AAA State Semi-Final Matchups

Ha!  That's great.  And thanks for the kind words.  I've enjoyed writing those pieces this year.  Here's another one you may find interesting - about the insane 1979 Colonial District title race, which wound up in a four-way tie and necessitated a separate tie-breaker tournament before the actual district tournament: http://virginiapreps.rivals.co...tent.asp?CID=1505181 

 

So as not to hijack this thread totally, let me just say that, as much as I would love to see a Hanover / Great Bridge final with both aces pitching, and that may happen, I think GB beating Lake Braddock without Jones playing some kind of role is going to be a tall order.  But both semi-finals are very intriguing.

I was umpiring 3rd base for that game.  They credited the right fielder for an error that led to the only run.  So Carter lost the game and threw a no-hitter!  Only took about 1:10 to play that one.  Denbigh had runners in scoring position in multiple innings but couldn't push anything across.

You've jogged my memory some more ... wasn't it a no-hitter for Carter and a one-hit shutout for McGuire?

 

P.S.  Do you have to give back any pay when the games go that quickly? 

 

Yes that is correct. carter threw a no-hitter. I'll add to the archives theme. Here's my recap on Vapreps from June 2007.

 

http://virginiapreps.rivals.com/admin/editcontent.asp?Edit=1&co_key=680320&SID=914

BTW, sunshine in Chantilly (as of 8am). Play Ball !!!

Will - I don't think others can see that kind of link.  Here's the regular link to the Carter vs. McGuire game.

I'm providing updates as per usual, at VirginiaPreps here: http://virginiapreps.rivals.com/forum.asp?sid=914&fid=721&style=1  and on Twitter (@CRTomGarrett)

Great Bridge went to Connor Jones with one out in the fifth, up 8-3.  Surprising, at least to me, that they would use him in that situation, given the rules.

Shocked they're sticking with Jones.  He could have started the title game and gone the distance.  Not anymore.  This is his second inning.  I think this is a mistake.

Is he now considered to have pitched in two innings?  If so, given the Championship game is tomorrow, is he done?  The pitching rules still confuse me.

It's two innings, and he cannot pitch tomorrow, by rule.  I'm really stunned they would do this.  This is great news for Hanover / Oakton winner.  Not that it's a lock.

That was my understanding as well, but have seen some things this year that have created confusion from time to time.

 

You certainly have to win today to play tomorrow, but I think that Cody is capable of getting 6 outs with a 5 run lead.  I am surprised.

 

The twitter feed I am following suggests that Jones came in got a 1-6-3 to get them out of things in the 5th inning.  Then came back in the 6th.  At that point the 7th becomes irrelevant as a single pitch constitutes an inning.  (that is, if the twitter remarks are accurate)

If it's my Twitter feed, it's accurate.

 

Jones pitched 2.2 IP (3 innings for purposes of the rule).  He's done, barring a rain miracle tomorrow afternoon.

While it's easy to question the use of Great Bridge's pitchers today, remember that GB lost a 9-2 lead to Kellam just last week and a lot of runs can be scored at that field in a hurry.  I think the coach was taking no chances in giving himself a chance to play for a championship tomorrow and he did that.  

 

L.Harrelson did a good job of going 4 1/3 innings of 4 hit, 3 run ball, the big blow by LB a 2 run hr by the #3 hitter Driscoll (?).

All the GB damage was done in the 5th inning when GB sent 9 men to the plate before the first out was recorded.  5 hits, 1 hbp, 1 error and 2 walks before the first out. Throw in another walk, another hbp and you score 8 runs.

Nothing against Charlie Cody because he is a phenomenal player (not a pitcher), but didn't Cody come into the Kellam game late in the Regional Championship game and wasn't Jones eligible to come into that game?  I would be hard pressed to question a coach whose team is playing in the State Championship game tomorrow.  He made the decision to not look past the game he was in.  I'm sure there are other high school coaches out there watching that would like to trade places with Coach Townsend. 

I guess I'm not as deferential as you guys.  Nothing personal, I would just rather take my chances at getting six outs with a five-run lead and have the best pitcher in the state for the title game.

Hanover beats Oakton 9-8.  Casey closed it, but only threw one inning.  He can pitch six tomorrow.

Tom, have you seen a ruling on that? 

 

To me, the rule says he can only go 3 tomorrow.

 

Because he threw 7 on Tuesday, he has to have 4 days of rest before he would be eligible to go more than 3 innings.  While he only threw one inning today, and thus is eligible to pitch tomorrow, you can't count today as if it was a day of rest.  He didn't rest today, he pitched.

 

I think if Casey takes the mound for the 4th, Hanover forfeits.  So they had better be careful that they get a ruling from VHSL before they just assume he can go 6.

As to the GB game, to me the big thing was the score.  I would've stuck with Harrelson with 2 on and 1 out in the 5th.  I would've been confident that I could hold Jones out until the tying run might come to the plate, because I would've felt like no one was going to score off Jones in any event.  I would've tried to hold him for 7 on Sunday unless and until it became apparent that there wasn't going to be a Sunday otherwise.

 

I don't know if they could've held LB to no more runs, as Jones did.  But I feel like they had 4 runs to work with.

Honestly - you may be right.  If I'm Dragum (or Stratton) I make DARN sure what the rules are.

 

Also, this is why this rule is stupid: The fact is that the rule, as written, does NOT reference this exact scenario.  Very frustrating.

I will say there is some ambiguity in the rule with respect to Casey's eligibility.  If I were coaching Hanover, I would ask the tournament director on site for a ruling on that tonight, so that I could plan as well as possible for tomorrow.

 

Generally I would expect Casey to hold 'em for 3, but after that, it's Katy bar the door.  Could end up a sloppy finale and who knows who comes out on top.

I still can't get past the fact that someone thinks it's unsafe for (e.g.) Derek Casey to pitch six innings tomorrow.

 

Having said that, I said at the beginning of the year that I wouldn't be surprised to see either (1) the state final turn into a mockery (which likely won't happen, thanks to that extra rain day), or (2) someone not understand the rule (or be told something incorrect) and wind up forfeiting somewhere along the line (which hasn't happened yet).

Midlo- you need to ignore your hearsay report. Great Bridge is fully aware that rest is required, and Jones was not talking about a start tomorrow. 

Yeah, that seems hard to believe.  Especially since one thing the rule DOES say is that a week is "any 7-day period).

Having said that, if Great Bridge does start Jones tomorrow, can I just leave after the first pitch?

 

BTW, a player for Hanover just passed along that they believe Casey can go six.  Like Midlo Dad, I'm still not convinced.  If I'm Hanover, I literally might ask for something in writing before the game tomorrow.

 

The worst part?  We're 15 hours from the last state AAA championship game, and all we can talk about is this rule.

More reliable information now, that Matthews will start for Great Bridge. 

Midlo,

That information is correct.

Helluva game between Oakton and Hanover. Total of 19 hits? Very few defensive miscues. Close plays. Some bombs. Everything you would want out of a baseball game.

That throw by Knizner to home from deep short got lost in the shuffle, but that was a super play.

Midlo,

I spoke to Connor Jones after the game and he knew he couldn't pitch tomorrow. Your sources are inaccurate.

This is an article from Dave Johnson of the Dailypress which details a forfeit by Denbigh against Woodside. The pitcher threw one inning the day before and was limited to three innings according to the article.

 

Dailypress

http://www.dailypress.com/spor...30509,0,3023918.post

Thanks for posting this, Will.  This seems like a similar fact pattern, and definitely sheds some light on the situation.  Of note is the fact that someone who was asked to clarify the rule apparently didn't get it right, either, but that did not save Denbigh from having to forfeit.

 

Hence, why I reiterate that, if someone from the VHSL or the tournament director said Casey could throw more than three innings without any penalty, I would ask to have that in writing.

 

I should point out, though, that there is one key difference in the Denbigh situation and the Hanover one, as follows:

 

Denbigh plays Friday night - kid pitches 5 innings.

Saturday rest day

Sunday rest day

After TWO rest days, the kid pitches 1 inning.

Kid pitches seven the next night.

 

Here, Casey had THREE rest days before he threw the one inning.

 

In other words, even if the Denbigh kid hadn't pitched the one inning, he would have had three rest days, and been limited to three innings on Tuesday.

 

So, I'm still not 100% sure.

Since the last info I got from someone else was wrong, I'll identify the source this time around.

 

Eric Kolenich of the Times-Dispatch indicates that VHSL has issued a ruling that Casey may go up to 6 innings today.

 

I honestly don't know how they get that out of the rule as written, applying standard rules of English language usage.  But the authorities have spoken so Hanover can go forward in the clear. 

The precedent would seem to be that a one-inning outing qualifies as a day of rest?

I just got off the phone with a VHSL official and he indicated Derek Casey can go six innings today. I didn't ask to explain the circumstance but Derek Casey is eligible for six innings today.

Will,

 

Are you going to post updates from the game today?