That was the final score in a Massachusetts High School baseball game. Must have been awful for both teams involved. Seems like winning coach wasn't trying to run up the score.
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I dunno, I have trouble with this one. I coach a team that plays in a lot of mismatch games. From my perspective, I'd rather see the opposing team swinging and missing on purpose just to get through the game.
I looked for articles on this situation. The coach is well respected. The mistake he made is when scheduling Catholic or Christain schools you have to be sure you have the right one. There are often mutiple schools with the same name in a state. He picked the incorrect school of two.
Why did the other school agree to play then? Surely one of them must have known there was a mismatch in talent.
senorcoach posted:I dunno, I have trouble with this one. I coach a team that plays in a lot of mismatch games. From my perspective, I'd rather see the opposing team swinging and missing on purpose just to get through the game.
The #2 AA team in TN is in our district and because there was no coach from our school that went to the coaches meeting last year we ended up in a DH with them in our schedule. We had 4 games that week so we were already deep into the bull pen and to be honest I went after the other games knowing we could not compete with them. The first game I did at least play my starters along with the reaching deep into the bullpen and it ended 15-0 after 4. The game was not so pleasant but the opposing coach was very respectable to try to keep it close. He played his bench, knowing I was as well and once they got 5 runs they started bunting. Same as the 82-0 story, because I had some guys out of position and a few that its their first year playing on the field we could not make routine plays when they bunted to let us get the out. At one point they had runners on 1st & 2nd and laid down a bunt between the pitcher and 1st in which the pitcher fielded the ball and immediately threw to 1st with no one there. Both runs scored and the batter got to 3rd base. Second game ended 25-0 and was obvious that some of the guys were swinging just to strikeout.
I know that this is not always the case but many times coaches of teams this good are not just good coaches but also good men (women). Of the game I was just referring to, in the first inning my #4 batter and catcher said something after a called strikeout and the ump tossed him. When the inning was over I looked over to the opposing coach and told him I was going need a minute to figure out who was going to go behind the plate because he had just tossed my catcher and my backup was on the mound. The opposing coach told me to give him a minute, he went and made a concession to the ump who in turn reversed his call to toss the catcher. It was actually a pretty decent teachable moment because it allowed me, the ump and the player to have a conversation about not arguing balls and strikes.
I've seen my share of bad baseball, but it's hard for me to believe a High school team could be THAT bad.
82 - 0 and someone is trying to point out what a decent guy this coach is ??? No, I think he is a POS. He should have instructed his players to swing intentionally and miss to move the game into a run rule ending. There was not a single positive to come out of this.
Now that's what you call a bad coach. I mean the coach of the losing team. He probably thought he was going to get them better by allowing a much better team to beat them down without mercy. In softball you can step off a base and be called out for an illegal steal and I believe it's negligible on the stats sheet. In baseball getting caught in a rundown would've been the best way to stop the bleeding, but it would go on your stats as a caught stealing.
Waffles&icecream posted:82 - 0 and someone is trying to point out what a decent guy this coach is ??? No, I think he is a POS. He should have instructed his players to swing intentionally and miss to move the game into a run rule ending. There was not a single positive to come out of this.
Who are you to determine the character if this coach? Were you there? Do you know him? He IS a well respected coach.
No one locally is upset about this situation. The national sports media, who has nothing better to do than make mountains out of mole hills brought this story to light. Other than the immediate local paper no one in Massachusetts knew about this situation intil it was picked up from the national media. So, what happened was a bunch of media people who weren't there became judge and jury.
I won't argue against there were mistakes made on both sides. Both coaches admit to this. But NO ONE is upset about what happened.
OB1 posted:senorcoach posted:I dunno, I have trouble with this one. I coach a team that plays in a lot of mismatch games. From my perspective, I'd rather see the opposing team swinging and missing on purpose just to get through the game.
The #2 AA team in TN is in our district and because there was no coach from our school that went to the coaches meeting last year we ended up in a DH with them in our schedule. We had 4 games that week so we were already deep into the bull pen and to be honest I went after the other games knowing we could not compete with them. The first game I did at least play my starters along with the reaching deep into the bullpen and it ended 15-0 after 4. The game was not so pleasant but the opposing coach was very respectable to try to keep it close. He played his bench, knowing I was as well and once they got 5 runs they started bunting. Same as the 82-0 story, because I had some guys out of position and a few that its their first year playing on the field we could not make routine plays when they bunted to let us get the out. At one point they had runners on 1st & 2nd and laid down a bunt between the pitcher and 1st in which the pitcher fielded the ball and immediately threw to 1st with no one there. Both runs scored and the batter got to 3rd base. Second game ended 25-0 and was obvious that some of the guys were swinging just to strikeout.
I know that this is not always the case but many times coaches of teams this good are not just good coaches but also good men (women). Of the game I was just referring to, in the first inning my #4 batter and catcher said something after a called strikeout and the ump tossed him. When the inning was over I looked over to the opposing coach and told him I was going need a minute to figure out who was going to go behind the plate because he had just tossed my catcher and my backup was on the mound. The opposing coach told me to give him a minute, he went and made a concession to the ump who in turn reversed his call to toss the catcher. It was actually a pretty decent teachable moment because it allowed me, the ump and the player to have a conversation about not arguing balls and strikes.
I'm not calling in to question the character of the coach of the winning team or anthing like that. I wasn't there, I didn't see what happen, I don't know what was going through his head. I can only go from personal experiences and what I think I would have done in that situation.
I coach a very inexperienced team. Of the 14 guys on my roster, only 4 have played baseball before this year, and for 5 guys this is their first year playing baseball in their lives. On Thursday we played a league opponent and because of injuries, players being out of position, and only having two pitcher's available we lost 30-11. It sucks, but it happened. I'm not mad about it. On Saturday, we played a team that has 0 players with high school baseball experience. After 45 minutes, we were up 12-0 in the bottom of the first inning with only one out. That's when we started getting picked off on purpose. Once the inning ended, we went in to "one base on a hit, nothing else". After 5 batters in the second inning it was 17-0 (one of my guys did hit a 3 run HR). After the homerun, it became bnt and jog it out. If you are safe at first, get picked off. The game ended 17-1 after 5 innings.
We easily could have put up upwards of 50 runs in that game. But I did absolutely everything I could to make sure we didn't. My only point is that when 82 runs score, I have a hard time believing everything was done to prevent running up the score.
senorcoach posted:OB1 posted:senorcoach posted:I dunno, I have trouble with this one. I coach a team that plays in a lot of mismatch games. From my perspective, I'd rather see the opposing team swinging and missing on purpose just to get through the game.
The #2 AA team in TN is in our district and because there was no coach from our school that went to the coaches meeting last year we ended up in a DH with them in our schedule. We had 4 games that week so we were already deep into the bull pen and to be honest I went after the other games knowing we could not compete with them. The first game I did at least play my starters along with the reaching deep into the bullpen and it ended 15-0 after 4. The game was not so pleasant but the opposing coach was very respectable to try to keep it close. He played his bench, knowing I was as well and once they got 5 runs they started bunting. Same as the 82-0 story, because I had some guys out of position and a few that its their first year playing on the field we could not make routine plays when they bunted to let us get the out. At one point they had runners on 1st & 2nd and laid down a bunt between the pitcher and 1st in which the pitcher fielded the ball and immediately threw to 1st with no one there. Both runs scored and the batter got to 3rd base. Second game ended 25-0 and was obvious that some of the guys were swinging just to strikeout.
I know that this is not always the case but many times coaches of teams this good are not just good coaches but also good men (women). Of the game I was just referring to, in the first inning my #4 batter and catcher said something after a called strikeout and the ump tossed him. When the inning was over I looked over to the opposing coach and told him I was going need a minute to figure out who was going to go behind the plate because he had just tossed my catcher and my backup was on the mound. The opposing coach told me to give him a minute, he went and made a concession to the ump who in turn reversed his call to toss the catcher. It was actually a pretty decent teachable moment because it allowed me, the ump and the player to have a conversation about not arguing balls and strikes.
I'm not calling in to question the character of the coach of the winning team or anthing like that. I wasn't there, I didn't see what happen, I don't know what was going through his head. I can only go from personal experiences and what I think I would have done in that situation.
I coach a very inexperienced team. Of the 14 guys on my roster, only 4 have played baseball before this year, and for 5 guys this is their first year playing baseball in their lives. On Thursday we played a league opponent and because of injuries, players being out of position, and only having two pitcher's available we lost 30-11. It sucks, but it happened. I'm not mad about it. On Saturday, we played a team that has 0 players with high school baseball experience. After 45 minutes, we were up 12-0 in the bottom of the first inning with only one out. That's when we started getting picked off on purpose. Once the inning ended, we went in to "one base on a hit, nothing else". After 5 batters in the second inning it was 17-0 (one of my guys did hit a 3 run HR). After the homerun, it became bnt and jog it out. If you are safe at first, get picked off. The game ended 17-1 after 5 innings.
We easily could have put up upwards of 50 runs in that game. But I did absolutely everything I could to make sure we didn't. My only point is that when 82 runs score, I have a hard time believing everything was done to prevent running up the score.
I'm stunned there are high school programs with varsity teams in this country that have rosters full of kids that haven't played baseball before. I live in the Midwest hardly the National baseball hotbed yet there are more decent baseball players than spots available. Where are these teams in general I'm curious to understand this.
Waffles&icecream posted:82 - 0 and someone is trying to point out what a decent guy this coach is ??? No, I think he is a POS. He should have instructed his players to swing intentionally and miss to move the game into a run rule ending. There was not a single positive to come out of this.
It's actually much easier than this. We had one of those games last week (actually two - it was a DH). You simply have your runners round third and very obviously miss home plate. He argues in the article that they bunted and tried - tried, my rear end.
One part of the story everyone here seems to miss. The losing team starting pitcher through a COMPLETE GAME in an 82-0 loss.
roothog66 posted:It's actually much easier than this. We had one of those games last week (actually two - it was a DH). You simply have your runners round third and very obviously miss home plate. He argues in the article that they bunted and tried - tried, my rear end.
Good idea. Thursday we are supposed to play a team we beat 25-0 earlier in the year and it was tough to figure out how to keep from scoring. I eventually told the pitcher to throw to 3rd with bases loaded and had the 3rd basemen tag all my guys coming to the dugout.
Side note...
I know some comments have been made about "protecting stats." At this point the bench should be in and are you really worried about letting one of your Freshman having a CS on their stats? Yeah, I'm sure that one CS is going to keep them from a D1 scholarship.
I don't know if this is permissible in HS ball, but many years ago I played in a men's slow pitch softball league. We were getting spanked pretty bad and the other team basically gave us 6 outs one "inning". Basically they gave up their turn at bat in the last inning.
This discussion is a symptom of a bigger problem. The number of youth playing baseball is decreasing. The result is baseball quality (i.e the game) is diminishing.
This board is full of people that are passionate about the game. The discussion generally revolves around excellence; where kids aspire to do well, be recruited and progress in the game. At the top levels of the game you don't see the ugliness of sub-varsity baseball.
This was my 14th season umpiring HS ball. I have seen a real decrease in quality over the past 4-years. There are a number of problems which is clearly impacting what most of us would consider "health progression."
I went through the line-up cards for every game I officiated this year. There was only a small handful of rosters with more than 14 players. The vast majority had 10-12 players. When I see this I question, "how can you practice?" and "how can you scrimmage?" It is not everywhere, put it is becoming almost common place.
The biggest thing I notice this year is the number of teams which were truly awful. It is next to impossible to officiate a game when you have to create a strike zone that is so big or virtually every at bat would be a walk. The game begins to loose it purpose when kids can't catch, throw or worse don't understand the basics of the cutoff or when to take an extra base when the ball is thrown to a cutoff.
I had a Varsity game where one team was Jr's and Sr's and their opponent was Fr and Soph. This was two large public schools in the Phoenix area. The score was 9-0 before the first out was scored. The final score was 27-3 in five innings. The worst part for me as the home plate umpire was the number of instances where the 5'2" catcher was so small that routine foul balls went over either is shoulder or head and hit me.
I had another game between a large public HS and a smaller Catholic HS. The game went 4 innings, lasting nearly 3.5 hours before the home team forfeited because they did not have anyone to pitch. Again, they had a roster of 11 players of which 2 of them could not catch or throw. Does it make sense to start a game, put people at risk of injury if you know that a team does not have the resources to finish a game?
For all the discussion of what a coach should or shouldn't do in a blow out; there is a bigger point. What should be a minimum standard to field a team. HS rules state a game can not start unless both teams can field nine players. Shouldn't it be more important that a team can not begin a season unless they have enough players to not just field a game but to have meaningful practices.
I have reached the point where I will not officiate games where I know the game will be awful. I have told my association of my concerns and my recommendations to improve both the quality of play and safety for umpires. Their constituency are the schools; quality of baseball and umpire safety take a back seat roll to having kids participate in any kind of sport.
Handcontrol posted:senorcoach posted:OB1 posted:senorcoach posted:I dunno, I have trouble with this one. I coach a team that plays in a lot of mismatch games. From my perspective, I'd rather see the opposing team swinging and missing on purpose just to get through the game.
The #2 AA team in TN is in our district and because there was no coach from our school that went to the coaches meeting last year we ended up in a DH with them in our schedule. We had 4 games that week so we were already deep into the bull pen and to be honest I went after the other games knowing we could not compete with them. The first game I did at least play my starters along with the reaching deep into the bullpen and it ended 15-0 after 4. The game was not so pleasant but the opposing coach was very respectable to try to keep it close. He played his bench, knowing I was as well and once they got 5 runs they started bunting. Same as the 82-0 story, because I had some guys out of position and a few that its their first year playing on the field we could not make routine plays when they bunted to let us get the out. At one point they had runners on 1st & 2nd and laid down a bunt between the pitcher and 1st in which the pitcher fielded the ball and immediately threw to 1st with no one there. Both runs scored and the batter got to 3rd base. Second game ended 25-0 and was obvious that some of the guys were swinging just to strikeout.
I know that this is not always the case but many times coaches of teams this good are not just good coaches but also good men (women). Of the game I was just referring to, in the first inning my #4 batter and catcher said something after a called strikeout and the ump tossed him. When the inning was over I looked over to the opposing coach and told him I was going need a minute to figure out who was going to go behind the plate because he had just tossed my catcher and my backup was on the mound. The opposing coach told me to give him a minute, he went and made a concession to the ump who in turn reversed his call to toss the catcher. It was actually a pretty decent teachable moment because it allowed me, the ump and the player to have a conversation about not arguing balls and strikes.
I'm not calling in to question the character of the coach of the winning team or anthing like that. I wasn't there, I didn't see what happen, I don't know what was going through his head. I can only go from personal experiences and what I think I would have done in that situation.
I coach a very inexperienced team. Of the 14 guys on my roster, only 4 have played baseball before this year, and for 5 guys this is their first year playing baseball in their lives. On Thursday we played a league opponent and because of injuries, players being out of position, and only having two pitcher's available we lost 30-11. It sucks, but it happened. I'm not mad about it. On Saturday, we played a team that has 0 players with high school baseball experience. After 45 minutes, we were up 12-0 in the bottom of the first inning with only one out. That's when we started getting picked off on purpose. Once the inning ended, we went in to "one base on a hit, nothing else". After 5 batters in the second inning it was 17-0 (one of my guys did hit a 3 run HR). After the homerun, it became bnt and jog it out. If you are safe at first, get picked off. The game ended 17-1 after 5 innings.
We easily could have put up upwards of 50 runs in that game. But I did absolutely everything I could to make sure we didn't. My only point is that when 82 runs score, I have a hard time believing everything was done to prevent running up the score.
I'm stunned there are high school programs with varsity teams in this country that have rosters full of kids that haven't played baseball before. I live in the Midwest hardly the National baseball hotbed yet there are more decent baseball players than spots available. Where are these teams in general I'm curious to understand this.
Amazingly enough we are in the center of the baseball hotbed in Northern California. Our school is literally three blocks from one of the top private school programs in the country. We are however, located on the poor side of town and my team is largely not white. Not saying that race has anything to do with athletic ability, but that tradition and culture do). That means baseball in an inaccessible sport to the majority of players on my team. I have multiple guys who bought their gloves at flea markets, I have guys who literally cannot afford to buy protective cups. I re-route 80% of my stipend back into my program. When I came to this school 4 years ago, we had three different colors of mismatched helmets (some as old as 30 years old) and 7 baseballs. That's it. This is at the second oldest public high school in all of California... We were founded because of the California Gold Rush. Our game was recorded today. https://www.ustream.tv/channel/18844875
RJM posted:Waffles&icecream posted:82 - 0 and someone is trying to point out what a decent guy this coach is ??? No, I think he is a POS. He should have instructed his players to swing intentionally and miss to move the game into a run rule ending. There was not a single positive to come out of this.
Who are you to determine the character if this coach? Were you there? Do you know him? He IS a well respected coach.
No one locally is upset about this situation. The national sports media, who has nothing better to do than make mountains out of mole hills brought this story to light. Other than the immediate local paper no one in Massachusetts knew about this situation intil it was picked up from the national media. So, what happened was a bunch of media people who weren't there became judge and jury.
I won't argue against there were mistakes made on both sides. Both coaches admit to this. But NO ONE is upset about what happened.
Who am I to judge the character of this coach ??? Hmm lets see here, the score was 32-0 by the second inning. So trying as hard as he could to minimize this disaster, all he does is put up 50 more runs in the next 2 innings. I'm just fine with my assessment.