Did anyone see that kid in the LLWS throw in the low 80's
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
yeah, that couldn't have been very much fun for the 12 year old catcher from 40 some feet away.
-Kevin
-Kevin
While Darnell Coles is sitting in the booth blabbing on about how LL does "everything they can" to promote safety for the players. Funny but 46/60 doesn't seem like a very safe field dimension for a 12u team to me. Not to mention the excitement of check-swing dingers. 
joe91,
Yes, the #1 guy from the Georgia team (a lefty) was consistently hitting 80 and 81 on the gun. The ESPN guys were commenting in the 5th inning that he had lost some on the fastball. It was coming in at 76-78 MPH!
Yes, the #1 guy from the Georgia team (a lefty) was consistently hitting 80 and 81 on the gun. The ESPN guys were commenting in the 5th inning that he had lost some on the fastball. It was coming in at 76-78 MPH!
One thing that continues to rankle me is when the announcers give the 60'6" equivalent of the pitch from 46'.
Yes, in terms of reaction time it is like facing a 90+ mph fastball. However, it's not the same. I think I remember from physics that a ball moving 90 mph with approximately the same mass as a ball moving 75 mph will carry greater momentum (mass x velocity).
Not taking away anything from these kids that are throwing that hard, and the batters that are trying to hit the ball.
Yes, in terms of reaction time it is like facing a 90+ mph fastball. However, it's not the same. I think I remember from physics that a ball moving 90 mph with approximately the same mass as a ball moving 75 mph will carry greater momentum (mass x velocity).
Not taking away anything from these kids that are throwing that hard, and the batters that are trying to hit the ball.
That was amazing. The kid had good mechanics, too, so hopefully he can stay healthy as he grows. Plus, he's a lefty! You have to wonder where he'll be in 6/8 years.
But about Little League: the better players of this era have clearly outgrown the 60' diamond. Instead of addressing this as most other leagues have (going to 70' dimensions in the main at that age), Little League backed up the age eligibility by 4 months without adjusting the field dimensions. Now you have even more kids than before who are well into puberty, competing on the same dinky field against pre-pubescent children.
I don't know if the GA pitcher is a "young" 12 or almost 13. But obviously he is way too advanced to be on a 60' field.
As for the check-swing homers: This is what Little League wants. They have apparently given all the teams in the regionals brand new Stealths to use. Then, guess what? Older kids with new, high tech bats, lots of HR's, lots of tape-measure shots. In the AZ-CA game, a kid from Fresno hit one that must've gone 300 feet! It sure generates interest in the ESPN telecasts, and SportsCenter highlights (which are basically commercials for the game telecasts).
IMHO, Little League has sold the kids down the river in search of TV ratings. My son stayed in Little League until he was 13, but if we were coming through now, I think we would leave after age 10 or 11.
If they really cared about the kids, they would go back to wood bats. But instead, they take Easton's sponsorship money and let them display their bats all over the TV hitting those monster shots. That tells you all you need to know.
But about Little League: the better players of this era have clearly outgrown the 60' diamond. Instead of addressing this as most other leagues have (going to 70' dimensions in the main at that age), Little League backed up the age eligibility by 4 months without adjusting the field dimensions. Now you have even more kids than before who are well into puberty, competing on the same dinky field against pre-pubescent children.
I don't know if the GA pitcher is a "young" 12 or almost 13. But obviously he is way too advanced to be on a 60' field.
As for the check-swing homers: This is what Little League wants. They have apparently given all the teams in the regionals brand new Stealths to use. Then, guess what? Older kids with new, high tech bats, lots of HR's, lots of tape-measure shots. In the AZ-CA game, a kid from Fresno hit one that must've gone 300 feet! It sure generates interest in the ESPN telecasts, and SportsCenter highlights (which are basically commercials for the game telecasts).
IMHO, Little League has sold the kids down the river in search of TV ratings. My son stayed in Little League until he was 13, but if we were coming through now, I think we would leave after age 10 or 11.
If they really cared about the kids, they would go back to wood bats. But instead, they take Easton's sponsorship money and let them display their bats all over the TV hitting those monster shots. That tells you all you need to know.
I just think they need to move the bases and mound back.These kids ARE ready to play on a little bit bigger of a field IMO.
Fun to watch though.Little League was always fun when I played it.
Fun to watch though.Little League was always fun when I played it.
quote:Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
That was amazing. The kid had good mechanics, too, so hopefully he can stay healthy as he grows. Plus, he's a lefty! You have to wonder where he'll be in 6/8 years.
He may only be at 84. Or may not be in baseball at all. Way too difficult trying to project a 12YO.
The quickness of the LL game on the small field makes it interesting. The kids throw alot of strikes and challenge hitters, which is not usually tyhe case when they move back on the big field. Alot of the attraction is watching some of the best 12 year olds at their game on their field, too small as it is.
I saw the lefty pitch last weekend. He is very good. He is athletic and looks like he'll adjust to the big field quickly. I'll make sure I watch that Georgia lefty when he pitches again.
I saw the lefty pitch last weekend. He is very good. He is athletic and looks like he'll adjust to the big field quickly. I'll make sure I watch that Georgia lefty when he pitches again.
I agree about the field size and the size of the players, etc. but I know from my past experiences in LL that the game is just plain fun no matter what happens. If a team is bigger or stronger than you, then you play harder to beat them. And if you don't, you're still laughing with your teammates and havin ice cream from the Good Humor truck 20 minutes after the game ends. All the TV and stuff, IMO, just makes it that much more fun for these kids. I know at least a half-dozen kids that are now 16, 17 and 18 years old who participated in the Little League World Series with the Harlem LL team in 2002 and the Rolando Paulino team of 2001. All of these kids, including Almonte who was 14, have said that the LLWS experience was like nothing else and the best time of their lives bar none. And I'm sure if you ask those mid-50's men sitting in the stands in Bristol, Conn. last night they'd say the same thing, when they won it all in 1964 it was all about fun. So whether or not the field is too small or the players are too big, the point is that the players themselves don't care, they just want to play.
midlo dad,
13+ I believe. Possibly one of those who is repeating his 12yo year due to the age limit change. It should be possible to check birth dates on the LL website at the end of the week.
Texan,
You are right but generally the hard throwers continue to be hard throwers. The kid from the 2004 LLWS team, low to mid 70s, is now throwing low to mid-80s 2 years later. He's probably close to finished growing but he's probably going to continue gaining on the fastball for a couple more years. He's playing in the PONY WS right now. I don't know if he'll achieve pro velocity but he'll almost certainly be a good HS pitcher at the least.
13+ I believe. Possibly one of those who is repeating his 12yo year due to the age limit change. It should be possible to check birth dates on the LL website at the end of the week.
Texan,
You are right but generally the hard throwers continue to be hard throwers. The kid from the 2004 LLWS team, low to mid 70s, is now throwing low to mid-80s 2 years later. He's probably close to finished growing but he's probably going to continue gaining on the fastball for a couple more years. He's playing in the PONY WS right now. I don't know if he'll achieve pro velocity but he'll almost certainly be a good HS pitcher at the least.
JH, I agree with everything you say, but it would be just as fun at larger dimensions and/or with wood bats -- and higher quality baseball, played more safely.
I am pretty sure I heard the announcers saying that they had moved the fences back in the finals. I know the regional games were played at 205 but at least the finals will require a little more effort to get the ball out.
ESPN + LLWS = $$$
I think I'd much rather watch the AAU or USSSA World Series on TV.
I think I'd much rather watch the AAU or USSSA World Series on TV.
I personally thinked the kid peeked early, he had a huge jump, as have most of the good Pitchers in the LLWS, then he'll slow down as he gets older
Dad04,
If this were a game truely played by 12 yr olds it might be different. But virually all the top players for all these all-star teams are 13 yr olds. LL actually should have crept the age back to 12 not increase it a few months to allow even more 13's to play.
I know from what I read in the paper today, that the Portsmouth NH #1 pitcher is one of the kids getting the 5th year. I know if my son had been allowed to play a 5th year, he would have been virtually unhitable. He played LL & AAU at 12 and competed in regional & national tournaments. That following summmer he was aproximately 5'9" and a lefty.
We see the same thing in American Legion Ball. A few years back they modified the eligibility rules to allow some kids who had actually played thier freshman collegiate season to come back and play legion. This year the pushed it back so that if turned 19 during the 2006 calendar year, you could play.
That extra year, at any of these levels is huge!
From our expereinces at with AAU at 12, I can guarantee that the quality of baseball would be great. Add in leading, true base stealing and having to hold runners on, and you will have very exciting baseball.
Exciting baseball is not just seeing a 5'8", 160 lb kid hit a ball 30 feet over a 205' fence.
or even worse, a 4'8", 85 lb kid bounce it off that same 205 foot fence. The bat technology and the kids skill level have simply outgrown the current playing field. Go to a larger field, where that 5'8" kid will still probably hit a HR occasionaly, but not 6 or 8 in 6 games.
Also the kids will develop onto better hitters when they begin to understand they are better off hitting a line drive in the gap on that bigger field than hitting that 230 foot fly out.
If this were a game truely played by 12 yr olds it might be different. But virually all the top players for all these all-star teams are 13 yr olds. LL actually should have crept the age back to 12 not increase it a few months to allow even more 13's to play.
I know from what I read in the paper today, that the Portsmouth NH #1 pitcher is one of the kids getting the 5th year. I know if my son had been allowed to play a 5th year, he would have been virtually unhitable. He played LL & AAU at 12 and competed in regional & national tournaments. That following summmer he was aproximately 5'9" and a lefty.
We see the same thing in American Legion Ball. A few years back they modified the eligibility rules to allow some kids who had actually played thier freshman collegiate season to come back and play legion. This year the pushed it back so that if turned 19 during the 2006 calendar year, you could play.
That extra year, at any of these levels is huge!
From our expereinces at with AAU at 12, I can guarantee that the quality of baseball would be great. Add in leading, true base stealing and having to hold runners on, and you will have very exciting baseball.
Exciting baseball is not just seeing a 5'8", 160 lb kid hit a ball 30 feet over a 205' fence.
or even worse, a 4'8", 85 lb kid bounce it off that same 205 foot fence. The bat technology and the kids skill level have simply outgrown the current playing field. Go to a larger field, where that 5'8" kid will still probably hit a HR occasionaly, but not 6 or 8 in 6 games.
Also the kids will develop onto better hitters when they begin to understand they are better off hitting a line drive in the gap on that bigger field than hitting that 230 foot fly out.
I don't think the kid has peaked at all. His mechanics look really solid and I see much room for improvement. Then again, just because he hasn't peaked doesn't mean he will. I've known many kids who had so much more in them that never fulfilled there talents. But hopefully this guy flourishes at the next level, he definetely has the talent for it. Lefty too. Wow.
It won't help to move the LL fences back until they do what every other baseball organization does: make center field deeper than left and right.
The way it is now, if you hit a liner off the CF wall, you're out if you try to stretch it into a double. The throw from left to third is 145', but from CF to second is only about 120'.
Good dimensions for this age would be 70/50 infield, 220 down the lines, 240 in the alleys, 260 to CF. Fewer homers, more doubles and triples.
But then, that wouldn't make enough highlight reel footage, would it?
P.S.
When was the last time you saw a successful, straight steal in the LLWS? Not a passed ball or a wild pitch, mind you, but a straight steal?
The way it is now, if you hit a liner off the CF wall, you're out if you try to stretch it into a double. The throw from left to third is 145', but from CF to second is only about 120'.
Good dimensions for this age would be 70/50 infield, 220 down the lines, 240 in the alleys, 260 to CF. Fewer homers, more doubles and triples.
But then, that wouldn't make enough highlight reel footage, would it?
P.S.
When was the last time you saw a successful, straight steal in the LLWS? Not a passed ball or a wild pitch, mind you, but a straight steal?
You cant even steal until the ball reaches the batter(most take off once the catcher has it)
Whats the point in that?Then ESPN sings praises to the catchers "cannon"
The bases need to be at 80ft.,and the mound a good 5-8ft back
Whats the point in that?Then ESPN sings praises to the catchers "cannon"
The bases need to be at 80ft.,and the mound a good 5-8ft back
One of the things I dislike about women's softball is that the size of the field, coupled with the speed and athleticism of the players, has severely reduced, or eliminated certain aspects of the game. Double-plays rarely happen. The middle infielders have little or no room for error on routine grounders. There aren't many hits in the gap. I have the same issue with LL (as it pertains to the 12 & 13s). I agree about deepening centerfield. I'd also like to see the bases lengthened to at least 70 feet for these 12 & 13s.
NHFDad
I appreciate you perspective. Centerfield does need to be deepened. The bases need to be put out to 70', especially if they are letting 13 year olds play, which I was not aware of. My son played AAU at 12 with the 70 foot bases on a softball field. It made the treansition to the 90' field relatively seamless.
On TV, for 90 minutes, I still like the speed of the LLWS. Sort of like raquetball v. tennis.
I appreciate you perspective. Centerfield does need to be deepened. The bases need to be put out to 70', especially if they are letting 13 year olds play, which I was not aware of. My son played AAU at 12 with the 70 foot bases on a softball field. It made the treansition to the 90' field relatively seamless.
On TV, for 90 minutes, I still like the speed of the LLWS. Sort of like raquetball v. tennis.
I’ve got to agree with everyone saying to make the field larger. My oldest son had the unique comparison of playing both LL & Pony baseball in his 11yo and 12yo years. Pony baseball is major league rules baseball with fences at 210 in the corners and 250 to center. I believe the bases were 70 and pitching was close to 50.
These dimensions allowed the kids to play real baseball. Leadoffs, stealing on the pitcher, learning to hold base runners, learning to hit cut offs that were more than 20 feet apart and hitting a legit home runs makes all the difference in the world. Not to mention that transition to the large field the next year is not quite as dramatic. I don't know why Cal Ripken and LL don't provide a better game for the players and fans. The game was so much better in Pony.
These dimensions allowed the kids to play real baseball. Leadoffs, stealing on the pitcher, learning to hold base runners, learning to hit cut offs that were more than 20 feet apart and hitting a legit home runs makes all the difference in the world. Not to mention that transition to the large field the next year is not quite as dramatic. I don't know why Cal Ripken and LL don't provide a better game for the players and fans. The game was so much better in Pony.
although kids now can hit huge taters now, and being one year out of little league, i can say, the longball is one of the funnest things to watch and to hit. and the pitching is fun to try to hit no matter how hard there throwing.
and one more thing.
since most of you are dads and your tired of the longball but you guys arent the ones playing it and homeruns are just part of the game. at comerica park they made the fences smaller so guys can actually hit them.
in some cases it is pretty stupid when guys hit it 250 feet but its amazung to see when the little guys can do it too
and one more thing.
since most of you are dads and your tired of the longball but you guys arent the ones playing it and homeruns are just part of the game. at comerica park they made the fences smaller so guys can actually hit them.
in some cases it is pretty stupid when guys hit it 250 feet but its amazung to see when the little guys can do it too
Candiankid,
Yes we are Dads....but i dare say most if not ALL of us played LL. For me it was exactly 30 years difference between my playing days in LL and my son's
Quite a difference, I played with a wood bat. As a 9 yr old, I was using a 28" wood bat. My son was swinging a 30", 19 oz aluminmum bat. There were far few HR's in the wood bat days. Certainly, there were no 4'8" 80 lb players routinely hitting HR's.
See that is exactly the point Canadian kid,
there were still flame throwers 30+ yrs ago in LL. But the batters were not using the aluminum rebound bats.
I have seen this technology revolution in both baseball and golf. When I started playing golf, woods were actually made of wood. Anyone who has played both baseball and golf with wood and the newer metal technologies knows exactly what I am talking about.
It is why golf courses like Augusta National and others have now lengthened the holes for the pro players. The US Open this year had a par 4 hole that was over 500 yds.
Sooner or later, LL has to wake up and put these kids on a more appropriately sized fields.
Yes we are Dads....but i dare say most if not ALL of us played LL. For me it was exactly 30 years difference between my playing days in LL and my son's
Quite a difference, I played with a wood bat. As a 9 yr old, I was using a 28" wood bat. My son was swinging a 30", 19 oz aluminmum bat. There were far few HR's in the wood bat days. Certainly, there were no 4'8" 80 lb players routinely hitting HR's.
See that is exactly the point Canadian kid,
there were still flame throwers 30+ yrs ago in LL. But the batters were not using the aluminum rebound bats.
I have seen this technology revolution in both baseball and golf. When I started playing golf, woods were actually made of wood. Anyone who has played both baseball and golf with wood and the newer metal technologies knows exactly what I am talking about.
It is why golf courses like Augusta National and others have now lengthened the holes for the pro players. The US Open this year had a par 4 hole that was over 500 yds.
Sooner or later, LL has to wake up and put these kids on a more appropriately sized fields.
quote:most if not ALL of us played LL.
Heck, in a big portion of the country NO ONE plays LL. Drives me crazy when the trade mark "Little League" is used as a synonym for all kids baseball. Or when it's implied that the LLWS is the World Series of all kids baseball.
I've never known a kid who played LL (at least in the past 20 years)
I guess most of the people here aren't going to be watching the LLWS, or if they are they won't enjoy it because they will be complaining. I'll keep switching back and forth between the Tiger games and the LLWS and I will enjoy watching all of it.
Micdsguy,
Sorry if I have offended you, the statement you quoted was in reference to myself...30 yrs ago. There were not too many (if any) alteratives to LL 30 years ago. Certainly not anywhere near where i grew up.
Even today, in many places in the country, LL is all that is available to kids 9-12. There are AAU/Select teams for kids these ages, but they are few are far between until you get to 12. There is of course Cal Ripken, which has replaced LL in manytown acrros the country.
I do not beleive anyone here suggested that LL was the only alternative for youth baseball either. It just happens that it is the subject of this thread. I would say most of us here agree LL needs to follow the lead taken by AAU, USSSA, Pony and other organizations and put these kids on a field that is more appropriate for their abilities.
If no one you know has played LL, what are they playing in your neck of the woods?
When my son was 12 and 13, he played for an AAU team that went to St. Louis to play in the AAYBA World Series. It was a great time, and great baseball. I would love to see that kind of event get coverage on ESPN or FOX Sportsnet, but it does not seem likely.
Sorry if I have offended you, the statement you quoted was in reference to myself...30 yrs ago. There were not too many (if any) alteratives to LL 30 years ago. Certainly not anywhere near where i grew up.
Even today, in many places in the country, LL is all that is available to kids 9-12. There are AAU/Select teams for kids these ages, but they are few are far between until you get to 12. There is of course Cal Ripken, which has replaced LL in manytown acrros the country.
I do not beleive anyone here suggested that LL was the only alternative for youth baseball either. It just happens that it is the subject of this thread. I would say most of us here agree LL needs to follow the lead taken by AAU, USSSA, Pony and other organizations and put these kids on a field that is more appropriate for their abilities.
If no one you know has played LL, what are they playing in your neck of the woods?
When my son was 12 and 13, he played for an AAU team that went to St. Louis to play in the AAYBA World Series. It was a great time, and great baseball. I would love to see that kind of event get coverage on ESPN or FOX Sportsnet, but it does not seem likely.
Did you notice that this kid topped out at 76 both in his one-inning stint on Sat. and in his complete game on Sunday?
Makes you wonder if those 81 mph readings were bogus, the product of a "friendly gun".
I've seen a 12-year-old throw 76 before, though it is rare. Never seen one hit 80+ before, though. Perhaps I still haven't.
Makes you wonder if those 81 mph readings were bogus, the product of a "friendly gun".
I've seen a 12-year-old throw 76 before, though it is rare. Never seen one hit 80+ before, though. Perhaps I still haven't.