A hypothetical question concerning college level BP

 A few thoughts:

Video of BP is not going to give you the best idea of where pitches are, especially on curves and sliders going outside from the same-side pitcher.

A great deal of pitches off the plate or low are hittable with current bats. He needs to learn how to do something with those if only to prevent him from being set up out there.

What anyone thinks here is irrelevant. Does the coaching staff feel he is getting adequate preparation?

Not sure it's throwing around him....it's early, and if it's anything like my son's team, pitchers are just not game ready yet.  Son's team didn't get to practice outside before leaving for their opening weekend road trip the past two seasons.  Pitching struggled.  It took a month until they started looking better.   I wouldn't worry about it...if he's hitting strikes, that's all you can hope for at this point

Pitchers are also trying to earn playing time. 

He should use it as an opportunity to improve hitting those pitches if he is seeing those all the time. Sounds like the pitchers are giving him an opportunity to improve. Hit it where it’s pitched.

Matt13 posted:

  Does the coaching staff feel he is getting adequate preparation?

Good question. That's a conversation I feel the player might have to have and goes to the heart of this post.

Buckeye 2015 posted:

Not sure it's throwing around him....it's early, and if it's anything like my son's team, pitchers are just not game ready yet.  Son's team didn't get to practice outside before leaving for their opening weekend road trip the past two seasons.  Pitching struggled.  It took a month until they started looking better.   I wouldn't worry about it...if he's hitting strikes, that's all you can hope for at this point

They are throwing around him. I had my doubts but after watching video it is what it is. Can't hit a strike if one isn't thrown.

2022OFDad posted:

He should use it as an opportunity to improve hitting those pitches if he is seeing those all the time. Sounds like the pitchers are giving him an opportunity to improve. Hit it where it’s pitched.

Asking a player to chase. I don't feel comfortable doing that. Player has two strengths at the plate. Easy bat speed and a very good eye for balls and strikes. 

SomeBaseballDad posted:

2022OFDad posted:

He should use it as an opportunity to improve hitting those pitches if he is seeing those all the time. Sounds like the pitchers are giving him an opportunity to improve. Hit it where it’s pitched.

Asking a player to chase. I don't feel comfortable doing that. Player has two strengths at the plate. Easy bat speed and a very good eye for balls and strikes. 

A good eye for balls and strikes can be a disadvantage if he limits his swings to what he perceives to be strikes. The probability of a productive outcome varies from situation to situation, but sometimes putting a bat to a ball outside has a better outcome probability than adding a ball to the count. Being able to take advantage of those situations will make him a better hitter.

And like I alluded to above, if pitchers know he can't/won't do anything with certain pitches, that allows them to set him up there and come back elsewhere on subsequent pitches.

A lot of valued points.  I have noticed clutch hitters can do damage out of the zone.  Asking hitters to chase is not the same as asking hitters not to be afraid to hit balls outside of the zone.  As far as these live bp’s.  Are they resulting in walks?

SomeBaseballDad posted:

2022OFDad posted:

He should use it as an opportunity to improve hitting those pitches if he is seeing those all the time. Sounds like the pitchers are giving him an opportunity to improve. Hit it where it’s pitched.

Asking a player to chase. I don't feel comfortable doing that. Player has two strengths at the plate. Easy bat speed and a very good eye for balls and strikes. 

Didn’t you say it’s batting practice? I don’t see the harm as long as he can maintain plate discipline otherwise.

I spoke with my son last night. He said that batters get a lot of BP but when pitchers are throwing to batters it is a scrimmage not BP. He it trying to get every batter out and every batter is trying to drive the ball. The pitching coach calls the pitches so I would beat he would challenge the batters weakness. Also pitchers have to do some type of conditioning drill for walks so they are trying to throw strikes, just not strikes they can drive.

SomeBaseballDad posted:

Buckeye 2015 posted:

Not sure it's throwing around him....it's early, and if it's anything like my son's team, pitchers are just not game ready yet.  Son's team didn't get to practice outside before leaving for their opening weekend road trip the past two seasons.  Pitching struggled.  It took a month until they started looking better.   I wouldn't worry about it...if he's hitting strikes, that's all you can hope for at this point

They are throwing around him. I had my doubts but after watching video it is what it is. Can't hit a strike if one isn't thrown.

I guess I'm confused.....and maybe I'm not clear on your questions.  Are you talking about in BP....or in "game situation" hitting.  Even if it's indoors, it's two different things.  BP normally is thrown by a coach.....if my son is pitching to a batter in the pre-season, his pitching coach is watching him...not the batter.  No different than if it was a real game, it's his job to get batters out.   He can't "pitch around" a guy....the pitching coach would see that as a walk....and my son would be penalized for it.  If your son is batting in a case like this, it's no different than a game....the pitcher is trying to get him out.  Both sides are getting work in.  I wouldn't swing at junk if I'm your son....he'll look bad to the hitting coaches.  They don't care what the pitcher is doing, they are watching your son.  If your son doesn't get anything to hit...that's a walk.   Coaches would rather see that....even in practice than see him swinging at anything that moves and ending up with what would be a K in a game.

My son went back to being a 2 way guy last season (DH and P).  He hadn't really had any game at bats since HS (8 AB's his freshman year).  I would talk to him this time last year about how he hit.  He'd tell me..."John struck me out...I got a hit against Timmy........Jimmy struck me out.   Dang, they know I can't hit curve balls so that's all I get".   Well guess what....John and Jimmy looked good to the pitching coach.....and my son looked bad to the hitting coach.  That's how it works.  He kept working....eventually got back to his HS form at the plate and ended up DH'ing quite a bit.  If those guys had thrown him FB's down the middle all the time he'd have looked like a fool when the season started. 

Keep in mind also that it's not like HS....where a pitcher throws his best stuff and if you hit it you hit it.  Usually that "best stuff" is a FB....so you wait for one...even if it means taking a couple pitches to get to it.  In college, pitchers can throw any of their pitches for strikes.  Heck, if a team sees you struggle on your first AB with off-speed, you're not likely to see another FB the rest of the game....maybe not the rest of the series.  As a hitter you have 2 choices....hit the off-speed when you get a chance...or walk back to the dugout.  I'd tell your son to stop feeling like the pitchers are against him (even though they are...because that's THEIR JOB)...and start figuring out what to do about it. 

You said your son struggled with off speed stuff during the fall.  Any chance the coach told the pitchers to throw nothing but during these drills?  After all, a pitcher wants his off speed to either start off the plate and end up a strike, or start as a strike and end up off the plate.

Maybe he has a real good eye, can pick up the spin and take.  Or he has trouble pulling the trigger.

Don't swing at balls unless you are a really, really good power hitter.  It's ok to be on base all of the time.

As a pitcher's dad, it's advantage pitcher if you swing at balls.

Go44dad posted:

Don't swing at balls unless you are a really, really good power hitter.  It's ok to be on base all of the time.

As a pitcher's dad, it's advantage pitcher if you swing at balls.

The average impact of a ball equates to 1/15th of a runner. There are many times where that added value is less than that of making contact. It's not that someone always has to swing at balls; it's that the tool adds value to the toolbox--particularly with runners in scoring position. 

Good question.  As a few mentioned previously pitchers are being evaluated as much as batters are.  They are working on off speed pitches, using strategy, and capitalizing on the batter's weaknesses.  This is the time the hitter, your son, to show patience at the plate as long as the count dictates it. If he swings at a marginal strike then one point for pitcher, if he gets you to hit a marginal/out of the zone strike then objective accomplished by pitcher since good chance you made a weak contact.  In college once a batter's weakness is known, it spreads like wildfire.  You can count on the rest of the teams in conference will use it.  I will use my son as an example.  He was taught NOT to swing at marginal strikes with less than 2 strikes.  If he made contact a good chance it will be a lazy pop fly or weak grounder.  With 2 strikes it's a different story.  Frequently he found himself 0-2, 1-2 in the count.  He has confidence he can put the bat on the ball and in play.  Yes he did K at times.  I didn't keep stats but it seemed quite a few HRs or extra base hits occurred with 2 strikes.  It was disheartening to watch D1 players swing at marginal strikes early in the count and make a weak routine out.  Your son should work on his "weaknesses" as a hitter during extra practice time thus during games he can identify the pitch early and learn to drive the ball when needed.  Even out of the zone pitches are a learning experience.

Trust In Him posted:

Good question.  As a few mentioned previously pitchers are being evaluated as much as batters are.  They are working on off speed pitches, using strategy, and capitalizing on the batter's weaknesses.  This is the time the hitter, your son, to show patience at the plate as long as the count dictates it. If he swings at a marginal strike then one point for pitcher, if he gets you to hit a marginal/out of the zone strike then objective accomplished by pitcher since good chance you made a weak contact.  In college once a batter's weakness is known, it spreads like wildfire.  You can count on the rest of the teams in conference will use it.  I will use my son as an example.  He was taught NOT to swing at marginal strikes with less than 2 strikes.  If he made contact a good chance it will be a lazy pop fly or weak grounder.  With 2 strikes it's a different story.  Frequently he found himself 0-2, 1-2 in the count.  He has confidence he can put the bat on the ball and in play.  Yes he did K at times.  I didn't keep stats but it seemed quite a few HRs or extra base hits occurred with 2 strikes.  It was disheartening to watch D1 players swing at marginal strikes early in the count and make a weak routine out.  Your son should work on his "weaknesses" as a hitter during extra practice time thus during games he can identify the pitch early and learn to drive the ball when needed.  Even out of the zone pitches are a learning experience.

Good point....it's crazy how much other teams know about the teams they are playing.  My son said they get a very detailed "scouting report" on upcoming teams.  I asked him where it comes from....he said "I don't know, but it's got everything on it".  That includes what pitches players can and can't hit. 

Buckeye 2015 posted:

Trust In Him posted:

Good question.  As a few mentioned previously pitchers are being evaluated as much as batters are.  They are working on off speed pitches, using strategy, and capitalizing on the batter's weaknesses.  This is the time the hitter, your son, to show patience at the plate as long as the count dictates it. If he swings at a marginal strike then one point for pitcher, if he gets you to hit a marginal/out of the zone strike then objective accomplished by pitcher since good chance you made a weak contact.  In college once a batter's weakness is known, it spreads like wildfire.  You can count on the rest of the teams in conference will use it.  I will use my son as an example.  He was taught NOT to swing at marginal strikes with less than 2 strikes.  If he made contact a good chance it will be a lazy pop fly or weak grounder.  With 2 strikes it's a different story.  Frequently he found himself 0-2, 1-2 in the count.  He has confidence he can put the bat on the ball and in play.  Yes he did K at times.  I didn't keep stats but it seemed quite a few HRs or extra base hits occurred with 2 strikes.  It was disheartening to watch D1 players swing at marginal strikes early in the count and make a weak routine out.  Your son should work on his "weaknesses" as a hitter during extra practice time thus during games he can identify the pitch early and learn to drive the ball when needed.  Even out of the zone pitches are a learning experience.

Good point....it's crazy how much other teams know about the teams they are playing.  My son said they get a very detailed "scouting report" on upcoming teams.  I asked him where it comes from....he said "I don't know, but it's got everything on it".  That includes what pitches players can and can't hit. 

Spot on Buckeye 2015.  That's how you can really tell who the good hitters are.  For maybe the first 6-9 conference games hitters who have talent will excel.  It's interesting that once you get past the 1/2 way point which of these hitters still excel.  I used to think they were "hot" at the beginning then "cooled off or is in a slump, is tired, etc" the rest of the season.  In all likelihood the remaining teams based on previous scouting reports knew how to pitch to that hitter.  It's also apparent when non-conference teams are played.  My son used to have good games hitting against them, probably due to their lack of scouting reports, top pitchers getting some rest or whatever.  I recall one team putting a "shift" on my son.  Placed 2nd baseman into outfield so now had 4 equally spaced apart outfielders.  SS behind 2nd base on grass.  They would give him a base hit but no extra base gap hits.  Pitcher threw 5 pitches trying to get him to swing, ended up walking.  Oh yes, for the pitchers he faced, detailed scouting reports were available.  It's uncanny that at times son knew what type of pitch the next one was before it was even called. 

Matt13 posted:

Go44dad posted:

Don't swing at balls unless you are a really, really good power hitter.  It's ok to be on base all of the time.

As a pitcher's dad, it's advantage pitcher if you swing at balls.

The average impact of a ball equates to 1/15th of a runner. There are many times where that added value is less than that of making contact. It's not that someone always has to swing at balls; it's that the tool adds value to the toolbox--particularly with runners in scoring position. 

I'll take the hitter that doesn't swing at balls and takes walks.  And I'll also take the doubles and HR's that comes with the "I'm behind, I gotta throw a strike now" pitcher.  And I'll take the pitcher from the stretch.  And the drawn-in infield.  And the pitcher moving to fastballs with runners on. And the pissed off other eight players who lose focus because the pitcher can't throw strikes.

Don't swing at balls.  Unless you know you can drive it over the OF'ers head.  

Be Ted Williams, not Ted Merkle (He works at the grocery store because he swung at balls.)

greatgame posted:

Pitchers are also trying to earn playing time. 

Some good responses but you did not respond to the best one. My son is a frosh pitcher and all BP sessions thrown by pitchers are called live BP. His job during every live BP session right now is to compete and show that he can do so against hitters that are good enough to start and play every game. He is never throwing a pitch so that his teammates can show off their offensive skills. That would make no sense. Sounds like your son is performing well statistically, so not sure why you are concerned.

Trust In Him posted:

Spot on Buckeye 2015.  That's how you can really tell who the good hitters are.  For maybe the first 6-9 conference games hitters who have talent will excel.  It's interesting that once you get past the 1/2 way point which of these hitters still excel.  I used to think they were "hot" at the beginning then "cooled off or is in a slump, is tired, etc" the rest of the season.  In all likelihood the remaining teams based on previous scouting reports knew how to pitch to that hitter.  It's also apparent when non-conference teams are played.  My son used to have good games hitting against them, probably due to their lack of scouting reports, top pitchers getting some rest or whatever.  I recall one team putting a "shift" on my son.  Placed 2nd baseman into outfield so now had 4 equally spaced apart outfielders.  SS behind 2nd base on grass.  They would give him a base hit but no extra base gap hits.  Pitcher threw 5 pitches trying to get him to swing, ended up walking.  Oh yes, for the pitchers he faced, detailed scouting reports were available.  It's uncanny that at times son knew what type of pitch the next one was before it was even called. 

Agree with the highlighted portion.

My son started out hot his junior year.   He had transferred from a JuCo to a D2 university.   By mid-season he had hit 4-5 HR's and was batting well over .300.  Had quite a few doubles and RBI's.  At one point led the team in HR's.   As they got deeper into the conference schedule the HR's and doubles were harder to come by.   Why?   The opposing conference teams had done their homework and wouldn't give him a good pitch to hit.  Instead of FB's he was getting every manner of off speed pitch - CB, sliders, CU's and only an occasional FB, but every pitch was working the corners.  Nothing he could drive deep or in the gap. Nothing down the middle unless the pitcher made a mistake.   Still he managed to hit two more HR's and a few more doubles down the stretch.

Go44dad posted:

Matt13 posted:

Go44dad posted:

Don't swing at balls unless you are a really, really good power hitter.  It's ok to be on base all of the time.

As a pitcher's dad, it's advantage pitcher if you swing at balls.

The average impact of a ball equates to 1/15th of a runner. There are many times where that added value is less than that of making contact. It's not that someone always has to swing at balls; it's that the tool adds value to the toolbox--particularly with runners in scoring position. 

I'll take the hitter that doesn't swing at balls and takes walks.  And I'll also take the doubles and HR's that comes with the "I'm behind, I gotta throw a strike now" pitcher.  And I'll take the pitcher from the stretch.  And the drawn-in infield.  And the pitcher moving to fastballs with runners on. And the pissed off other eight players who lose focus because the pitcher can't throw strikes.

Don't swing at balls.  Unless you know you can drive it over the OF'ers head.  

Be Ted Williams, not Ted Merkle (He works at the grocery store because he swung at balls.)

Unfortunately, that's not the way it works. 

Best hitting advice about hitting curveballs I ever heard was this: “Hit the fastball when it comes”

unless a guy has real power to the opposite field, you need to learn to hit that pitch, at least for a single or to move a base runner if someone is on the bases. Hopefully it sneaks through or is a duck snort for a single. Once you figure out those pitches and how to handle them, then the pitchers REALLY have their hands full!

Thanks for all the replies. I was busy at work yesterday and couldn't keep up with the thread. I'll try to answer as best I can without going back and taking notes. 

It is inside live pitching drills. Don't know the format (forgot to ask) but, even if there are "walks" do they really matter. Yes, the coach could have told the pitchers to throw to his weakness. And yes the kid understands just because a pitch isn't a k doesn't mean it shouldn't be swung at. A CB/CU at the knees inside and outside are hard pitches to put a bat on. That's why I can say with confidence they were throwing around him. Either that or these kids were trying to make pitches they weren't capable of making. Also, the kid was pretty adamant the other players were getting much better pitches to swing at.  So much so that at some point he had had enough and made his feelings known. So much so the coach said something to him and that's kind of out of character for the kid. 

At 13U the kid took hitting from an MLB instructor. One of the first things covered was approach given the count. In a nutshell, whatever-0 the only pitch swung at is one right down the middle of your wheelhouse.  As the strike count goes up the less selective you become.

The kid attended a seminar held by Kevin Wilson a few years ago. And I quote "how do you hit a MLB CB? You hit the FB before it. How do you hit a MLB CU? You hit the FB before it because you're not hitting a well thrown MLB CB or CU".

IDK whats transpired since that phone call. The kid isn't one to share whats happing in his life good or bad. I guess in a couple of weeks we'll find out.

Ok they are throwing around him. If he wants to know why go ask the pitchers. 

Inside "live BP" is as much for the pitchers as it is for the batters.  Sure, they could very well be "pitching to his weakness", why wouldn't you?  The "format" that you said "what does it matter"...is essentially a game, but only indoors and with your own teammate at the plate.  That doesn't mean the pitchers are in there to help him....just the opposite.  The pitchers are using this time to battle for positions in the lineup, whether it be starter, reliever, closer, etc.  I can assure you with almost 100% certainty that no coach is telling them to throw enough pitches to walk any batter.  My son is a pitcher....they take the "live BP" exactly as they would an opposing batter in a real game.  They are trying to get him out...either by a K or otherwise.  It could be his best friend on the team batting and my son would strike him out 10 times in a row if he could.  That's the mindset of a pitcher....and the purpose of live BP....not "hey, I'll just throw it in there and let him hit it".   If a pitcher can't throw enough strikes to get a kid out in live BP then there's a pretty good chance he's not going to see the mound once the season starts.  If you're talking multiples pitchers over multiple sessions, I really have a hard time believing that they are all giving up important chances to impress their pitching coach and earn a position for this Spring by throwing junk pitches to your son to try to make him look bad.   Unfortunately the facts of college baseball are that there are plenty of guys who can hit....and only so many spots in the lineup.  The guys who can hit will get those spots....and if there aren't enough, the coaches will recruit more kids who can.  College coach's aren't big on "teaching kids to hit"....especially at the level your son is at.  They only need 9 or 10...and once they have them, they really don't have time to worry about the rest of the kids on the roster....but I really doubt that they are out there purposely telling pitchers to try to make a particular kid look bad by throwing around him.

Got to talk to the kid shortly today and he said the coach talked to him about his approach at the plate and a couple of things he'd like to see from him and that the following session of live pitch went much better. Didn't have time to get in depth but maybe some of you were right and the coach asked the pitchers not to give him anything over the plate. Talking about it with the wife we seem to remember the coach telling the kid after fall games they didn't bring him there to walk.  IDK, it's hard to get info out of the kid.

but I really doubt that they are out there purposely telling pitchers to try to make a particular kid look bad by throwing around him.

I never meant to imply it was about making the kid look bad rather not letting the kid make them look bad. Mostly looking for help with advice to give the kid. Like would you wait for a coach to step in, go to a coach, etc. I wish I could share the vid but it's on a password protected app. Even though this is a little corner of the web I'm not going to risk getting the kid in trouble because of something somebody posted on a bulletin board. 

Your son is in college now. It's time for you to back away and let him become the man that I'm certain that his coaches expect him to be. Your role now is to show up at whatever games you can attend and pull for the team.

It doesn't really matter what any of us here think of your description of what he's going through at this point. Whatever it is, it is his situation to deal with; not yours. He and his coaches will deal with it and help him work through whatever shortcomings he's experiencing.

If you'd like validation of this, reach out to his coaches instead of to us. Daddy-ball is over.

SomeBaseballDad posted:

Prepster posted:

Your son is in college now. It's time for you to back away and let him become the man that I'm certain that his coaches expect him to be. Your role now is to show up at whatever games you can attend and pull for the team.

It doesn't really matter what any of us here think of your description of what he's going through at this point. Whatever it is, it is his situation to deal with; not yours. He and his coaches will deal with it and help him work through whatever shortcomings he's experiencing.

If you'd like validation of this, reach out to his coaches instead of to us. Daddy-ball is over.

If you really knew me, and you knew how I interact with my son, you'd understand what a misguided and utter waste of bandwidth that post was.

I debated for a while if I should post this. In the end I decided to. I'm still undecided. Some good conservation came of it.  On the other hand, one invites post like this. Offering nothing but condemnation of someone you know nothing about. 

I also debate if I should reply to this post. After all one could argue stupidity deserves no reply. 

 

So, what do you want to hear?

That the coaches and/or the pitchers have hatched a scheme to make it impossible for your son to hit during live batting practice?

That his team's pitchers can't put a pitch over the strike zone in live practice and need to be replaced by ones who can?

That your son can't hit an off-speed or marginal pitch and needs additional work at it since he's unlikely to see a grooved fastball very often in games?

Regardless, the advice to your son is the same: "Go to your hitting coach and talk about the difficulties you're experiencing in live batting practice."  Only then can they do what they're paid to do and address his issues; whether they're his or someone else's.

Until he addresses the question head on with his coaches, all you have is a player whining to his dad; who, in turn, is whining on this forum..."hypothetically," of course. That's unlikely to solve anything.

I treat HSBBW like my personal therapy/couch session. I rant, make hysterical scenarios...ok that's more Franny, but ya know what I mean. Anyhoot SBD, you may have not found any solutions here but I hope you found some confort amongst the rest of the anxious baseball parents.

SomeBaseballDad posted:

Got to talk to the kid shortly today and he said the coach talked to him about his approach at the plate and a couple of things he'd like to see from him and that the following session of live pitch went much better. Didn't have time to get in depth but maybe some of you were right and the coach asked the pitchers not to give him anything over the plate. Talking about it with the wife we seem to remember the coach telling the kid after fall games they didn't bring him there to walk.  IDK, it's hard to get info out of the kid.

but I really doubt that they are out there purposely telling pitchers to try to make a particular kid look bad by throwing around him.

I never meant to imply it was about making the kid look bad rather not letting the kid make them look bad. Mostly looking for help with advice to give the kid. Like would you wait for a coach to step in, go to a coach, etc. I wish I could share the vid but it's on a password protected app. Even though this is a little corner of the web I'm not going to risk getting the kid in trouble because of something somebody posted on a bulletin board. 

I think and hope your kid sticks to his approach. At the end of the day it is results driven. Someone here posted the Aaron Judge article from the Athletic and the gamble he took to change his swing by way of the "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named" twitter hitting guru". I loved the title "If I'm going to fail I'd rather fail my way".

I guess I don't really see the problem here. But to answer the question of "will throwing around teammates help prepare them for the season" 

The answer is probably no. I'm sure it is helping his plate discipline, but no it is not helping him prepare for the season and truthfully it probably reflects worse on the pitcher than it looks as a positive for your son. That being said, I'm sure the pitchers are not trying to walk your son. They're trying to earn innings and starts right now. Next time he walks 2x in practice a simple joke to the PC saying - your guys going to give me anything to hit next practice? - might bring some attention to it. 

The only thing your son can do is hit when he gets the opportunity. If he wants to say something to the coach he can, but he needs to hit .400 to back it up. Can't bat .220 and complain that nothing is being thrown over the plate. I don't know what year your son is, but if he killed it in fall ball and is consistently getting on base now, I'm sure the coaches have noticed and like what they see. 

BP at any level to provide the hitter the opportunity to "slow the ball down".

When I pitched BP for the SF Giants, the hitters were always "working" on their skills. One hitter would only swing at a specific pitch in a specific zone. Another hitter would swing outside the zone. This made my control "easy".

Hank Sauer, the famous Cub then a Giants scout, grabbed a bat and jumped into the cage. I threw a "change up" and the rest is history.

Bob

SomeBaseballDad posted:

….

At 13U the kid took hitting from an MLB instructor. One of the first things covered was approach given the count. In a nutshell, whatever-0 the only pitch swung at is one right down the middle of your wheelhouse.  As the strike count goes up the less selective you become.

The kid attended a seminar held by Kevin Wilson a few years ago. And I quote "how do you hit a MLB CB? You hit the FB before it. How do you hit a MLB CU? You hit the FB before it because you're not hitting a well thrown MLB CB or CU".

….

 

We've all heard various versions of this approach thought before.  There is certainly some merit but at the same time, it makes me cringe a bit - particularly the latter example that implies that a hitter cannot hit a high level breaking ball. 

The illustration is a purposeful exaggeration that needs to be taken in context.  Yes, generally, you want to hunt FB early in the count.  that is the point that should be taken.  But there is not a successful high level hitter who doesn't know how to handle a good breaking ball at all.  It is imperative that a hitter continuously works on how best to handle CB/CU and when to expect them.  Sometimes, for a 3,4 hitter, that can mean early in the count and/or most of the time.   Good hitters can still get the barrel on a well placed off speed pitch - not with the consistency they have with fat pitches but they have the mechanics and approach to do so enough to keep pitchers honest.

Continue to hone the craft.  Eliminate holes and weaknesses.  Constant adjustments are part of the program at higher levels.

cabbagedad posted:

SomeBaseballDad posted:

….

And I quote "how do you hit a MLB CB? You hit the FB before it. How do you hit a MLB CU? You hit the FB before it because you're not hitting a well thrown MLB CB or CU".

….

 

We've all heard various versions of this approach thought before.  There is certainly some merit but at the same time, it makes me cringe a bit - particularly the latter example that implies that a hitter cannot hit a high level breaking ball. 

 

IMO the thought process of swinging at a gradually expanding zone is good but can be taken a bit far. I think you need to be ripping at any reasonable fastball early in the count and expand as needed. That will vary from hitter to hitter but they need to learn what they can handle. It should be a pitch they can hit with authority! 

I don't believe the coach is saying a hitter can't ever hit a top level off speed pitch, he is saying you aren't going to be successful very often if you are being forced to swing at those on a constant basis. They are fairly different IMO.

Bottom line as a general rule if you aren't hitting fastballs over the plate you are probably struggling. The level of play is pretty irrelevant to the rule.

If you are chasing pitches off the plate intentionally well good luck. 

Buckeye 2015 posted:

Trust In Him posted:

Good question.  As a few mentioned previously pitchers are being evaluated as much as batters are.  They are working on off speed pitches, using strategy, and capitalizing on the batter's weaknesses.  This is the time the hitter, your son, to show patience at the plate as long as the count dictates it. If he swings at a marginal strike then one point for pitcher, if he gets you to hit a marginal/out of the zone strike then objective accomplished by pitcher since good chance you made a weak contact.  In college once a batter's weakness is known, it spreads like wildfire.  You can count on the rest of the teams in conference will use it.  I will use my son as an example.  He was taught NOT to swing at marginal strikes with less than 2 strikes.  If he made contact a good chance it will be a lazy pop fly or weak grounder.  With 2 strikes it's a different story.  Frequently he found himself 0-2, 1-2 in the count.  He has confidence he can put the bat on the ball and in play.  Yes he did K at times.  I didn't keep stats but it seemed quite a few HRs or extra base hits occurred with 2 strikes.  It was disheartening to watch D1 players swing at marginal strikes early in the count and make a weak routine out.  Your son should work on his "weaknesses" as a hitter during extra practice time thus during games he can identify the pitch early and learn to drive the ball when needed.  Even out of the zone pitches are a learning experience.

Good point....it's crazy how much other teams know about the teams they are playing.  My son said they get a very detailed "scouting report" on upcoming teams.  I asked him where it comes from....he said "I don't know, but it's got everything on it".  That includes what pitches players can and can't hit. 

Likely comes from Synergy. 

2022OFDad posted:

He should use it as an opportunity to improve hitting those pitches if he is seeing those all the time. Sounds like the pitchers are giving him an opportunity to improve. Hit it where it’s pitched.

I agree. Turning on fat pitches is important but as you climb up the ladder you can't just wait until you get a fat one like in youth ball. Doesn't means you should swing at pitchers pitches 0-0 but you will need to hit some pitchers pitches at some point.

Also selective is good but many kids actually can only hit fat pitches and will even complain about pitches that are an inch inside the zone. 

That is because all they work on is crushing fat pitches.

-Tee work: put ball in the middle

-bp: coach throws balls slowly over the middle 

-game: waits for a ball over the middle or walk back to dugout

Even many pros used to practice like this but now they talk about making practice game like. 

-face fast pitches

-throw breaking balls in bp

-practice hitting balls an inch off the plate in all four corners. This is not the same as chasing. Chasing is swinging at a ball 5-10 inch outside. This is bad. But the pitch an inch outside is the pitchers strike that gets called at every level, especially college. You better get used to hit it. You don't have to hit it in every count and of course with no strikes and if your bat to ball is good even with two strikes you still wait for a fatter pitch but in mlb half of the ABs go to two strikes. You better hit those pitches and against really good pitchers even with one strike because it will only get worse.

Ted williams was right but it doesn't mean a get a dickshot or take the walk approach that is successful in little league. It means in good counts you can wait for a pitch you like and later swing at every strike and don't chase big.