ABUSIVE COACHES

Some coaches consider that as motivational speaking.

I am most reluctant to paint coaches with too broad a brush and there are most certainly some great ones out there, but there are far too many abusive ones and many do hide their behavior behind their belief that somehow their abuse is motivational. I suppose to some it is. But the great coach knows who responds to a kick in the butt and who responds to a pat on the back.

At the bottomline, a far too typical reason I've heard from kids as to why they stopped playing is treatment of an abusive coach.

In any event, as far as how you can tell? Forget the recruiting process. Go unannounced (and undetected) to a game (or practice if possible and better yet) and watch the coach in action.

Abusive coaches are likely to have had abusive coaches themselves. It is a cycle not unlike so many we hear about these days, both inside and outside the family. People often try to explain this away by saying "well, that's the way things are...kids in baseball have to learn to deal with it". Maybe so, but when your kid is being treated cruelly at an age when they're just starting to discover the power of self-confidence, watching someone dismantle it is unacceptable.

Just read this morning about a successful football coach in our area who was fired by school board. Appears vile language was the reason. Sounds like coach has many supporters among players and parents - plans to sue.

I have seen it all too many tmes. I worked with the most verbally abusive coach I have ever met. I sometimes think I stayed to protect my son and the other players around him.
I am a tyrrant at many youth fields though. When I hear an abusive coach go off on kids, I look at the overall response, by players, parents and I often follow up on the coach.
Some say I might be meddling, but when it comes to belittling young kds, you'd better get out of my 250 lb. way. And I have taken a few coaches off to the side, introduced myself, and then gave them a piece of my mind. Most just drop their jaw and say little, only one challenged me and I shut him up fast. I am known as one of the most easy going guys around, until you deliberately hurt a child in my presence.
Teach them, discipline them, push them, let them know whats expected of them and they will respond with young greatness.

Tear them down, wear your crown, and then beware of when I'm in town.

Coachric,

What if the coach weighs 300 lbs?

Great post, wish there were many more like you. I can't stand it when power hungry adults feel the need to show off while they exercise on kids.

Please, stay in shape. If you're for hire, you could be very much in demand! Wait a minute, kind of sounds like a hit man!

PG, when they're 300 lbs. or more, I look up when I'm yelling. Actually had a guy about 6'5" about 275 lbs. chewing on 12 yr olds. When I heard the words pathetic, I began to boil. Is this a family site? Oh well, I let him know that he was more worthless than any kid I've ever known, and he looked about 4' 5" when I was done with him.

"how do you know if a coach is like this?"

Very difficult to find out. The suggestion to go to games and observe coaches is a good one but the really abusive ones are smart enough to keep it out of public view. Consider contacting ex-players or ex-player families - you may get more honest feedback however some will be reluctant to say anything for fear of retribution. If faced with such a situation there are few options: suck it up and take it, transfer, challenge the coach. There is no right answer for all situations.

Thank you all. believe me I'm all for confronting a player when dogging it etc.When a player makes an error he knows it, and he feels bad. If he did not approach it correctly or didn't "bodyup" Then show the player what you want, don't abuse him.I am not talking about little league I'm talking jc ball here. Like I said you can see the love slip away.Tough hardnose players become ordinary.

Pappy .......... not sure what your relationship is to the situation you described but if you know or are are related to a player in this situation the best you can do is be supportive & encouraging ......... it does make a difference and they do need the positive reinforcement.

Absolutly, stay low key play your game,stand tall,and let him yell, actually he has many good qualities as a coach, just a people problem. And as I see it motovational skills.You can't play scared to not get yelled at

What is abusive? In the touchy feely make everybody feel good about themselves and dont hurt their self esteem world. I was abusive. I actually would occassionally not often yell at a kid for making a bone head play. funny thing he did not do it again. One time i benched a player because he was not doing what he was supposed to do to be told by one of his parents that I ruined him. I should have explained why Ig it. Sit him down and tell him the reason. How about you have not hit the ball hard in 5 games and defensively you are playing like&*^%$#. Would that be abusive?
my son when he was a freshman walking on to play in college(played 4 years) called me up. I asked how was it going. he said the coachch laid into him pretty good at practice. seems he got picked off in an intra squad game. I thought what does he want me to say. I will call the coach and tell him not to yell? I said dont get picked off and the coach wont yell.

Will

We are in an age where you cannot 'yell" at the kids for fear you scar them for life

Folks let me tell you I played for coaches who today would make you cringe but I am all the better because of them

We played with broken fingers taped together because that was just the way its

We practiced long hours because that was just the way it was


We came home at the age of 12 with tobacco juice stained uniforms because the coach spit and drooled while he spoke ( God rest his great soul)

Will I agree with you--- who defines what abusive means?--to some what you say it is and to others it isnt--

You know what I say to coaches--BE YOURSELF--D A M N THE TORPEDOES--- never saw a kid go over the edge just becaus he got yelled at with a few cuss words thrown in--it is usually the parents who go over the edge

MY BOY--MY BOY--lets get real folks--it aint the end of the world if your kid gets yelled at or cussed at--sit in a dugout and listen to them talk !!!! you would probably say "that cant be my son!"

Yes I have seen coaches who go nuts -- but nuts aint always involving yelling and cussing and abusive--I have seen head slaps and physical and verbal abuse --- I have seen coaches go ballistic but still not be abusive in my book

I agree with Pappy. Just play hard and do the best you can. Let the coach yell. It won't be the last time you get yelled at or had your feelings hurt. It is actually worse when a qiet coach screams at you.
Football coaches can be worse. They yell and get physical. Use you for a tackle/blocking dummy.

Kids just are not as tough as they were before.

My Daughter got yelled at this week by her middle school coach and she started crying. My Wife was furious. She came by baseball practice and wanted me to go meet the bus at the Middle School. LOL! I said, "Hon, if you want to see yelling, stick around for five minutes."

Abusive? I don't believe in calling a kid names and I don't believe in saying cuss words to them. I have messed up once and done that. I still feel terrible about it. Yelling? You bet. I haven't bought into the "son, I'm worried about your self esteem and so, I'd like to yell at you but then again, I'm just going to ask you to do better. Have a good day." I don't know that yelling is the answer. I do know that I'm emotional and into the game and so, I am who I am. What might make some of you think that I'm crazy is that we practice this. We had rain the other day and so, we practiced all of the things I'm going to yell at them during a game. Keep in mind, the community will set the standard for what the coach is allowed to do.

I confess I am an old timer. To some those like us are out of touch and in some ways Iam glad I amout of touch with what goes on some times.I remember one time early in my coaching journey we lost a couple in a row. I say we lost because the other teams did not beatus as they say we beat ourselves. I was beside my self . I really laid into them and in the process I broke a wood fungo bat in half as I slammedit into the backstop. We won our next 10. could I do that today. Dont know one of the kids might go home and tell their parents andI would be called on the carpet. Who knows

HeyBatter:

Excellent advice. I have observed both coaches in practices and in games and you can learn a lot by simply observing; usually something different in each encounter. I also like to talk [or have my son talk] to current players at schools we are interested in about a lot of topics and the "demeanor" of all the coaches is a topic we always bring up. Recluctance by a player to talk about that subject is almost the same as a description of the "abusive behaivor".

Coachric:

Great Post. As a former coach and umpire for many years, I have seen all kinds of people who, for a variety of reasons, should not be coaching. Sometimes talking to them works but at other times they seem to revert back to their abusive personalities. And sometimes, just as there is uncompromising support for certain continued but IMHO damaging behaivor by coaches on this website, the powers that be will not, for whatever reason, get rid of these miscreants.

For those who want their young men to move up to the next level, you should do all you can to find out what the coaches are like on the team you want your son to move up to and, if they are abusive, I, for one, would find another alternative, whether the team coached by an abuser is in the best baseball interest for my son or not. Scars for life are not what I believe you sons need to take away from this GAME.

TW344

Can understand verbal abuse in football, but not in baseball. Most football parents swear like truckers themselves!

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Aurora...Interesting about the coach at Hinsdale. Apparently the School Board didn't know what to do because he was winning and they hadn't been winning in football. Board solution: Fire the coach!

How about the voters in Homer Glen/Lockport voting down the high school building referendum?

Sounds like a bunch of disgruntled old geezers smoking cigarettes and drinking beer and then complaining about paying an extra $50 in taxes for the new high school.

Gees....

This one is easy.

Non-abusive coaches understand the importance of a balanced approach. Any coach who can only accentuate the negative for a player is not qualified to coach high school youth. Many, many "old timers" wouldn't cut it today and for very good reason. Granted, it requires much more in the way of integrity and social skills, but coaches with these qualifications ARE out there...and they know how to win.

In fact, these type of guys are becoming more commonplace. Partly, this is due to the threat of lawsuit that increasingly hangs over the heads of abusers of all types...and partly it is due to the fact that win/loss records are not at all adversely affected by people who coach with integrity.

Just to lend another view, I’m also an old timer. Have played for and seen what I would consider abusive coaches and just about every other type.

I think it is very easy to figure out the motives behind the actions. What bothers me is when the motive is “look at me coach”! Silent coaches don’t draw as much attention as loud ones! This, by itself, does not make someone a good or bad coach. This, by itself, does not make someone abusive or not!

I’ve seen some absolutely great coaches who do their yelling and/or cussing at practice, but remain calm, cool and collected during the games. Yes, I’ve seen great coaches that are much more vocal than others, too.

One thing for sure, the yelling, cussing and embarrassment of players, is not absolutely necessary to get the most out of your players. The #1 most important goal of any coach should be to get the most out of his players.

The best coaches (even the yellers) understand that all players do not respond the same way to criticism, downgrading, screaming, etc. Good coaches understand this and react accordingly IMO.

Of course, we have to take into account the various age groups. When I see someone coaching a team of 10-12 year olds, and the coach is emulating Bobby Knight, it makes me ill.

I know there are those who believe the tough survive… But I’ve seen the weak become tough over years of guidance and development. At the younger ages, some kids need encouragement and support. These are usually the kids who get yelled at the most by coaches who think screaming is the way to accomplish the coaches goals. Or sadly, these kids are pawns so the coach can perform his tough coaching talent.

To me… It is never productive to embarrass a player in front of anyone other than the team. Often it becomes very non productive.

Before talking about toughness, we need not define abuse; we need to define “toughness”! There are many ways to be tough without showing it to the whole world. IMO – Fighting for the team and the players is much more productive than fighting with your own players. That’s just my personal opinion and not the only way.

For example… There’s Joe Torre’s way! Or Terry Francona’s way! Or Sadaharo Oh’s way!

Regarding kids not being as tough as they used to… Might be true as a whole because things do change. But when we were young we didn’t have it as tough (as a whole) as those pioneers who came before us! I still see a lot of VERY tough kids who play baseball these days. And I hope we understand how tough it is for those young people serving in Iraq.
I just think there is a time and more importantly a place to display the tough stuff. Being older doesn’t necessarily make us any tougher it just makes us older. I remember lots of weak minded individuals while I was growing up. In fact, to a certain extent, I was one of them. Acted tough, physically tough, mentally a basket case! People are the same, circumstances are different!

Sorry, for the long winded opinion!

Just food for Thought:
I agree with everybody here, Both sides.

What if your son's are lucky enough with hard work to make it to the Pro's.
And let's say Lou Pinella is there Manager.
And for some reason he doesn't think that there playing hard enough.
I bet there going to get an ear full.
A Player from HS on Might just get any type of Coach,
From the Quiet thinker. To the Moderately Abusive.
The Player must get a mental toughness to understand that not all coaches are the Same, But they ALL want the same thing.
A winning Team.

Just to clearify, the opinions I gave in the previous post are just that, my opinions. I respect Will, TR, and other opinions as well. There are many different ways to be an excellent coach. IMO

PG...you're a "perfect" 1 for 1 with that post!

Some kids need a kick in the arse and others may need a pat on the back. The very good coaches know how to get the most of their players.

I like a coach that lets you know what he is thinking. It is better he doesn't get abusive but you are going to run into all types. As a player you have to get the message and not get uptight abount the method by which it is delivered. It won't help your game if you let it bother you.

Players are all different and respond to various coaching styles. Some like the drill sargeant others respond well to the "friend." Personally I believe that a coach should relay passion and intensity. That does not always need to be verbal but sometimes it does. Our players know what is expected of them, if they do not follow through with those expectations, I will let them know about it. I do not, however, believe in berating a player. Confidence is so important in this game that one will not be effective if they are full of self-doubt. I have a simple rule with the players; "Do not embarrass me on the field and I will not embarrass you." If I tell a player where to play and the kid waves me off (this happened a couple of years ago) I will call time and bench them immediately. Never had to say one word to the kid, he got the idea.

Some players like their coaches some dont. I have seen kids quit because they did not like their coach. A REAL good reason? I have been a teacher for 35 years. I have worked for a lot of people. some I liked some not so much but it is my job. Because I dont like a person I quit?
In talking to the kid that quit the first thing I said was that was not the way to approach the problem. But seemed to fall on deaf ears.

I am probably older than most of you I played in the sixties. I know it is a different world now.I never played for a coach like this., and if I did he would certainly have had his nose broken by someone.
As far as cracking on a player that is fine"boy you haven't hit a ball hard in 5 games and your defense is garbage" is fine, sit him, it's a dose of reality.But
you snivelling worthless pu--ified piece of s--it.When are you going to start playing ball?= broken nose,Especially day after day game after game win or loose.He sees everyone hates him ,he sees good players with no spark,which he has killed.He must adjust as a player must
to find best approach for this team,remember jc ball is a new team every year very tough.As I said good players questioning if they want to play ever again.
However the input is appreciated especially on how to detect this.After all we must try not to let a guy like this break your spirit.And hopfully in the future you will benefit from it. Maybe this is his twisted logic after all?

I guess we view Old School in different ways. I was always taught to work the players to the bone, accept no excuses, and then expect them to perform based on the hard work and routine of practice.
Since it has been many, many years since I've seen a youth league coach drill players to the proper fundamentals of receiving a ground ball or catching a pop-up, I then get really disgusted when a kid gets hung out there by his coach for making a miscue.
In my chastizing of abusive coaches, I have brought up things like " I saw you guys practicing, and you have taken no time to teach these kids anything constructive about the game. Now, how can you tear him down when you haven't even begun to build him up"?
Believe me, I despise the PC **** about self esteem. The kid will be made to feel good about himself when he has worked hard and accomplished things playing the game.
PG, Brute, you guys are right there. Will, I understand where you're coming from, but yelling for the sake of yelling, and I'm not saying you suggested that, will accomplish nothing. Emotion can be very good, but it will not be good if it takes the player or team down. It has to be motivational in some way, and a good coach like CoachB25, I'm sure has known for a long time how to motivate his players. There are too many coaches with enormous ego's that will yell to show the folks in the stands that he's a good and tough coach. If its constructive, pertains to the game situation, or the mental state of the player involved, then it can work. But as others have said, you have to learn who accepts the hollering and who needs the pat on the back.

I think all players need both. Nobody goes good all the time.They need to be confronted when playing poorly, but when a guy is going thru say a bad slump , you need to help him back off and work with him. All players know the horible feeling of the slump and walking back to the dugout feeling 1/2 inch tall needing some coaching correction whatever. Do you help him by saying "Yea real nice cut your garbage"
That will surely get him out of his slump.
Any way it's how the coach delivers good and bad .Many players are religous and will not tolerate foul language.

Confrontation should not be confused as "Abusive"

You can be tough without being abusive, verbally or physically

WELL SAID.My point exactly you can and should be a hard nose fair coach, without extreme profanity , verbal abuse, and humiliating players in front of others.A little tact goes a long way.

I had a great coach when I was a kid he was never abusive to any of us. The kind of coach that walked quietly, but carried a big stick. One of his favor saying was “there are a lot of sports you can play, and if you don’t start playing this one harder your going to get a chance to play them”. Amen.

quote:

Will, I understand where you're coming from, but yelling for the sake of yelling, and I'm not saying you suggested that, will accomplish nothing. Emotion can be very good, but it will not be good if it takes the player or team down.

I did it for over 25 years and in that time I picked my spots. I can honestly say it happened maybe 5 or 6 times. If you yell and scream all the time there is no effect but if you do it rarely my experience is they get the message and they did in my case.

I think PG's got it right.
You have to know your players and how each is motivated. Some players dont respond to verbal abuse. For some it's neccessary to get into their face in order to just to get under their thick skin.
Different circumstances dictate different solutions
I've seen many styles of coaching, and alot of different approaches. In my senior year my HS football coach DECKED a player, and no he was not being abused or physically challenged by that player. I've seen baseball teams from LL to Hs shut down their hitting because of abussive comments by coaches regarding pitch selection. Go ahead and try to overthink the situation while hitting. None of these abussive tactics served the purpose of teaching the game or enhancing the performance of the team.
Rollerman

Will:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
If you yell and scream all the time there is no effect but if you do it rarely my experience is they get the message and they did in my case.

This is true outside of coaching and baseball as well...I have often wondered how people, who swear constantly, express themselves when they're really ticked...perhaps they're speechless!

I think that a coaches indignation and whatever means he expresses it needs to be focused on a constructive outcome.
I recently read "My Loosing Season" by Pat Conroy. Although the game was basketball, the effects of derisive coaching is well examined in the narative.
This coach was apparently afraid of ego developement, attacked mercilessly any perofmance that stood out from the rest. The result was not a team bonding experience like the '80 USA Hockey Team but a slow and painful descent into mediocrity and below.
The alchemy of "team chemistry" is not cookbook material. You cant take a group of athletes and predict how they will respond to any given stlye of coaching. Observation and evaluation of the composite work ethic and the personality of a team is a key to the success of the coaches approach.
Rollerman

In our HS I have seen the results of two different styles of coaching, first the JV coach, supportive, encouraging, firm, never swears or yells, knowledgeable and very respected, team goes 24-2. The same team with the same kids (more or less) moves to varsity, Varsity coach swears, yells, humiliates, berates and benches, hated by all, team goes 14-16. Can't say that the results are all attributed to the coaching style but the kids thought so and this goes on year after year.