A very sad situation

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Interesting ! Now it;s the coaches fault.
Anyone who doesn't realize that injury put your scholly at risk is kidding themseves.
If the coach loses his job due to poor success, who is going to stap up and pay his bills ? Every level you reach is a new reality.

Nobody will step up and pay his bills or find him a new job. On the other hand, if he was so concerned about it, why would he recruit a 2 sport athlete without trying to get him to not play 2 sports or explaining the consequences? It can only be a lack of integrity on the coaches part. As I said, "It amazes me how hard it is for people to do the right thing and how they rationalize poor behavior by telling people welcome to the real world. That does not excuse poor behavior."

So to your point. Yes, it is the coaches fault if he is not up front about voicing his concerns to the player. Does that mean that he cannot be hard and do what this coach did? Not at all. He can do what he wants. Over time though, as the word gets around, players will play elsewhere if they are 2 sport athletes. Some of the better college players were 2 sport athletes in HS. What I am talking about is integrity. Integrity is like whizzing in the shower. Only YOU really know.

And if your player sucks and loses his schyolarship who's fault is that ? I guess that is the coaches fault too.
This isn't HS.
OSU has 44 top players vying for spots on the team. I guess the word hasn't got out.
I hope we don't shower in the same shower!

No need for being rude or condescending. I thought this was a conversation. Why so personal?

quote:

And if your player sucks and loses his schyolarship who's fault is that ? I guess that is the coaches fault too.
This isn't HS.

That has nothing to do with what I was talking about. That is about performance. I was talking about integrity. If the player doesn't work hard enough and cannot compete, that is all his fault and should be cut. On this I do not agree with Ron Polk. He told me that if he recruits a player, it is for 4 years. If the player cannot play Polk feels it is his fault. I happen to not agree. Everybody knows that baseball schollys are for a year to year basis.

I was not pointing fingers, but rather pointing out different obligations and different interpretations by different coaches. If you happen to feel that the coach has no moral obligation to be honest, or if it doesn't work out that he can cut someone loose. Well they can do that. Nothing is stopping them from it. Yes it is the way of the world. Yes it happens all the time. Yes, I would council a player to realize what can happen. However, to say that because it is the way of the world and that makes it morally or ethically right is not the way I choose to beleive. I hold myself to a higher standard. That is my choice. That doesn't mean that I am finger pointing or naive about the world. I choose to have integrity and choose not to be cynical. I have no control over what others do. I can however, distinguish right from wrong without confusing what you can and cannot do as being the indicator of what is right and wrong. JMO

quote:

I hope we don't shower in the same shower!

Thanks for the offer, but you are not my type. I know about my integrity. I am not so sure of others.

Not being personal or condescending.
Some people are more touchy than others and take things personally.
You are making a personal judgement on what you think integrity is. I don't agree with you take on the OSU situation or do I agree with mentioning names. You are relying on a 3rd party for the facts. A person of integrity doesn't do that. I have heard many upset parents who flat out lie about what happened to their son's who have had scholarships pulled.
When my son injured himself in BKTB in his last year of HS we were concerned about his scholarship but the injury wasn't serious. We knew we had to keep him healthy and that he chose to accept a scholarship and felt he should show up inj shape and ready to play
I followed players who were at a D1 and were recovering from TJ surgery. One was at a D1 for 2 years and was not able to perform. He was cut after soph year and is now back ready to go. Coaches don't have the luxury of carrying guys like they did before.
I wouldn't rely on 3rd party info to chastize a program. Ron Polk is a tough coach and I would expect him to make tough decisions when he has to. I am sure he has his detractors just like many. others

Don't see how what I said is an offer.

I have been on the internet way too long to take things personally. I did not. Actually, I was inquiring as to why your response was somewhat personal. Apparently you did not mean it that way. Some people express themselves more eloquently than others. I have trouble reading between the lines. I will work on getting better at that.

Of course I am making a personal judgment on integrity. I stated very clearly that it was my choice.

I am not asking you to agree with me on the OSU situation. I am giving my opinion. Same as you.

The only name I mentioned was from a conversation that I had with a coach of a program. Whether you agree with it or not is not your place. I am allowed to relay my conversational experience with others. I did not say anything negative about anybody. Unless you consider my opinions of Ron Polk as having high integrity as somehow breaking a trust. I am sure he would be OK with it.

I never relied on a third party for "facts". I simply stated hypotheticals. "If" this, "then" that. This is a website/ forum. We give opinions here. I did not chastise a program. I mearly pointed out that bad behaviors may have consequences. I don't know what you were reading.

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I wouldn't rely on 3rd party info to chastize a program. Ron Polk is a tough coach and I would expect him to make tough decisions when he has to. I am sure he has his detractors just like many. others

Huh?

Well this has run its course. My brain is starting to hurt.

Mirriam-Webster definition of integrity: 1. firm adherence to a code of especially moral or artistic values: incorruptibility

I prefer the Bible's definition, as found in Matthew 5:37 - "Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one."

Kindly go back and read the start of this thread. This is NOT a matter of opinion, it is a matter that includes a threat by the coach. This is the quote from the first post:

"It's a one year deal, and if you don't give it up, we won't renew it, and you won't have a roster spot as a sophomore."

If you want to defend the person who said this(coach)??????????????

Does anyone really know the true story?

What were the discussions prior to signing?

We are only hearing on be side and it is not even the parents

A lot of actual details can be missing in this discussion

RobK is a 3rd party and related a story told to him. The real story may be far from what he is told even if by a parent. 1st party is the guy who had his scholly withdrawn and they can't always be believed.
Inference that is a coach has no integrity is what you have done and it is based on a 3rd pary story.
Way to easy to roast a coac/program that isn't here to defend itself.

It would have been an interesting tale if the program wasn't mentioned. You could have knocked youself out with all the moral indignation you could muster up.

Besides the reality of what happened or how it was perceived I think it would of been better if the poster left the name of the school out of the story.
Again they havent had the benefit to explain themselves, probably would of had some more posters thoughts, I really tend to stay away from any types of threads that name specific teams, coaches even talking about someones player by name. Too many people come on this board and I think people need to be careful of what they say.
the situation could be talked about leave the program out of it. And mentioning the coaches, I have heard very good things about these coaches as well. Thats just my opinion. Not to offend original poster just a suggestion for the future. To me I wouldnt want my name and program mentioned unless I could defend my position.

I never relied on a third party for "facts". I simply stated hypotheticals. "If" this, "then" that. This is a website/ forum. We give opinions here. I did not chastise a program. I merely pointed out that bad behaviors may have consequences. I don't know what you were reading.

In my son's experience with D1 ball, coaches in general don't care about really teaching skills or mentoring to their players. It's a factory job! Putting your time and energy on your education is the most important thing during the college years. That's what college is about -- an education! This poor economy is going to make that education even more valuable. Five games a week at the D1 level will kill your grades if you are getting a real degree.

DD I don't agree with your statement. My son is a SR at a very good academic college. His GPA drops in the spring semester a bit due to missed classes but he studies constantly. He studies on the buss and in the hotel at away games.
If his college had easy courses he would tell me and not want to waste his time there. I know at least 4 others who have graduated from the college and they were top students here and all said it was a tough school or I wouldn't let him go there.
His coaches didn't really know enough about pitching and other parts of the game and have since been let go. The college has hired better qualified coaches and a pro P coach plus devoting mew energies and funds to the BB program. My son's biggest complain was that the coaches held them at the ball park while he needed to study for exams etc. They were very disciplined about taking care of the diamond before they could do their studies. Despite all the missed classes he has always been an honors student and values the quality of the academics.
I would also suggest that a college education is more than just marks and grinding. The real world will let you know that soon enough. A college degree will not necessarily save you from the harsh realities of a tough economy.

My son went to a program where he was taught and mentored and checked every 3-4 weeks to make sure he was doing well in class. So I can't agree with the above as a broad statement.

One can put their time and energy into the classroom and into playing a sport. Often times (maybe not in this case) coaches take the rap when our kids just have trouble doing both. This is a personal decision, if you want to take a difficult major, you are going to work very hard at balancing both. Know ahead of time this isn't going to be an easy task, no matter where you go play.

In the recruiting process, we made sure that doing well in school was high on the coaches list too. During recruiting, just ask to see the team's accumulative GPA, that gives you an idea sometimes about what is important, I am not sure many folks ask that question. You might also ask what is recommended. In son's case we were told up front that the more difficult degrees at the school were difficult to follow with their baseball schedule. This is up to the recruit, as part of the homework process.

Getting back to the original post, one thing that has to be realized. College baseball is not always gonna be what we think it should be, and that is what we think is fair treatment for everyone. But it's about getting the job done, whatever that is for a particular program, the coach will use the best players he can get and if that means taking away a scholarship to give it to someone else, it's going to happen, and it happens often. It doesn't make the coach a bad person. If you recruit someone expecting them to play and they can't (for whatever reason), they move on.

Think of this in relation to your household budget during these tough times. You will get rid of the things you don't need, and keep the things you do.