pettitte did, doesn’t it stand to reason that Pettitte would then also know everything Clemens did? At some point Andy Pettitte is going to be forced to talk about this. What is Andy going to say, after all he didn’t claim he was innocent? Under oath, would he lie, when he admitted himself?
Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume the same person provided these illegal PEDs to both Pettitte and Clemens? Sure seems like that investigation left a lot of stones unturned.
theygrowupfast,
I agree that by far the main concern is to stop this for future players.
Actually it was MLB that called for and financed the Mitchell investigation. I'm not worried about tarnishing any hero, I'm more concerned with tarnishing someone who could be innocent. If there is one chance in a hundred that Roger Clemens is innocent, it's a crying shame to see his reputation ruined.
There seems to be many who are 100% sure he is guilty. Based on the report! Is anyone sure the report is 100% accurate? Or those who talked are 100% honest?
Whatever personal feelings you may have for Roger, his talk about how drugs are bad for you and the new testing program will do absolutely nothing about this problem. The new battle ground is HGH and to identify it requires blood testing. The union is fighting that test every step of the way.
It simply amazes me how people will go after the investigation and trash their methods and motives but give the people who use the drugs and stone wall the investigation every benefit of the doubt.
Sorry but you won't find me in the pity Roger camp.
It simply amazes me how people will go after the investigation and trash their methods and motives but give the people who use the drugs and stone wall the investigation every benefit of the doubt.
Sorry but you won't find me in the pity Roger camp.
ig
I do not think it is a "pity Roger camp"
I think PG is right on--we are currently crucifying a man without any basis other than what we read and hear----the big question is will we ever know the real truth?
A sluggo noted "it could happen to you"
By the way Roger has a press conference at 5PM on ESPN
I do not think it is a "pity Roger camp"
I think PG is right on--we are currently crucifying a man without any basis other than what we read and hear----the big question is will we ever know the real truth?
A sluggo noted "it could happen to you"
By the way Roger has a press conference at 5PM on ESPN
PGStaff - I'm really not sure why you directed your comments to me? I don't see anything I said that is in conflict with your comments.
I am FAR-less interested in nailing someone who used PEDs than in fixing the problem. And I genuinely feel badly for RC if he is innocent. Very tough spot to be in.
No big deal, just wondering if I poorly wrote my thoughts or something?
I am FAR-less interested in nailing someone who used PEDs than in fixing the problem. And I genuinely feel badly for RC if he is innocent. Very tough spot to be in.
No big deal, just wondering if I poorly wrote my thoughts or something?
Just a thought
What if Roger is found to be totally innocent---does he turn around and sue MLB/Mitchell for defamation et al ??
What if Roger is found to be totally innocent---does he turn around and sue MLB/Mitchell for defamation et al ??
Yes Sluggo it could. It does to people everyday in the real world and most do not have the millions to defend themselves.
PGSTaff-What would you do. In the real world there are innocent people who suffer in one form or another.
That's the way our justice system operates. Just like other allegations in the real world, some will say he is innocent and some will say he is guilty based on what they have heard. They have a witness who said he saw first hand (actually did it) players using band substances. Eventually this will end up in court and they will get to the bottom of it.
Here in Texas a woman picked out a man in a lineup as the one that raped her. Twelve years later (two weeks ago) he was released because they proved he was innocent. It is sad, very sad that innocent people have to pay a price before (or for) the real story to come out and have justice served.
In Baseballs case, I'm sure there are some innocent names being thrown in with the guilty. Hopefully in the long run justice will prevail and changes will be made. That's just the way our system is ran.
PGSTaff-What would you do. In the real world there are innocent people who suffer in one form or another.
That's the way our justice system operates. Just like other allegations in the real world, some will say he is innocent and some will say he is guilty based on what they have heard. They have a witness who said he saw first hand (actually did it) players using band substances. Eventually this will end up in court and they will get to the bottom of it.
Here in Texas a woman picked out a man in a lineup as the one that raped her. Twelve years later (two weeks ago) he was released because they proved he was innocent. It is sad, very sad that innocent people have to pay a price before (or for) the real story to come out and have justice served.
In Baseballs case, I'm sure there are some innocent names being thrown in with the guilty. Hopefully in the long run justice will prevail and changes will be made. That's just the way our system is ran.
mlb.com Clemens article
Here's another take on it. Many sides to the story. I think the butler did it.
Here's another take on it. Many sides to the story. I think the butler did it.