Actually, there were 2 young men with this syndrome trying out for a high school team.
I would be interested in what everyone would do in this situation if you were the high school coach.
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Are you talking tourettes?
If he has turrets you had better be careful, those things have guns in them sometimes. Unless his gun is throwing the ball from third to first you might have a dangerous situation.
Seriously, it depends on the the kid. Tourettes doesn't mean the kid can't play baseball. I did a quick google of baseball player with Tourette's and came up with this gentleman:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Eisenreich
If the kids can play well and make the team then, to me, there is no reason why they can't play the game. This isn't a condition that should keep a player off a team.
If he has turrets you had better be careful, those things have guns in them sometimes. Unless his gun is throwing the ball from third to first you might have a dangerous situation.
Seriously, it depends on the the kid. Tourettes doesn't mean the kid can't play baseball. I did a quick google of baseball player with Tourette's and came up with this gentleman:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Eisenreich
If the kids can play well and make the team then, to me, there is no reason why they can't play the game. This isn't a condition that should keep a player off a team.
I knew a player with tourettes several years ago. A decent player who's dad was the coach and insisted his son pitch. The problem was when ever runners got on he couldn't control his condition and balked the runers around the bases.
Funny and sad at the sme time.
Funny and sad at the sme time.
To clarify, one player has a real severe case of tourettes and the other does not as nobody was aware of his situation until he informed the school.
The coach best not cut him because he has tourettes. He can cut him because there are better players, because his grades are not what is required, for many other reasons. If he cuts him just because of his disability he leaves himself and the school wide open for an ADA lawsuit.
Yep, if he can't play the game at the level needed that is one thing.
If he has emotional problems that will cause a disruption on the team then that can also be a consideration but if he simply says nonsensical things or has tics he had better not cut him for that.
If he has emotional problems that will cause a disruption on the team then that can also be a consideration but if he simply says nonsensical things or has tics he had better not cut him for that.
Well anyone that watched the Giants win the world series saw a player with Tourettes. Freddy Sanchez was diagnosed several years ago and it hasn't hurt his baseball career.
American Idol judges didn't seem to mind either when they selected a singer with Tourettes to go to Hollywood.
I hope you'll become more open-minded and maybe just judge the kids on their baseball talent. Could be a great learning experience for you and many others that prejudge someone like this.
American Idol judges didn't seem to mind either when they selected a singer with Tourettes to go to Hollywood.
I hope you'll become more open-minded and maybe just judge the kids on their baseball talent. Could be a great learning experience for you and many others that prejudge someone like this.
quote:Originally posted by CaBB:
Well anyone that watched the Giants win the world series saw a player with Tourettes. Freddy Sanchez was diagnosed several years ago and it hasn't hurt his baseball career.
American Idol judges didn't seem to mind either when they selected a singer with Tourettes to go to Hollywood.
I hope you'll become more open-minded and maybe just judge the kids on their baseball talent. Could be a great learning experience for you and many others that prejudge someone like this.
CaBB,
Who are you directing the "you" toward in the above quote?
quote:Originally posted by CaBB:
I hope you'll become more open-minded and maybe just judge the kids on their baseball talent. Could be a great learning experience for you and many others that prejudge someone like this.
I agree. Coach Milburn, shame on you.
JMO.
If the kid can play, use it as a teaching opportunity!
High school baseball is all about my kid and winning. Don't get in the way. Take these two kids, the kid with no legs, the blind kid, the retarded kid, the kid with one hand and put them all on the same team. Score 30 runs in the first inning. All you have to do is bunt. This will show them that they'd better find something else to do because there is no place for them on a baseball diamond.
quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:
High school baseball is all about my kid and winning. Don't get in the way. Take these two kids, the kid with no legs, the blind kid, the retarded kid, the kid with one hand and put them all on the same team. Score 30 runs in the first inning. All you have to do is bunt. This will show them that they'd better find something else to do because there is no place for them on a baseball diamond.
Wow, harsh.
First off understand tourettes before you spout off like you have it.
Tourettes is not mental retardation, although some people do have it at the same time. Tourette's is a condition where a kid may make unusual noises and sometimes jerking motions that are semi controlled.
If the kid is running after a foul ball he doesn't jerk and jump all the way there. Physically there is no reason why a kid with Tourettes can't play baseball. THere are Major Leaguers with Tourettes so obviously kids can play with it.
A kid with a serious case of it may not be able to play because he may not be able to control himself in between plays. That may not work well in cases like the aformentioned pitcher or for a kid leading off from first base spouting nonsense or worse obscenities.
But not all Tourettes is like that.
I also reject the idea that there is no place in baseball for kids with handicaps. Yes, they may not play varsity baseball but there are all kinds of things available for kids of all abilities. Playing America's Passtime should be something that ALL American Youth should have access to. The days of locking the 'retard' up and getting him out of site is long past-thank God. Anyone can play baseball, not all can play it well but then again, compared to major leaguers most of our kids play like the blind kid, the retarded kid, the kid with no legs or the kid with one hand.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:quote:Originally posted by CaBB:
I hope you'll become more open-minded and maybe just judge the kids on their baseball talent. Could be a great learning experience for you and many others that prejudge someone like this.
I agree. Coach Milburn, shame on you.
JMO.
Hey TPM,
What the heck did I do for you to make a statement like that????
My son has a mild case of tourette's syndrome has made it to college ball.
quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:
High school baseball is all about my kid and winning. Don't get in the way. Take these two kids, the kid with no legs, the blind kid, the retarded kid, the kid with one hand and put them all on the same team. Score 30 runs in the first inning. All you have to do is bunt. This will show them that they'd better find something else to do because there is no place for them on a baseball diamond.
Are you trying to be funny or sarcastic? I would really hope so, but somehow I think you missed the mark.
I am the parent of a baseball playing child with a disability. Thank God every coach my son has encountered has been very understanding and appreciative of his baseball playing abilities.
quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:
High school baseball is all about my kid and winning. Don't get in the way. Take these two kids, the kid with no legs, the blind kid, the retarded kid, the kid with one hand and put them all on the same team. Score 30 runs in the first inning. All you have to do is bunt. This will show them that they'd better find something else to do because there is no place for them on a baseball diamond.
Wow, how close minded is that!
Coach Milburn,
You consider yourself an experienced coach yet you have to come ask that question, you can't figure that out for yourself? I can, and I am not a coach. You didn't even spell the syndrome correctly, until brought to your attention.
You place him in the team if he deserves to be, just like anyone else.
bcb3,
My son played against a player in college in the ACC (GATech) with tourette's. Did have to compose himself at times but game was called, he handled himself with dignity, while I have seen some "normal" players who can't.
Best of luck to your son.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
Wow, how close minded is that!
Coach Milburn,
You consider yourself an experienced coach yet you have to come ask that question, you can't figure that out for yourself? I can, and I am not a coach. You didn't even spell the syndrome correctly, until brought to your attention.
You place him in the team if he deserves to be, just like anyone else.
Hey TPM, like you have never made a post in error and then went back to make a correction???
I think some individuals on this board need to go back and read the post again.
There a couple of you jumping to conclusions and again, you do not even have all of the facts to even form your own opinion.
So, please quit making comments directed toward me like I have done something wrong.
Wklink, very nice post!
quote:Originally posted by Bum:
Wklink, very nice post!
For the rest of the story ...
Player A wanted to enroll at the private school to pursue the baseball program.
After a few days after the family went through the application and interview process, the family had yet to hear anything.
Several more days has past as the young man and his family really wanted attend this private school and still yet to hear anything from school officials.
The silence from the school officials on his status prompted a phone call to me from the parents inquiring what was taking so long. The family thought since Player A was not approached by "The Parent" who was helping me in selling the program during the summer that "The Parent" helping me did not sell Player A enough to the school. I replied, "No, that is not true and I am not sure why there is a delay and said I would inquire. I further shared with the family that "The Parent" was helping me to find players over the mountain as I was not too familiar with the area."
So I inquired with one of the administrators and she shared with me that the family informed the school that Player A had a very slight case of tourettes. The lady administrator made this comment to me, "Coach, you know we have to think about all of other students" and I replied, "You know for the family to come out and share that with the school, that's telling you something about them"
Several more days went by and still the school had yet to notify the family if Player A would be accepted. I wrote a letter to the Asst. Head of School basically going into further detail with what I shared with the above administrator who was in charge of admissions.
Outcome ...
Player A was admitted several days later.
Player B, he came out for the team when spring practice started because he really like the baseball guys and they encouraged him to come out.
Please understand, Tom had NO business even being on a baseball field but we all treated him like he had no issues BUT the boys would sometimes encourage him into one of his tics and I would have to get on them about that. Tom had a real severe case with the cussing tic.
After our first scrimmage Player B's mother approached me in person and said "Coach, we really appreciate what you are doing for Tom and he really likes being part of the team" I replied, "Mrs. Such-n-Such, we all like Tom and please be rest assured that we'll never put Tom in a position where he might get hurt."
What happened to Player A and Tom?
Unfortunately Tom did not show up for practice one day and I asked the guys, where is Tom and they informed me he did something that was not appropriate during class and was removed from the team.
Player A, excelled in the classroom with straight A's and went onto Appalachian State then transferred over to Marshall University to finish his career and school and is living and working way down south in WV teaching/guiding the young people.
Very much a true story! Some on here might even know of Player A.
Player A wanted to enroll at the private school to pursue the baseball program.
After a few days after the family went through the application and interview process, the family had yet to hear anything.
Several more days has past as the young man and his family really wanted attend this private school and still yet to hear anything from school officials.
The silence from the school officials on his status prompted a phone call to me from the parents inquiring what was taking so long. The family thought since Player A was not approached by "The Parent" who was helping me in selling the program during the summer that "The Parent" helping me did not sell Player A enough to the school. I replied, "No, that is not true and I am not sure why there is a delay and said I would inquire. I further shared with the family that "The Parent" was helping me to find players over the mountain as I was not too familiar with the area."
So I inquired with one of the administrators and she shared with me that the family informed the school that Player A had a very slight case of tourettes. The lady administrator made this comment to me, "Coach, you know we have to think about all of other students" and I replied, "You know for the family to come out and share that with the school, that's telling you something about them"
Several more days went by and still the school had yet to notify the family if Player A would be accepted. I wrote a letter to the Asst. Head of School basically going into further detail with what I shared with the above administrator who was in charge of admissions.
Outcome ...
Player A was admitted several days later.
Player B, he came out for the team when spring practice started because he really like the baseball guys and they encouraged him to come out.
Please understand, Tom had NO business even being on a baseball field but we all treated him like he had no issues BUT the boys would sometimes encourage him into one of his tics and I would have to get on them about that. Tom had a real severe case with the cussing tic.
After our first scrimmage Player B's mother approached me in person and said "Coach, we really appreciate what you are doing for Tom and he really likes being part of the team" I replied, "Mrs. Such-n-Such, we all like Tom and please be rest assured that we'll never put Tom in a position where he might get hurt."
What happened to Player A and Tom?
Unfortunately Tom did not show up for practice one day and I asked the guys, where is Tom and they informed me he did something that was not appropriate during class and was removed from the team.
Player A, excelled in the classroom with straight A's and went onto Appalachian State then transferred over to Marshall University to finish his career and school and is living and working way down south in WV teaching/guiding the young people.
Very much a true story! Some on here might even know of Player A.
Oliver Sacks, a world-reknowned neurologist, knows five surgeons who have tourette's syndrome:
Many professions, one would think, would be closed to someone with elaborate tics and compulsions, but this does not seem to be the case. We find people with Tourette's--sometimes the most severe Tourette's--in virtually every walk of life. There are Tourettic writers, mathematicians, musicians, actors, disk jockeys, construction workers, mechanics, athletes. Some things, one might think, would be completely out of the question--above all, perhaps, the intricate, precise, and steady work of a surgeon. This would have been my own belief not so long ago. But now, improbably, I know five surgeons with Tourette's.
http://oliversacks.tripod.com/sur.html
Many professions, one would think, would be closed to someone with elaborate tics and compulsions, but this does not seem to be the case. We find people with Tourette's--sometimes the most severe Tourette's--in virtually every walk of life. There are Tourettic writers, mathematicians, musicians, actors, disk jockeys, construction workers, mechanics, athletes. Some things, one might think, would be completely out of the question--above all, perhaps, the intricate, precise, and steady work of a surgeon. This would have been my own belief not so long ago. But now, improbably, I know five surgeons with Tourette's.
http://oliversacks.tripod.com/sur.html
Coach,
Your story, just in my opinion has nothing to do with the topic you began.
I see this as very much personal (the discussions between you and admin for example) and not necessarily to be shared, does anyone else see that?
You are a coach, I would expect a bit more professionalism, but I also understand you like tootin' your own horn.
Your story, just in my opinion has nothing to do with the topic you began.
I see this as very much personal (the discussions between you and admin for example) and not necessarily to be shared, does anyone else see that?
You are a coach, I would expect a bit more professionalism, but I also understand you like tootin' your own horn.
My false outrage meter is pegged
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
Coach,
Your story, just in my opinion has nothing to do with the topic you began.
And I see this as very much personal (the discussions between you and admin for example) and not necessarily to be shared, does anyone else see that?
You are a coach, I would expect aq bit more professionalism, but I also understand you like tootin' your own horn.
By golly, you have figured it out and have all the answers. I thought it would generate some interesting discussions but (2) individuals with a common dominator took it upon themselves to attack me because they assumed that I cut one or both of these players. Shame on both of you.
For the record, this story took place 10yrs ago.
quote:Originally posted by MILBY:
For the record, this story took place 10yrs ago.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I never said or assumed that you cut the player, go back and read. I just felt it was an inappropriate discussion, now that I know it it happened 10 years ago, my opinion hasn't changed.
Why the name change?
quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:
High school baseball is all about my kid and winning. Don't get in the way. Take these two kids, the kid with no legs, the blind kid, the retarded kid, the kid with one hand and put them all on the same team. Score 30 runs in the first inning. All you have to do is bunt. This will show them that they'd better find something else to do because there is no place for them on a baseball diamond.
Sir, I haven't been on this site for too long now but in the time I have been here I have encountered some great and encouraging people. You, on the other hand. Are a maniacal *******. These young men were born with disabilities that they have no control over and you say to isolate them just for your son to demolish them? I myself have tourretes and it has had no advers affects upon my baseball or academic abilities whatsoever. If anything this disease has encouraged me to press forward knowing that there are worse cases. This disease has no adverse effects on me, I have had very much success on the baseball diamond, and plan to attend an Ivy League University and study to become a cardiovascular surgeon. So in the future I would please ask you to not be such a close-minded hick. Thank you sir.
Don't worry, for parents like Antzdad, reality will come someday and they will find out it's not all about their players anymore.
I just can't beleive this topic, the poor judgement at beginning it and the above response.
I just can't beleive this topic, the poor judgement at beginning it and the above response.
I think AntzDad was writing a parody of an attitude I don't think he has. On a related thread, his sympathies were entirely with the disabled player in Florida who didn't make his team.
AntzDad and I don't often agree, but I don't think he is one of those hyper-competitive jerks. I think he was having some fun and making a point.
AntzDad and I don't often agree, but I don't think he is one of those hyper-competitive jerks. I think he was having some fun and making a point.
I sure hope you're right.
I had a family member that was a catcher in both high school and college that has tourettes.
Swampboy, we've been banging heads for a few days, but you're one of the few who understood me. I wasn't trying to be funny, though. It was more like holding up a mirror.
I was a little disappointed with some things I was reading. One quote, in the other thread, just blew me away.
"If I was the coach of another team and knew that he couldn't field a bunt what do you think I would do every single time?"
No one challenged him on it!
I was expecting Judge Smails to chime in with, "Well, the world needs ditch diggers, too."
I was a little disappointed with some things I was reading. One quote, in the other thread, just blew me away.
"If I was the coach of another team and knew that he couldn't field a bunt what do you think I would do every single time?"
No one challenged him on it!
I was expecting Judge Smails to chime in with, "Well, the world needs ditch diggers, too."
I briefly met Jim Eisenreich during a meet and greet when he was down here with the Marlins. Aside from being a very good ballplayer, he seemed very personable and was gracious with his time as well. He did not have any of the visible ticks you would expect from the way Hollywood has portrayed people with TS.
TS in and of itself should not be an impediment to playing baseball provided the person can consistently perform his duties.
TS in and of itself should not be an impediment to playing baseball provided the person can consistently perform his duties.
awful lot of small minds 0n the loose here goood nite
quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:
Swampboy, we've been banging heads for a few days, but you're one of the few who understood me. I wasn't trying to be funny, though. It was more like holding up a mirror.
I was a little disappointed with some things I was reading. One quote, in the other thread, just blew me away.
"If I was the coach of another team and knew that he couldn't field a bunt what do you think I would do every single time?"
No one challenged him on it!
I was expecting Judge Smails to chime in with, "Well, the world needs ditch diggers, too."
These are two, totally unrelated things.
I said flat out that in this thread that if the kid had the ability to make the team than his Tourette's should have no real bearing on him making the team. If the kid can can field, throw and hit then his little tics or nonsensical statments should have little to no bearing on whether he makes the team.
Likewise, if this kid with no legs COULD field his position and made the team on his own merits then he should be on the team. I am very consistant on this. The coach said he didn't make the team because he can't field bunts. It has nothing to do with his disability, it has everything to do with his ABILITY to play the game at the level he is trying to attain.
This is my point and my point only concerning the two. A disability should never keep a person from playing baseball. But that disability doesn't mean that he has the right to play at a level that is too high for him. Just because he has no legs does not mean he has the right to play varsity baseball. His ability to play the position should be the determinant, not his disability.
And I'm sorry but an opposing coach will take advantage of his inability to field bunts or balls hit back at him. You may not think it is 'fair' but to me it is no diffent than a coach taking advantage of an opposing catcher's weak arm or the lack of range of an opposing outfielder. You wouldn't groove fastballs to a kid that can't hit a curveball so why should an opponent not take advantage of an opponents weakness? Because he doesn't want to make him feel bad?
If you can't see the difference between my positions then I will never get through to you. Play but play at an ability that is fitting for you. No one should be denied the chance to play, if they want to play but not everyone should make varsity. I am very consistant in this belief.
I am a junior in college. My school hosted the NCAA regionals for cross country this past fall and the baseball team was in charge of directing traffic into the parking lots as part of our fundraiser. We rolled out of bed on a Saturday morning at 7 am and dragged ourselves to the parking lot where we dreadfully put on our bright orange vests. The police chief gave us Dunkin' Donuts and we played sword fight with the batons for a few hours.
I've never been to a cross country meet in my life, and had no desire to do so at the time. The thought of watching hundreds of skinny people running mile after mile with short shorts chasing each other didn't really appeal to me. I am, after all, an American college student...instant gratification is generally the name of the game.
As a team, we figured we should at least stick around for the meet, being that we'd been there longer than the athletes themselves. First, the women rolled through. We watched them fly past us at the finish line, exhausted. 20 minutes later, the men started. They also flew by in a similar physical state. We were about ready to head to our cars and exit the complex to head back to whatever we were doing with our lives when the police chief informed us that the back exit was closed because there was still a kid running. We were flabbergasted. The official clock above the finish line was around the 50 minute mark. I said to myself "I can walk faster than this, why is this kid running cross country?"
We stood around complaining for a few minutes when we heard a grumbling from the crowd in the distance. We glanced over and saw a runner making his way down the runway, towards the finish line. As he got closer and afforded me a better look, my jaw dropped.
The young man had two artificial legs. He hobbled his way through the cheering crowd and crossed the finish line. He embraced an older woman as he finished and looked like he was crying.
I went home after that to my off campus house and was relaxing on the couch spanning channels when I saw that the local news station had coverage of the meet. I kept it on, hoping that maybe they'd show us baseball players doing our amazingly hard job of waving a baton towards a traffic spot. But obviously, it didn't show any of that. Instead, the news spot featured the young man with no legs. In an interview with him and his coach, they explained that he was a 26 year old freshman. He was a Marine deployed in Iraq and lost both legs last year in battle. When he was sent home, he was given artificial legs and enrolled into the college that he was running for. The clip then rolled to his mother, who was the lady that had hugged him beyond the finish line. She began crying when describing the emotions she felt. "All he wanted to do was compete, and Coach gave him a chance. When he crossed that line, it showed me that accomplishment goes way beyond any medal you can win."
The coach at the NCAA institution that this young man competed for saw that he had a passion for the sport, and availed him the opportunity to try to do so. Was he going to win the race? No, everyone knew that. But he tried his best for the team.
AntzDad- I agree with your statement that some kids don't belong playing, and that is not necessarily any fault of their own. But your comment proved to be rather closed-minded and lacking detail. It is difficult to comprehend the true meaning of your words because of the lack of emotion displayed. I completely disagree with your statement that high school baseball is all about winning. If you think that is true, then I'd suggest you separate yourself from the sport for the rest of your life. Baseball is a love, passion, desire, and enormous amount of fun for millions involved. I love playing baseball, even when I lose. If I didn't I wouldn't play.
The example you provided was very disheartenening, blunt, and unnecessary. The rudeness you emitted obviously upset a lot of people here, and for you to try to defend your argument is rather surprising to me. What you said is very different than discussing coaching philosophy in these particular situations. I'd suggest re-reading what you wrote, rephrasing your opinion, and moving on in the discussion. You've said some good things in the past about other topics and I don't believe you are as bigoted as that comment makes you seem, but backing the literal interpretation of the comment causes me to question that sentiment.
I've never been to a cross country meet in my life, and had no desire to do so at the time. The thought of watching hundreds of skinny people running mile after mile with short shorts chasing each other didn't really appeal to me. I am, after all, an American college student...instant gratification is generally the name of the game.
As a team, we figured we should at least stick around for the meet, being that we'd been there longer than the athletes themselves. First, the women rolled through. We watched them fly past us at the finish line, exhausted. 20 minutes later, the men started. They also flew by in a similar physical state. We were about ready to head to our cars and exit the complex to head back to whatever we were doing with our lives when the police chief informed us that the back exit was closed because there was still a kid running. We were flabbergasted. The official clock above the finish line was around the 50 minute mark. I said to myself "I can walk faster than this, why is this kid running cross country?"
We stood around complaining for a few minutes when we heard a grumbling from the crowd in the distance. We glanced over and saw a runner making his way down the runway, towards the finish line. As he got closer and afforded me a better look, my jaw dropped.
The young man had two artificial legs. He hobbled his way through the cheering crowd and crossed the finish line. He embraced an older woman as he finished and looked like he was crying.
I went home after that to my off campus house and was relaxing on the couch spanning channels when I saw that the local news station had coverage of the meet. I kept it on, hoping that maybe they'd show us baseball players doing our amazingly hard job of waving a baton towards a traffic spot. But obviously, it didn't show any of that. Instead, the news spot featured the young man with no legs. In an interview with him and his coach, they explained that he was a 26 year old freshman. He was a Marine deployed in Iraq and lost both legs last year in battle. When he was sent home, he was given artificial legs and enrolled into the college that he was running for. The clip then rolled to his mother, who was the lady that had hugged him beyond the finish line. She began crying when describing the emotions she felt. "All he wanted to do was compete, and Coach gave him a chance. When he crossed that line, it showed me that accomplishment goes way beyond any medal you can win."
The coach at the NCAA institution that this young man competed for saw that he had a passion for the sport, and availed him the opportunity to try to do so. Was he going to win the race? No, everyone knew that. But he tried his best for the team.
AntzDad- I agree with your statement that some kids don't belong playing, and that is not necessarily any fault of their own. But your comment proved to be rather closed-minded and lacking detail. It is difficult to comprehend the true meaning of your words because of the lack of emotion displayed. I completely disagree with your statement that high school baseball is all about winning. If you think that is true, then I'd suggest you separate yourself from the sport for the rest of your life. Baseball is a love, passion, desire, and enormous amount of fun for millions involved. I love playing baseball, even when I lose. If I didn't I wouldn't play.
The example you provided was very disheartenening, blunt, and unnecessary. The rudeness you emitted obviously upset a lot of people here, and for you to try to defend your argument is rather surprising to me. What you said is very different than discussing coaching philosophy in these particular situations. I'd suggest re-reading what you wrote, rephrasing your opinion, and moving on in the discussion. You've said some good things in the past about other topics and I don't believe you are as bigoted as that comment makes you seem, but backing the literal interpretation of the comment causes me to question that sentiment.
quote:Originally posted by Wklink:
...to me it is no different than a coach taking advantage of an opposing catcher's weak arm or the lack of range of an opposing outfielder.
So, you're still gonna tell your team to bunt, all day?
You're right. You'll never get through to me. I believe in sportsmanship.
J H, please, read my second post again. We're on the same page.
What would your team do, if your coach's strategy was to bunt against the pitcher with no legs? Would you bunt?
AntzDad- Your second post doesn't erase what the first post's message was. It is an attempt at justification with an example that holds no water in the discussion. The strategy of opposing coaches has nothing to do with telling kids with disabilities to "get out of the way" and "find something else to do." Generationally, the method of development is to empower the youth of the present. These sentiments, to me, seem to be doing the exact opposite.
Are you going to bunt, or not?
If the opposing coach has a player playing third base who we have determined to have slow reactions and is not up to standard in fielding a bunt on a consistent basis, then yes I would urge my team to bunt down the third base line to take advantage of this player's incapability to keep up with the necessary speed of the game to be successful. This would be done regardless of how many legs the player has, or what sort of mental disability occurs.
Does my answer discourage young men with disabilities from attempting to play the game? I don't think so. Yours did.
Does my answer discourage young men with disabilities from attempting to play the game? I don't think so. Yours did.
You really haven't answered the question. Last chance.
Are you going to bunt against the pitcher with no legs? Yes or no, please.
Are you going to bunt against the pitcher with no legs? Yes or no, please.
quote:If the opposing coach has a player playing third base who we have determined to have slow reactions and is not up to standard in fielding a bunt on a consistent basis, then yes I would urge my team to bunt down the third base line to take advantage of this player's incapability to keep up with the necessary speed of the game to be successful. This would be done regardless of how many legs the player has, or what sort of mental disability occurs.
I'm pretty sure that answered your question, and was posted a few minutes ago. Don't waste my time repeating questions that I've already addressed. I'm not a fan of being patronized.
Stop wasting my time with your fluffy answers, when all that was asked for was a simple yes or no, which you still haven't given.
If the coach has determined that the player's disability causes him to not be able to field the ball well enough to make a play, then yes I would bunt.
Last time I checked, I speak English, and type it pretty well too.
I still have no idea how your question is relevant to the original post.
Last time I checked, I speak English, and type it pretty well too.
I still have no idea how your question is relevant to the original post.
quote:Originally posted by J H:
If the coach has determined that the player's disability causes him to not be able to field the ball well enough to make a play, then yes I would bunt.
Last time I checked, I speak English, and type it pretty well too.
I still have no idea how your question is relevant to the original post.
So, you will bunt on the pitcher with no legs. Thank you.
Would I bunt all day? No way. His fastball tops out at 80. I'm swinging away. 
Antz,
Your question shows what happens once you start making decisions for reasons other than ability to help the team win.
You put a guy on the roster who didn't earn the spot. Hooray! Everyone feels wonderful!
Eventually, you put him in a game. After all, it would be cruel to leave him on the bench all season.
Now, to keep the good vibes rippling ever outward, you expect the opposing coach to put aside his aspirations for his team's success and manage the game in a way that doesn't exploit the player's disability? Why should he buy into this project? What if his players have been having a discouraging season and desperately need a win? What if his normal offense is small ball built around the bunt and speed?
What happens when the game is on the line with the tying run on third in the seventh inning? Is he allowed to bunt then and still meet your standards of compassion?
What about stealing? It's possible that this pitcher isn't great at holding runners. Is it okay to get a good jump on him, or would that be selfish, too?
Where would the accommodations stop? When would it be okay to play to win against this player? When do the other players on either team get to learn the lessons that come from striving to reach a common goal?
Sportsmanship is about playing hard within a set of rules. I maintain that it is poor sportsmanship to put players and coaches in a situation where they're expected to compete half-heartedly.
Remember, this is varsity competition. There are other baseball venues with minimum participation requirement for players looking for a more relaxed baseball experience.
The cross country story is nice, but it's a different kind of situation. In cross country, each team fields 7 runners, but only the scores of the first 5 finishers count. A non-competitive runner who finishes last doesn't hurt the team's chance of winning.
Antz,
Your question shows what happens once you start making decisions for reasons other than ability to help the team win.
You put a guy on the roster who didn't earn the spot. Hooray! Everyone feels wonderful!
Eventually, you put him in a game. After all, it would be cruel to leave him on the bench all season.
Now, to keep the good vibes rippling ever outward, you expect the opposing coach to put aside his aspirations for his team's success and manage the game in a way that doesn't exploit the player's disability? Why should he buy into this project? What if his players have been having a discouraging season and desperately need a win? What if his normal offense is small ball built around the bunt and speed?
What happens when the game is on the line with the tying run on third in the seventh inning? Is he allowed to bunt then and still meet your standards of compassion?
What about stealing? It's possible that this pitcher isn't great at holding runners. Is it okay to get a good jump on him, or would that be selfish, too?
Where would the accommodations stop? When would it be okay to play to win against this player? When do the other players on either team get to learn the lessons that come from striving to reach a common goal?
Sportsmanship is about playing hard within a set of rules. I maintain that it is poor sportsmanship to put players and coaches in a situation where they're expected to compete half-heartedly.
Remember, this is varsity competition. There are other baseball venues with minimum participation requirement for players looking for a more relaxed baseball experience.
The cross country story is nice, but it's a different kind of situation. In cross country, each team fields 7 runners, but only the scores of the first 5 finishers count. A non-competitive runner who finishes last doesn't hurt the team's chance of winning.
quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:
J H, please, read my second post again. We're on the same page.
So you are trying to say that your original post was NOT what you really thought but you were rather making a point regarding another conversation in another topic?
quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:quote:Originally posted by Wklink:
...to me it is no different than a coach taking advantage of an opposing catcher's weak arm or the lack of range of an opposing outfielder.
So, you're still gonna tell your team to bunt, all day?
You're right. You'll never get through to me. I believe in sportsmanship.
J H, please, read my second post again. We're on the same page.
What would your team do, if your coach's strategy was to bunt against the pitcher with no legs? Would you bunt?
Yes, If I was the coach of an opposing team I would put down bunts. Not every single hitter but until the other team proved to me that they could field that bunt you bet your tush I would. If I can get a runner on base and in an opponents head you bet I would do it.
You want it plain and simple yes. If I have an opponent with a known weakness I am going to take advantage of it.
Sportsmanship is fine but if you don't take advantage of an opponents weakness then you are just plain stupid. Coaches do it all the time. A kid with a weak throwing arm gets run on, a hitter that can't hit one kind of pitch or another gets that pitch all day.
I suppose you call that poor sportsmanship too right? This kid wants to play at an upper tier of baseball. He is CHOOSING to attempt to play at this level. This isn't kiddie coach pitch everyone gets a trophy baseball anymore. Coaches get fired for losing seasons.
WOW! I just came across this thread! The ignorance running rampant regarding tourettes is disturbing. This first rule, do not speak about somethng you cleary know nothing about without risking looking like a complete idiot! I am not a political correctness guy but "retard"?? That word may actually apply correctly to some of the guys making some ridiculous statements on a pubic forum!
Anrz-I doubt seriously any Varsity HS Coach is going to keep a kid that cannot prove himself during a try out, disability or not. Therefore, your repetitvie question regarding the bunt scenario is ridiculous! Although, you may have a lot of time to ask that very question to your cronies when your raking coals downstairs!
Why would you not take advantage of a player's weakness in a competitive situation. Pitchers are always trying to get a hitter out by exploiting his weakness by executing a certain pitch.
If the coach puts a kid on the field with a disability that will negeatively affect his team play, then shame on that coach for being forced to make such a move to put a kid in a position like that in the first place. If you're physically or mentally unfit, then why the hell do you have to be politically correct and do feel-good stuff that's ridiculous. You either can overcome the affliction, beat the odds and perform or you can't and you do something else.
You can't exppect a fat ugly heifer to slither down a Victoria Secret runway so why is the sports profession any different?
If the coach puts a kid on the field with a disability that will negeatively affect his team play, then shame on that coach for being forced to make such a move to put a kid in a position like that in the first place. If you're physically or mentally unfit, then why the hell do you have to be politically correct and do feel-good stuff that's ridiculous. You either can overcome the affliction, beat the odds and perform or you can't and you do something else.
You can't exppect a fat ugly heifer to slither down a Victoria Secret runway so why is the sports profession any different?
Is there a moderator here who can delete this thread? Talk about the exact opposite of "golden thread"