Academics v. Athletics

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
I'm curious to see posters opinions. A freshman gets C's and D's. A guidance counselor is now working with him to find him the easiest courses possible for the next three years and still qualify to graduate. The intent is raising his GPA to qualify to play college baseball. We're not talking about a D1 top prospect. We're talking about a kid who will probably be a D3 prospect. At best maybe a lowest level D1.

How does one determine where a freshman will fall talent wise come his senior year?
If he is struggling in school, the object is to make him eligible to graduate.

I am not sure I get the reason for your post.

Baseball may may be what he needs to open the door to college.

Grades sometimes are an indication of effort!

Some schools understand that kids need to adapt to the freshman year.

Grades are very important; certain schools will look at sophomore and junior years for grades. Baseball may help but bad grades will close doors to those schools that are considered good academic schools.

Even schools which are considered less academic, they still have the general guidelines and specific class requirements that over all are not that difficult to obtain if you put the effort.

The player needs to check into the NCAA requirements for classes to be taken, the counselor needs to understand that he is interested in playing NCAA sports.

There is always the JC route, but if you look to go directly into a 4 year school and get recruited, you will need to explain the grades and unless you just have great baseball skills, I have seen some good players get passed over for other players who have decent grades that the coaches won't have to worry about keeping qualified and won't hurt the APR if they are on their team.

Ok I understand maybe what is being said by RJM.

I am sure the guidance counselor (if he/she is doing their job) will map out a plan for the player to do better in school, perhaps allowing more difficult classes as a junior or senior so he can become eligible to play NCAA division baseball.

rjm.......


what were his grades prior to h.s ? was he an A student before this?

what brought on the c,d's? not turning in homework? other problems? is it a lack of maturity? disorganization? peer pressure ?

is he bored and not challenged in the classes? what kind of standardized test scores does he have? is he a high ability student but just not challenged enough?

My wife and I had two different approaches to this. I thought he should focus on the higher GPA ---- while she thought he should focus on the honors classes. I won out but I feel as if he suffered because of it. If I had to do it all over again I would encourage him to take more challenging courses which, if nothing else, would teach him better study habits and better prepare him for college. If a kid needs to take cushy courses in high school in order to pass enough to be accepted to a college then maybe he may not be able to handle the college courses AND play baseball. I say "scare" him into studying (and learning) to where he will be better prepared for college academically.
Fungo

Fungo,
Because your posts are so concise, pointed, and accurate, I can only reinforce you views. Both of us know that when your baseball career is over, the rest of your life begins.
To begin catering a "baseball" education early in high school creates far too great a risk of a student who will be unprepared for college, especially unprepared to succeed in college, and hanging by a called 3rd strike for what happens when baseball is over.
Since nearly every player has no control over when baseball comes to an end, students need to be able to control what happens when others say "you cannot play" anymore.

My son will start his soph yr in a week in the IB program.

Geometry, Algebra 2, IB Lang Arts, AP world History, Chemistry, Spanish 3, Weight trianing.

I have been begging mom and Jr all summer to drop IB program and just go Honors route. They both disagree.

I hope he passes Weight Training??

He will turn his grades & progress reports into the baseball coach every week.

fsmjunior what is the IB program? From the schedule you posted it seems to be pretty challenging for a SO.

Also, never heard of sophomores taking an AP class. Usually it's the JR year before they take them. Tell him to pass it in order to save you about $2000 when he goes to college.

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
My wife and I had two different approaches to this. I thought he should focus on the higher GPA ---- while she thought he should focus on the honors classes. I won out but I feel as if he suffered because of it. If I had to do it all over again I would encourage him to take more challenging courses which, if nothing else, would teach him better study habits and better prepare him for college. If a kid needs to take cushy courses in high school in order to pass enough to be accepted to a college then maybe he may not be able to handle the college courses AND play baseball. I say "scare" him into studying (and learning) to where he will be better prepared for college academically.
Fungo

Very interesting thoughts because I had those same concerns and felt I errored with the opposite scenario you chose. I always knew my son was capable of advanced classes, so I made him take them. Well, if a kid isn't going to focus well enough to pull out top grades in a regular class, he's not going to do it in an advanced one neither. Academics just wasn't his priority. So, instead of graduating with perhaps a bit higher GPA which would have helped him enormously, he had a lower GPA, but advanced classes. I felt and still do that a higher GPA would have opened up some more doors for him.

The thing with grades is a player often never knows the "if" involved. If we could just make all kids open up the best of all worlds by excelling on the field and in the classroom - what happy parents we'd be!

Hmmmm... Lafmom are you saying kids and parents are different?

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Some of the great things about JC...

- Keeps all options open both academically and athetically...

- A New academic start...

- Gives players a chance to hone their academic skills, and perhaps, if need be, catch up and grow...before being thrown to the 4 year academic wolves.

- The classes available offer wider options than HS, giving a player who may never have caught fire academcially to find and explore an academic interest/passion.

- The level of academic competition may in some cases be lower giving players who have struggled academically a chance to feel new hope...and an ability to compete.

- Less cost while finding ones "academic self".


44
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O44 - Great advice! I would suggest that parents remember that different JUCOs have different support systems and expectations though just as other levels. My son son chose JUCO for one year after HS for the reasons you mention - it was all paid for, a program that demanded much academically, and he had also begun to understand the ramifications of academics after some college coaches explained that! He was a qualifier out of HS, but barely! JUCO year, he was dean's list and contributed to a team GPA that won the academic JUCO of the year from NJCAA. It was pretty exciting stuff for him and ma!

Much has been written on this website about academics v. athletics, and I believe it is always a most appropriate topic, as the ultimate goal is finding the right/best fit for our kids.

See this thread:

http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4686003481/m/5021082392/p/1

IMHO, if I had to sum it up in one word, I would probably choose "balance". But balance to the highest possible level. Academics at the HS level is different at all HSs in all georgraphies, and even within the same geography. Some offer AP/IB beginning in Soph year, some don't have any or very few. Colleges know the academic status/offerings of all HSs in this country. Each college has AOs who are assigned most usually by geography, and it is that AO's job to KNOW their HSs, and they really, really do -what the HSs offer for courses, whether the HS suffers grade inflation (this shows up via standardized testing), etc.

So, have your student take the most rigour he/she can/will commit to handling that is offered at your HS. If that is all APs, then go for it (IB is another format similar to APs, some schools have either, some have both). If not, then find the best balance where there will be a mix of high grades and strong academics - to keep grades good, but at the same time show challenge. It is a catch 22 because colleges want to see challenge (they will tell you they prefer Bs in AP or Honors classes to As in regular classes), but you need to get the grades to get in. If the student cannot acomplish this, then take those classes that they can handle comfortably (with just a little on the challenge side). Obviously, baseball (or any sport or EC activity) must blend into this balance.

A student who gets Cs and Ds in freshman year can show several things, all of which can be explained to or taken into account by an admissions officer. However, a student who continues to get Cs and Ds throughout HS I don't think would be a candidate to play ball at a 4 year school to start with, no matter whether he is the next coming of Babe Ruth or Willie Mays, because a 4 year cannot risk losing schollys because it cannot make its rating. As 44 says, JUCO would be a great route.

The reason I asked this question is the strategy seemed twisted to me. Both the dad in question and I played D1 in our time. My view of the world is my son will take whatever academic load he can handle and be expected to get A's (or at least the best he can). His goal should be to get into the best possible college. Anything that happens with sports is gravy. I do expect my son to have the ability to play college baseball at some level. I do not see baseball as an avenue to prosperity. I see education as the avenue to prosperity. My daughter has a partial athletic college ride. I see it as gravy. She has a bigger partial academic ride. There's a lot more academic than athletic money(last I read seventeen times more).

I asked the question since my priorities are so one sided maybe there's something I'm not seeing. I can't imagine ever telling my son I'm going to find him the easy way out. I don't believe this builds the kind of character needed for life skills. The kid in question isn't brilliant. He isn't stupid either. He's more academically lazy than incompetent. He'd rather play baseball on XBox than do homework. My son told me when he logs on the kid is always online on XBox.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
fsmjunior what is the IB program? From the schedule you posted it seems to be pretty challenging for a SO.

Also, never heard of sophomores taking an AP class. Usually it's the JR year before they take them. Tell him to pass it in order to save you about $2000 when he goes to college.

IB stands for International Baccalaureate. This is a very accelerated program that can net students anywhere from 24 to 32 Credits when they enter college. Thus the AP courses in Soph yr. Very intense offering but can lead to great opportunities for College.
Shoot if he can continue to hit as a catcher he might have a few options in a couple of years either Academically or Baseball. His HS is a 6A school.
Dad sure is worried about that schedule this year though!

quote:

Originally posted by lafmom: My son son chose JUCO for one year after HS for the reasons you mention - it was all paid for, a program that demanded much academically, and he had also begun to understand the ramifications of academics after some college coaches explained that! He was a qualifier out of HS, but barely! JUCO year, he was dean's list and contributed to a team GPA that won the academic JUCO of the year from NJCAA. It was pretty exciting stuff for him and ma!

This is the kind of wonderful success story that is possible within a JC framework...leaves all athletic doors open but can open many academic ones to boot. Not easy, but potentially rewarding and full of opportunties to "change the course" a little or a great deal.

Congrats lafmom, great story!

44
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quote:

Originally posted by fsmjunior:

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
fsmjunior what is the IB program? From the schedule you posted it seems to be pretty challenging for a SO.

Also, never heard of sophomores taking an AP class. Usually it's the JR year before they take them. Tell him to pass it in order to save you about $2000 when he goes to college.

IB stands for International Baccalaureate. This is a very accelerated program that can net students anywhere from 24 to 32 Credits when they enter college. Thus the AP courses in Soph yr. Very intense offering but can lead to great opportunities for College.
Shoot if he can continue to hit as a catcher he might have a few options in a couple of years either Academically or Baseball. His HS is a 6A school.
Dad sure is worried about that schedule this year though!

Thanks for the explanation and that sounds like an outstanding opportunity for students. Obviously it's not for everyone but there are that group of kids who will be going to college. Great that they get a head start. Good luck to your son in this program.

I do have to say that I find it hard to believe that colleges are going to "allow" this. Seems they will me losing money from these kids who have the head start.

Caoch,
This becomes a double edged sword. A coach might be more than hppy to RECRUIT a player who has already earned credits (less from his pocket), yet some schools are not accepting anymore because it's less money out of theirs.

Sounds like the guidance counselor has given up on the student. And that the student has given up on school.

Sad either way.