Abusive Coach

quote:

Originally posted by Matt13:

quote:

Originally posted by njbb:
Have you heard the way they talk to professional baseball players.

That would be relevant if this was professional baseball.

If a pro manager argues with me and says, "That's a horse**** call," that's life. If a high school manager argues with me and says that, he's done (and in most places, gets an automatic suspension.) The standards of behavior are FAR different.

I was commenting on the statement "You can't get away with it in any professional business

I was thinking about something more like an office setting not professional sports which are a universe onto itself that very few people get into. Despite the reality TV if any boss swears at employees as a way to motivate or develop them they will eventually face the music.

quote:

Originally posted by 6killer:
TRhit....

The mud incident.

Then during BP, before a game boasting about the incident to other players and calling my son an idiot for taking it.

Making references to my son's sexual orientation. Telling the other players he is ***. (no he is not)

Claiming that one of the JV players is a better hitter, no biggie, there is always someone better. But his intentions are to be-little and break down character in front a audience.

During one of their games my son had a nice base hit on a hit and run and was told he sucked when he got to first. AC coaches first.

He has tried to change my son's catching style from soft hands to "jab and grab" and then informs the HC that my son cannot catch.

etc etc etc...

.

This is very strange, this guy actually does all of this stuff and no one else is aware? Have you ever seen or heard any of this?

You do have to be careful, and accusations have to be accurate.


I am hearing your side 6killer, and I feel for your son if this is really happening but there are two sides to every story and people perceive things differently.

Sit down with your son, have an honest conversation, if this is really bothering him, if this is just happening to him and if he needs your help stand by his side and help to make things right.

quote:

Originally posted by slotty:

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
is the boy strong enough to stand up to th ac?

TRhit: With all due respect (and I do respect your opinions and all that you have put into this board), no CHILD should be put into the inhrently mis-matched position of having to "stand up" (and what the heck does that mean, anyway?) to an ADULT who ridicules him, calls him names that question his sexual preference, or kicks mud in his direction for no other purpose than to intimidate or humiliate him in front of his peers.

"Standing up to the AC" doesn’t have to be in anger, rebellion, or in anyway hostile. Humor is sometimes the best way to naturalize people like this. You can do almost anything if you can do it (ie. kick dirt back) say it (ie. Is your boyfriend here watching the game) with a smile. Sometime we need to laugh at ourselves with others to naturalize the situation. I would attempt to make him laugh and work all the harder to prove my worth as a person and a ball player. Remember do it with a smile and in good humor. I have told my son, "make it make you laugh before it makes you mad".

still waiting to hearwhere daddy heard all this stuff---- was he ther to see and hear it?

TR,
When was the last time you heard of an adult doing those types of things to a kid in front of other adults?

how much of what he heard was verified

First thing I would do, personally, is ask some of the other boys if what your son is describing is accurate. If this AC is doing this stuff in front of the other players then it should be well known. If it is confirmed then I would take it to the AD and the district right away.

TR, I don't get you. Maybe you are playing devil's advocate here but instead of saying 'make sure this stuff is true, you seem to run on the bent that the kid is automatically lying. You say the kid should take care of it himself but how do you suggest that he do that? It is real easy to throw out little one or two sentence comments but you haven't contributed anything? Should the kid get in the AC's face? On my son's team that would be an automatic suspension from the head coach and probably expulsion from the team. If the AC is doing half of what this kid is saying then confronting him will get him exactly the kind of action that this coach wants.

These are kids, not adults. This coach is an employee of the school district and as such has to abide by the same policies that the rest of the educators do. There is no room for derogatory sexual comments or assaults on students, whether it is in the classroom or on the ballfield. Woody Hayes is dead.

someone once said there are 3 sides to a story one side the other side and the truth

TRhit

Relations between my son and AC were great until teams were posted.

The change in my son's attitude is enough verification for me.

Think what you will.

6killer
My son had a similar coach in HS. Actually a really nice guy when he wasn’t coaching but he liked to pull a lot of nonsense with players and attempted to coach through intimidation. Without going through the individual incidences that I witnessed, let me give you what I learned through the process as far as dealing with it seeing that you do not want to go to the AD.

It is good that your son comes to you and tells you the frustration he has with the coach. It is an outlet that he might not have anywhere else. You are his venting place. I suggest to you not to show a bunch of anger when he informs you of these instances of “bullying”. If you take the “I will go to jail for my family attitude” there is a good chance your son stops telling you about these things. No reason to take that attitude anyway. He is able to deal with it because he could tell you and vent. If he becomes hesitant to tell you because of your reaction, he loses that outlet and everything will become harder on him to deal with. So the answer to “What can I do?” is let him be angry, but eat yours. Be there to give him advice. If you give advice through anger, it will probably be wrong advice anyway. And you begin to vent to him instead of him to you.

My son asked me not to approach the coach or anyone else, nor was I planning to unless he asked me to step in. I empathized with him but told him he could get through it and would be better for it. He wanted to deal with the situation by just playing baseball and ignoring the nonsense as best he could. I learned not to blow up and just be there as an outlet for him. If he lost that ability to sound off every now and again it would have made the situation harder to deal with. He got through it, and is better for it. At this point my son is away at college playing baseball, and I knew when I dropped him off back in August that he was armed with enough life experiences that he would succeed with whatever situation arises on or off the ball field.

shortnquick,

I think that is excellent advice.

Some good advice on here, hope it works out for your son and he continues to love the game.

Trhit your responses are terrible.

SnQ.....Thanks for the advice. It is the path we are trying to follow.

It is hard not to step in when you see your child struggling.

Thanks to all.

Six

A lot about sports is building mental toughness. If you get upset because the coach says something stupid - like you didn't make 10 free throws - then what are you going to do when you face some trash talking kid. I am not saying that the coach's actions are right, but at some point you need to distinguish between preping the kids to be mentally tough and real abuse. Saying "you suck" etc. might hurt his "esteam" but sometimes needs to be said to toughen them up. Granted, some kids react differently -- and knowing what works for each athlete is what makes good coach.

quote:

Originally posted by Golfman25:
...some kids react differently -- and knowing what works for each athlete is what makes good coach.

Umm, Yes and Yes.

Short stop makes a great diving catch behind the bag at 2nd into center field. One coach says Wow, amazing catch you are the best while another says get a better jump on it.

The kid who has the get a better jump coach might actually push himself more. Both comments are right though. It's a fine line coaches walk. A small number of them abandon good sense and at that point teaching our kids to handle things on their own is our gift to our kids.

quote:

It's a fine line coaches walk.

and the line keeps getting finer by those who define the line

I think the real problem is we all have our own definitions.
The coach in question here if he is using *** slurs has crossed all lines and that should be brought to his attention.

I do not ask for my kid to be babied, only equity in treatment. Mental toughness is one thing, trying to break down someone because you want your kid to take his spot is another.

I think we have beat this horse enough.

Thanks again.

Tell your son to treat this jerk of a coach with the utmost respect (yes sir, no sir, etc....and always look him directly in the eyes when he says yes sir, no sir, etc.) and hustle his butt off for the guy. Make sure he sends a message to the coach that he isn't gonna kill his spirit. It also puts your son in control knowing that every time he shows that guy respect it gets under his skin even more.

When the coach sees that he isn't having an effect on your son, he will either (a) quit the abuse...or (b) turn it up a notch and get himself fired...

quote:

Originally posted by Golfman25:
...some kids react differently -- and knowing what works for each athlete is what makes good coach.

I agree, However if in fact the Coach Kicked dirt in the Kids face & called him G*#, He would not be relavent in talking about what "GOOD" Coaches do because he is an A&&

If this ever happens again... The mud kicked in face... Fall down grab your eyes and act like you are seriously hurt. Soon someone will be asking questions to everyone about what happened.

Then you decide... Do you want to cover for the assistant and say it was an accident... You might become one of his favorites. Or you can tell the truth and see what happens.

Personally, I would throw the mud right back in his face, but that's probably stupid! Maybe the first suggestion is stupid, too.

But something has to be done IMO. There's a difference between a tough coach and one like this. A tough coach might be somehow trying to get the best out of you. It doesn't sound like that is this guys motive, based on what you have said.

The player never wins by responding in kind, even with horribly provoked by jerks like this guy.

Karma will catch up with this jerk. Meanwhile, I really don't know what I would do. Clearly the best revenge would be to succeed on the field, but I can understand a parent's frustration in this context.

Here's a related question for the panel. If your son was a teammate of this young man, what would you want him to do?

me I would neverknow it happened---my son would handle it himself---he never brought things home to me and I never attended practice sessions

quote:

Originally posted by 6killer:

It is hard not to step in when you see your child struggling.

Thanks to all.

Six

Is your son struggling on the field or just with this coach?
I am surprised at all the people that have actually condemned the coach.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I just can't see all of these things happening and the HC as well as others not noticing. How do you kick mud in someone's face, was he on the ground?

And why do you have to pry this out of your son?

When my son was in HS one of the players was getting a really hard time from the HC, he, the player, ended up cursing out the coach and was kicked off the team. The team captains got together and went to the coach, told them they both were acting stupid (no fear of retaliation) and the player was allowed back on the team. It was a great season. Teammates often stick together and help one another out, which is why it makes no sense that others see what is going on and not saying a word, unless by chance, it really is not as bad as it appears to you (just sayin).

I think my son would have mentioned it if this happened, but probably asking more how he could handle the situation himself.

I don't like coaches being made out to be bad people just as I don't like parents being made out to be either. But something here just doesn't add up, for me anyway.

We have no idea who the kid is, let alone the coach. I would agree if this coach were identified and called out here, it would be much different.

So we don't know who anyone is, might as well be a hypothetical case. So the question was asked, how to deal with it (if it happened)? The coach and player are unknown. No reason for the poster to make it up (that I can think of)

I don’t see it as coaches being made out to be bad people. However if this is all true… There’s definitely one coach who is a bad person! And there seems to be differing opinions on how to handle the situation. Sounds like a tough one to me. I like the way your son’s team handled their situation.

One thing for sure that I agree with… The player needs to handle the problem by himself if at all possible.

quote:

The player needs to handle the problem by himself if at all possible.

as with all things they are going to have to deal with problems. however it is tough to see your kid sometimes get the short end of the stick. You want to say something because he is your kid. do you dont you? tough call. But there comes a time when you are in the background. Just the way it is.

My son played for a tough coach for 5 years. Some years he loved him, others he absolutely hated him and now as his career with this hard nosed baseball guy ends as it turns out, this man will have been one of the most important influences on my son.

Not only did his pushing him, physically and mentally make him a MUCH better player and person, it taught him how to preserver though hard times. There were YEARS it seemed my son was picked on and taken for granted but the end result is a kid who is tough in every sense, a better player then he ever would have been and prepared to go off to college and play at a very good D1 school. I thank goodness for this man whose methods I rarely understood or approved of but who added to the person my son has become more than I would ever imagine. Every dollar I spent has been worth twice that.

Why did we ride it out through the tough 9-11th grade years, (this is club ball), well, let's just say the tough love here on this site didn't hurt. My son would NOT have the baseball opportunities he now does if he had packed his mitt and bat and stomped away in search of someone who showered him with praise all day. We easily could have found that but my son never would have learned to work harder then those around him to overcome objections...seems like a skill he will use his entire life, doesn't it?

How many people want to give their coach a bonus not for baseball but for contributing to the man the kid is becoming?

quote:

Posted February 23, 2012 11:12 AM Hide Post
My son played for a tough coach for 5 years. Some years he loved him, others he absolutely hated him and now as his career with this hard nosed baseball guy ends as it turns out, this man will have been one of the most important influences on my son.

Not only did his pushing him, physically and mentally make him a MUCH better player and person, it taught him how to preserver though hard times. There were YEARS it seemed my son was picked on and taken for granted but the end result is a kid who is tough in every sense, a better player then he ever would have been and prepared to go off to college and play at a very good D1 school. I thank goodness for this man whose methods I rarely understood or approved of but who added to the person my son has become more than I would ever imagine. Every dollar I spent has been worth twice that.

Why did we ride it out through the tough 9-11th grade years, (this is club ball), well, let's just say the tough love here on this site didn't hurt. My son would NOT have the baseball opportunities he now does if he had packed his mitt and bat and stomped away in search of someone who showered him with praise all day. We easily could have found that but my son never would have learned to work harder then those around him to overcome objections...seems like a skill he will use his entire life, doesn't it?

How many people want to give their coach a bonus not for baseball but for contributing to the man the kid is becoming?

quote:

Originally posted by twotex:
The player never wins by responding in kind, even with horribly provoked by jerks like this guy.

Karma will catch up with this jerk. Meanwhile, I really don't know what I would do. Clearly the best revenge would be to succeed on the field, but I can understand a parent's frustration in this context.

Here's a related question for the panel. If your son was a teammate of this young man, what would you want him to do?

Mine was in a game situation. Pitcher gets rocked in 1st inning and gets pulled. Players step out of the dougout for the "hang with'em" or "get'em next time" and the AC yells that nobody should talk to him becasue he s&cked. Kid sits on the bench by himself. Eventually my kid goes over and sits with him for a minute. After the game he got tuned up and never played again for the rest of the season whcih was about 7 games.

Full disclosure: he'd had his ups and downs all year with the coaches over his role but was in the lineup a good portion of the season becasue he deserved to be.

All in all I am proud of what he did but the lesson taught was "Don't get involved". Truth is that in almost all cases doing nothing and staying out of things is the right thing to do for yourself.

It is very unlikely that someone that is in a peeing match with someone higher in the food chain is going to win so picking sides against the eventual winner means you lose. Gotta know when to hold'em and when to fold'em.

Luv baseball, I couldn't disagree more. Your son showed compassion, which tells us what kind of person he is when confronted with injustice. I am sorry you don't see that as a more important aspect of life then having to sit on the bench for 6 or 7 games. Sounds like an excellent kid not afraid to do the right thing.

Cali - yep Like I said I was proud of him but I am afraid the lesson learned is what I discribed which has more truth in it than I really want it to. He hasn't been the same since this single game. Much more self centered and not as pleasant to be around. It has the look of a life altering event where the lesson is not a good one.