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26 replies

A sad, but not that surprising, incident.

TCB1TCB1500+ posts
A fellow coach is in the midst of a bad situation, that I don't feel should be that "gray" of an issue. I'd like to see if I'm the only one that feels his districts response is ridiculous...

Teams were picked recently. A younger player's bat comes up missing. Several days later, word breaks that a varsity player stole the bat. After some tap dancing, the player admits to the Coach and AD that he did it. Coach immediately removes him from the team. AD and Superintendant support him

Parents call in and ask for player to be put back on the team. Coach refuses. AD and Superintendant support him. Father threatens Coach with legal action, because he believes Coach has cost his son potential scholarship. (Player is a junior.) Coach says "Well, do what you have to, I stand by my decision"

Parents call Super, tell him they are going to sue. Suddenly, he does not support Coach so much. Suggests that player should be put back on team, maybe with a suspension similar to when players are caught smoking/drinking/drugs. (That is, I belive, being suspended 20% of the games) Coach says no, he believes theft from a teammate is worse. Says if forced to put the player on the team, he will not play him.

Initially thinks about offering his resignation, then decides, and tells Super, " I won't put him on the team, and if you can't accept that, you'll have to fire me. And if you do that, I may have to get legal counsel"

Super was supposedly advised by School Districts legal counsel that if the players' parents sued, the Coach and the School wouldn't have a leg to stand on....

Does anyone else think this is utterly ridiculous? I know I'd be upset if my son did this, but I'd be upset with HIM!!... I wouldn't say the coach cost him a scholarship by kicking him off the team, I'd say he cost himself a scholarship by stealing. I know I'm biased because this Coach is a friend, but how do other coaches and parents feel? Is he being too harsh? Is it his call or the school districts? Is he wrong for disobeying a superior? I'd like others' input.

"Swing hard in case you hit something" Gary Ward

Original Post

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B Bee>1,000+ posts
quote:
Super was supposedly advised by School Districts legal counsel that if the players' parents sued, the Coach and the School wouldn't have a leg to stand on....
gee, it's tough when you're doing what YOU think is right & your bosses back off their support, AND with parents stirring things up as well

it seems like it's a no win thing for him, but on the upside . . .
can HE work in that environment & look HIMSELF in the mirror??


good luck to him, & a POX on the thief


.
Last edited by Bee>
deebotdeebot10+ posts
What ever happened to integrity? It isn't too suprising that a kid would take another kid's bat, that kind of thing does happen. What I don't understand is this: it is a parents responsibility to point out how wrong it is to steal. What are we teaching our kids when this type of action is defended to the point of legal recourse against a coach doing the right thing? I am sorry but this should not be tolerated by the school board or super and I can't believe they are not backing their coach. Shame on them!
Last edited by deebot
08Dad08Dad1,000+ posts
The law doesn't always make sense - and neither do those who are afraid of it... You just have to do the right thing and let the legal people worry about the details.

So the AD forces the coach to take the player back - but then can he be forced to play him? What about his spot in the batting order - perhaps the player's legal advisors prefer him to bat in the three spot instead of the 5 hole. It is a very slippery slope that the AD/Super are heading down...

As others have said - what happened to integrity and taking responsibility for your actions.

Shaking my head in disgust...
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
I think the coach should resign as he said he would. There are times in life when doing the right thing will cost you everything but it still must be done. I believe this is one of them.

A short story and unrelated to these circumstances but similar consequences. About 12 years ago, I had three small children at home and needed my job of course to pay the bills. Due to my particular area of expertise, they asked me to run some additional engineering software tests on a control system that was due to ship at weeks end. During the tests, I discovered a serious flaw that I felt could potentially cause harm to people and/or property. When I raised the issue to management, they wanted to keep the ship date but merely update product literature to warn people. I felt this was an unacceptable solution because the problem could occur accidentally and relatively easily regardless of warning.

Right away, higher up types in the food chain started to put heavy pressure on me. Several of my peers were upset because I even raised the issue. In short, they wanted to bury this one. In a meeting in front of all the brass, I said if you ship this product, I have no choice but to resign my position immediately. I felt a lump in my throat when I said that. We ended up re-designing the system before shipment. I had many people pull me aside in private after that and said they admired what I did. I said I had to go with my conscience. Some felt I had betrayed them. I didn't ask to be put in that position but I was.

I know that story is not related to baseball, but sometimes you just have to do what you feel is the right thing. Shame on the parents of this young man.
L larrythompson500+ posts
What a horrible situation! I really feel for the coach. The school system is so anti-coach it is unbelievable. I wonder if the parents would be so quick to threaten a law suit if the family of the child who was stolen from decided to pursue criminal theft charges against the offending player? Hate to get the lawyers involved, but sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.
T theEH1,000+ posts
That would be great on the Kids report.
"At my HS I Made the Coach Resign On Princeable.
Because I was Caught, Stealing a Bat".
The Parents would be better off to let it go.
And maybe, just Maybe things would be forgiven/ and forgotten
Next Year.
Word will get around and they ( the Parents ) could do more Harm then good for there Son's Chances to play at the next Level. JMHO the EH
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
Dan it is exactly the same thing. It is about integrity.
I don't think he should resign because his wronfull dissmissal would dwar the parents case. They have no leg to stand on and the resulting publicity would really seal his fate.
It really is amazing that parents take that attitude. I would be mortified and feel I had been a failure in bringing my son up.
Staeling from a teammate is the lowest of low and next he will steal from his boss.
A very promissing pitcher for the Jays was called up to play with them and he was caught stealing from the locker room. I have never hear of him since and that was atbout 5 years ago.
L lhpx2100+ posts
We had a very similar situation during my middle son's senior year. A fellow senior (who had a verbal offer from a DI school) stole an entire bat bag full of equipment from a sophomore. He was caught when he tried to sell the items at Play It Again Sports (duh!). The coach tossed him off the team, the parents also threatened to sue, because the college was pulling their scholarship offer. The team had a meeting and the PLAYERS voted to keep the player off the team. The principal and the superintendent were then happy to give their support and the lawsuit never happened. The player, by the way, went on to play at a junior college and is now finishing up his degree close to home. I think he learned a lot from the experience.
J Jazzman10+ posts
In this situation there are two things that should have been done right away. The first is look at the school policies as approved by the Board of Ed. The second is look at the Student/Athlete Handbook, as approved by the BOE. The Superintendent and AD should base their decision off these two resources. Any deviation will only cause more problems in the future because when you don't follow the policies you establish precedence. School Business Managers have a saying, "No good deed goes left unpunished". Althought, in this situation, this is not a good deed, the school and Administration will create more problems in the future because they choose not to follow their own policies.
As far as the law suit, until you put on notice by an attorney and then an official suit is filed nothing has happened. If a law suit is filed it will be turned over to the Liability Insurance Co. and their attorneys will handle it.

There are moral issues involed, but from where I sit everyday, policy and precedence is far more important. I have to make decisions based on policy and the law (IRS an Labor), not on whether I like a person or feel bad for their situation. If the coach likes what he's doing and has enjoyed being with this team I would not quit during the season. After the season he can evaluate the situation and do what he feels is in his best interest.
T TW344100+ posts
Jazzman:

You make an excellent point regarding Policies and Proceedures of the School System and this particular school itself. The statement in the original post that caught my interest was the Superintendant's [belated to be sure] suggestion that the coach should discipline the young man, who apparently "after some tap dancing" admitted that he stole the bat, "similar to when players are caught smoking/drinking/drugs."

Some have argued that stealing a bat is worse that those three but it could be asked, if stealing is that bad, why is it not given its own catagory in the School Systems Policies and Proceedures Manuals as is, apparently, "smoking/drinking/drugs". If the school does not have a sepecific sanction somewhere in its Manual for theft and the high school baseball coach has nothing in his handouts or whatever that is given to the players about theft and discipline for that offense, his power and authority to discipline players comes from and through the school system and not through some inherent right to dole out punishment as he sees fit.

I, of course, have not read any Manuals, Handouts, or anything else that might help perdict how this matter might be resolved in a court of law. And, from what I can discern, neither has anyone else who has posted so far. But if the Superintendent was advised by the School District's legal counsel that "if the parents sued, the Coach and the school wouldn't have a leg to stand on" as is suggested in the original post that started this thread, I would take that as strong evidence that there is nothing in the the School's Policies and Proceedures Manual about the appropriate discipline for theft because I am pretty sure the School District's lawyer knows what the Manual says.

Just my opinion, of course.

TW344
W windmill100+ posts
Another classic example of what is wrong with the way many of our youth [yutes??] are being raised. Whatever happened to taking responsibility for your actions??? The parents are setting their kid up for failure. The facts are clear:

1- Player's eqpt was missing
2 - Another player ADMITTED to stealing it

That is all that matters. Coach has done the offending player as well as the whole team, a TREMENDOUS favor, and taught them a valuable lesson, by booting him from the team: you break the rules, you pay for it. THIS IS THE WAY LIFE IS SUPPOSED TO WORK!!

I would hate to see him resign; that would only exaccerbate this problem we have in society, and teach his players the wrong thing. "Even if you are wrong, if you bark loud enough, the other guy will back down." I think Coach should force them to fire him, if he doesn't agree with their spineless re-decision to reinstate the thief. And then he should make it known to all, including the newspapers, the names of all involved and what side of the fence they stood on. Next School Board election should be interesting. To me, lawyers should not be involved [personally, I don't think they should EVER be involved]. It's not a LEGAL issue - it's a moral issue, it's a team issue.

All the stupid parents care about is the scholly!!! What about his life??? WHo is going to excuse his next malfeasance??

All legal BS aside, any coach has the right to cut any kid for any reason, but especially for rules infractions. Maybe ther handbook doesn't state "Thou shalt not steal from thy teammates", but it always fits under the "conduct detrimental to the team" clause.

I feel for the guy, but kudos to him for doing the right thing!!! clap
Last edited by windmill
CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
Sadly, this coach didn't call the Police and so, he got a confession probably from a minor and didn't involve the law. I'm sure that is what the school district lawyer is saying to the superintendent. It's sad because the coach, in my opinion, is doing the right thing. Some issues, as a coach or person in general, involve you reflecting on your values system. I was once forced to do that by an administrator. Without divuldging any particulars, that's why I'm here at my present school. As I was once told by my former administrator, "Coach Butler, one day you'll thank me." I DO EVERY DAY! I feel for this coach because he will now have to look at his family and the kids he coaches and make some choices. Eight years down the road, I'd have to say I'd make the same choices again.
Last edited by CoachB25
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
You can bet your last dollar this guy if he can steal from his teammates he is going to do worse latter in life if he is not taught a severe lesson now.
With the threat of legal action you have no choice but to report it to the police. This is documenting the incident for the protection of the school and the coach. The 1st thing the insureres will ask is if it was reported and a report made.
I also feel sorry for the kid but it is not the end of the world and maybe a life changing experience. It would definitely be the end of playing for thye coach.
C Coachric1,000+ posts
None of us want to be sued or be involved in a public court case. But talk about keeping up standards and integrity, I know it is hard, but I would tell the Super to bring on the lawsuit. Get the story from the kid who's bat was stolen, make a report on that, check the legal side of what can and cannot be revealed about the Thief. Get a good attorney of your own, and let the judge decide. By the way, ask for a hearing outside the school district if possible, and Don't let the Thief back on the team.
H Hakko93610+ posts
I think the coach is going to lose this battle, but he shouldn't. The reaction of the administrators when threatened with legal action is pathetic.

The only thing more pathetic than reaction of the administrators is the behavior of the parents.

I understand them not being happy about their son getting kicked off of the team. Instead of pushing for his being put back on the team, they should be hoping that being kicked off teaches the young man something before he gets himself into big trouble.
StyleMismatchStyleMismatch100+ posts
quote:
Instead of pushing for his being put back on the team, they should be hoping that being kicked off teaches the young man something before he gets himself into big trouble.



B-I-N-G-O!!!!

I personally know of a high schooler who was found to be under the influence of pot while in class. In addition to agreeing to his being expelled from school, the parents insisted that the law be called and the teen's car searched. The family threw the book at this young man, went through some very trying times with counseling etc., but after it all the young man finished adult high school on his own, went to vocational school on his own, and is now self employed and raising a family.

It's sad that so many families cover up for their kid's screw-ups. At some point young men and women need to learn to take responsibility for their actions - the baseball player mentioned in this thread is being denied that opportunity.
R Redhawks 2710+ posts
Recently at a very prestigious Catholic high school here in the St. Louis area, 4 of the best players on the baseball team were caught smashing mail boxes and were kicked off the team. I heard one parent threatened to sue but ultimately chose otherwise. The school never budged and supported the coach. The difference here is that them being a private school with a reputation at stake, they have an easier time with situations like this. Since you have to apply to go to school there, they can get rid of you for failure to follow their rules.

Public high schools are becoming a joke. Johnny screws up, gets some form of discipline and the parents threaten lawsuits and all of a sudden, Johnny is out of trouble. Police have to be involved in everything. The kid can't play ball if he's on probabtion or behind bars. Kids need to understand that there are consequences for improper behavior.

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