A recruited walk-ons "commitment" on 11/15?

The November signing period has nothing to do with walk ons and financial aid packages

quote:

"recruited walk on"

"Recruited Walk-On": Interesting term that's been around for a bit.

What it means is the College Coach offers the student a 'walk on' status. A 'walk on' refers to the students ability to Tryout (for baseball that is Fall Tryouts). Fall Tryouts are are open to students (and sometimes student athletes from another collegiate sport) from the entire college campus (after obtaining a medical).

A Walk On status has absolutely zero committment from the Head Coach.

I would suggest (if in conversations) the coach who is offering a HS player a 'recruited walk-on status that a Spring Roster request is coupled with it.

Typically many if not all Baseball Coaches do not offer a roster spot without the walk on competing with the rostered players!

Should a roster spot not be offered, you know where you stand with the Fall squad........ie You have not made the team)

The term 'recruited walk on' has a heritage
to football recruits during Football Spring Tryouts.

Athletic dollars, as committed by the Athletic Director to incoming Freshman during the fall signing period, is a dollar commitment for one year,
is based on getting thru the College Admittance Office, and is signed by the recruit during the Fall signing period. (There is also a spring signing period.)

And yes, academic scholarships can be a part of a financial aid package.
A athletic scholarship and an academic scholarship can also be bundled as part of a financial aid package.

I hope this helps. Yet you may want to contact
the school's compliance officer (who has the most recent up to date information on the subject). The NCAA also has an 800 tele number to ask questions.

cheers,
Bear

quote:

Originally posted by Loveumbb:
If a player is a "recruited walk on" and signs some sort of academic financial aide package during the Nov. signing period and, other schools show interest during the spring, is he "committed" or can he choose to play elsewhere come spring?

A player is never prohibited from playing elsewhere, even if he has signed a NLI. He can play at JUCO, NAIA, and D3 colleges or professionally. That's because a NLI is a contract between player and college, and the only practical method of enforcement is the mutual agreement between nearly all D1 and D2 schools that they will not for one year use a player who has broken the NLI agreement.

A recruited walk-on by (informal) definition can not sign a NLI, so he is not athletically bound to any school.

Perhaps the signed academic financial aid package could be restrictive, if for example a group of colleges all agree to respect each others' early commitments.

Finally, legalities aside, I recommend only signing agreement that are intended to be kept.

I have been reading about who signs a NLI. Is the NLI only for baseball money, i.e. 25% scholarship?

What about grants, book money, financial aide and academic scholarships where no baseball money is involved. Do these players sign the NLI if thats what they are offered along with a roster spot?

Very confusing to me.

Thanks for your

NLI is only for BB money. No BB money no NLI.

I know this has all been mentioned in previous threads but that is why the Ivies and Service academies do not sign NLI's....if there is no "athletic" scholarship then there is no NLI. There might be other sources of aid (or in the case of the service academies full tuition is covered) but there is no NLI.

Bear, what is a Spring Roster request?

I am hearing more and more that, particularly for D1s, BB money is going more toward pitchers and power hitters. Mine, of course, is a position player/contact hitter. It is likely that he will get significant academic money and may not need baseball money, and he is starting to get a little more interest for that reason. I guess my question is how can we be sure that the college is taking him seriously as a baseball player when there may be no NLI because there's no BB money?

quote:

question is how can we be sure that the college is taking him seriously as a baseball player when there may be no NLI because there's no BB money?

You can't unless the coach tells him he will get a guaranteed spot on the roster.
Most coaches will say you have a shot at making the roster but very few guarantee a spot.
I think Bear is just saying that you should ask if you will get a guaranteed roster spot/

That makes sense. Thanks! The teams that were interested in him before they knew about his grades are still in the lead at this point. That gives them a little more street cred. But there is a long way to go between now and this time next year.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Most coaches will say you have a shot at making the roster but very few guarantee a spot.

That's not true anymore with the max 27 scholarships.

quote:

what is a Spring Roster request?

It's important to ask for a guaranteed spot on the spring roster. The fall roster can contain an unlimited number of players (40? 50?), meaning some will be cut after the fall, whereas the spring roster must be limited to the NCAA-imposed max roster size of 35 players.

Thank you all. When the time comes, we will ask the question.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Most coaches will say you have a shot at making the roster but very few guarantee a spot.



That's not true anymore with the max 27 scholarships.

Not sure what that has to do with it ???

The guys who get BB money are deemed by the NCAA to be on the spring roster. If the coach gives out the max 27 scholarship packages , that only leaves 8 roster spots for walk ons.. Many coaches will not give the max 27 scholarships.
You might want to ask how many spots are open.

quote:

Thank you all. When the time comes, we will ask the question.

Be careful to listen to the answer . Coaches use words that sound like a promise but in fact are only a promise to have a shot at a spot.

Great advice - thanks!

.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:

quote:

question is how can we be sure that the college is taking him seriously as a baseball player when there may be no NLI because there's no BB money?

You can't unless the coach tells him he will get a guaranteed spot on the roster. /

The next question is how much do you trust him to hold to that promise.

The next one is just exactly where does he see your son fitting into his plans/program.

44
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quote:

Originally posted by 2Bmom:
Bear, what is a Spring Roster request?

I am hearing more and more that, particularly for D1s, BB money is going more toward pitchers and power hitters. Mine, of course, is a position player/contact hitter. It is likely that he will get significant academic money and may not need baseball money, and he is starting to get a little more interest for that reason. I guess my question is how can we be sure that the college is taking him seriously as a baseball player when there may be no NLI because there's no BB money?

2BMom,

Some DI Baseball Programs, (and with the new NCAA recruiting guidelines), when offering a student a 'recruited walk on' status, will include a guaranteed roster spot in the spring. This is probably on a Program by Program basis.

However, prior to the NCAA recruiting changes, books may be the only athletic offer, $1,000 could be the only athletic offer, or simply an athletic offer of something far less than today's 25%.

Today, several players on the roster do
not receive any athletic scholarship, since the
the minimum of 25% runs out.

With regards to your statement that Baseball academic dollars going to pitchers and power hitters, I would also add the everyday players and primarily in the middle getting at least 25%, as well as starting catchers.

With regards to verification and validation from the college of it's intent......I would say that is all about Trust, Communication, Relationship and Committment. I have seen it be win-win from both view points, as well as a win-lose. Today's challenge for the players is when the NCAA pulled out it's one year 'get out of jail for free card' from Baseball, decisions and the resulting actions are more challenging to understand.

Thank you all for your help. The family in question is currently on their way for their official visit. Most of the questions regarding spring roster spot and fitting into the program were answered earlier this summer. And yes, the kid trusts the pitching coach very much. They have a great relationship. The mistake we think was made when the coaches were told that the kid is 75% Florida Bright Future qualified (means the state pays a portion of his tuition) as well parents already had college pre-paid. Thus the need to offer him $$ at this point was mute.

This whole thing is just crazy and overwhelming, especially when you don't get any support from your high school head coach. The kid did this all on his own!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Loveumbb:
This whole thing is just crazy and overwhelming, especially when you don't get any support from your high school head coach. The kid did this all on his own!!!

Tell you what...you can pay a lot of money AND do a lot worse than taking a ride on the HSBBW info train. The people here have actually been through most every situation, and know both the plan, the pitfalls and the reality of most anything the process can throw out....a simply invauable source of info.

44
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So based on the discussion above, is it accurate to say that nobody signs a NLI with Ivy League schools since they don't offer athletic scholarships?

Yes no NLI.
One thing that I wondered about is if a player got in on an athletic admit, if the NCAA could say it was athletic money because the GPA and SATs were not suficiant to warrant the aid given at an IVY ?.

Did I hear the IVY's are more based on financial need vs academic, since all the students would most likely qualify for academic money.

Yes it is needs based.
I am not sure what it costs to go to say Harvard these days, but a friend 5 years ago said it cost him $50,000 a year. He didn't say if he got academic money and he wouldn't qualify for need based money.
Where I was concerned was if a player got a little academic money and some need based money , there must be a point where they can't get any more. The gap could be substantial even though they have fairly high income levels that can still qualify for need based money.

[quote]Did I hear the IVY's are more based on financial need vs academic, since all the students would most likely qualify for academic money.[/quote

I believe all the Ivies went to a need based for the price of school.It is based on your income.

In 1954 ,8 schools formed the Ivy League. They all agreed to not offer academic money but rather needs based grants. It was a great marketing strategy. Charge a very high tuition because we all know if it is expensive it has to be good. Then they subsidized it by offering needs based money. The level of income that you can have is quite high and still get needs based money.

In my opinion if he is good enough to get a PWO offer at a DI school he can get a full or partial scholarship at a smaller DI school or DII school.

- Jessy

quote:

The level of income that you can have is quite high and still get needs based money.

For a first-hand example go to

http://www.princeton.edu/admis...ancialaid/estimator/

Fill out the information (its anonymous--its just a calculator) and it will tell you pretty close what financial aid you'd be awarded.......if you're admitted. Harvard and Yale would be pretty close to Princeton in aid, and probably most of the other Ivy's not all that far away.

You don't really have to write the big check unless you're well into 6-figures of income and/or have a lot of assets.

when it come to Harvard the cost for 2010 is about 49k
yes, understood is seems like a lot but in the long run it is worth it.. ask yourself this question if you could sell the seat on the open market how much do you think it would be worth. 25k kids apply less 8% get in. this include all those families with tons of money who's kid was nothing special just your average smart kid form a rich family . Think about this I give you $20K in athletic money which is not guaranteed for 4 years that $80K, coach could cut you at any time.
Over the lifetime of the student whom do you think will have the potential to earn more the Harvard Grad or the kid who comes from some other school .
Cost of Attendance for 2009 – 2010
Financial aid is awarded to help with all of these expenses, including an additional standard allowance for travel expenses.
Tuition $33,696
Student Services Fee $2,190
Room $7,248
Board $4,608
Total Cost $47,742

Optional vary based on Individual
Personal Expenses $3,132
Health Services Fee $1,126
Total Optional Cost $4,258

Your chances of playing pro ball are probably less than your chances of getting in .
Here is the link to the text
http://www.admissions.college....ncial_aid/index.html
http://www.admissions.college....ancial_aid/cost.html
Financial Aid
Our goal in admissions and financial aid is clear: We want to bring the best people to Harvard, regardless of their ability to pay — and we do. About 70 percent of our students receive some form of aid, with nearly 60 percent receiving need–based scholarships.
Two principles guide us:
• Admission to Harvard is need-blind, by which we mean that financial need is not an impediment to admission. International students have the same access to financial aid as United States citizens.
• Financial aid at Harvard is entirely need–based. Harvard fully supports every student who qualifies for financial aid, based on the family's ability to pay.
Removing Economic Barriers
In 2009—2010 we anticipate awarding close to $147 million in need-based scholarship assistance to our students. Our experienced staff are available year–round to speak with families encountering financial difficulty. The Committee on Financial Aid meets regularly to consider appeals for award reconsiderations based on adverse changes in family financial circumstances.
Our most recent program enhancement, announced in December of 2007, has dramatically reduced the amount we expect families to contribute to the cost of their student's Harvard education. We no longer require students to take out loans, and parents of financial aid recipients are asked to contribute on average from zero to ten percent of their annual income, with no contribution expected for families with incomes of under $60,000. Those parents with annual incomes of between $120,000 and $180,000 are asked to contribute an average ten percent of their income, with a declining percentage — from ten to zero — for parents with annual incomes between $120,000 and $60,000.
Families with higher incomes facing unusual financial challenges may also qualify for need–based scholarship assistance, yet those with significant assets at all income levels are asked to contribute proportionately more. Home equity is no longer considered in our assessment of an expected parent contribution.
Our financial aid program includes an array of financing options beyond our need–based scholarship program, such as a parent monthly payment plan, various loan programs and the opportunity to pre–pay tuition for four years at a student's freshman year rate.
There are also other forms of financial assistance such as the Faculty Aide Program, the Harvard College Research Program and the Dean's Summer Research Program that enable students to create paid partnerships with faculty members on academic projects of mutual interest. Over two thirds of Harvard students choose to work during their time in Cambridge and gain valuable job experience working in a wide array of University settings, including our libraries, dining halls, museums and academic departments.
We hope you will visit the Financial Aid Office web site for a fuller description of our comprehensive program of financial assistance.