Accused of Felonies; allow to play in Florida School???

If only accused he is not yet a felon. I could not bring up the cite so I am not up to speed on the facts. It is that old innocent until proven guilty.

If he transferred on his own as opposed to being recruited the new coach may have a legal problem not giving him a fair shot. You would have a legitimate complaint is he was recruited to the new school.

Is the young man convicted?

Incidently fan the world has been this way for many years. When I was in grammar school we had two young men who were 4 years older than I was because they had been in reform school. This was in 8th grade

BBallerFan09 - please do not spam the boards with redundant posts. Also, the link does not work. Not really sure about these type of posts to begin with to be honest.

I agree with ClevelandDad.

A new member who immediately posts three times about something like this sure raises suspicion about motive. And we don't need to post such serious negative information about a minor in our forums, at least in this case where it sounds like this player is accused, not convicted.

Julie

The motive is that I have a son that is slated to go to that school in 2009-2010. He is on top ranked AAU travel teams in the Tampa Bay area and I just want to see if the school has allowed this to happen because it was legally obligated to. Or out of greed.

Is the accused player competing for the same position?

If the individual is charged but not convicted, than the college would be punnishing a presumed innocent young adult similar to what happened to the Duke Lacrosse Team. I think that most folks looking back would describe that incident as INJUSTICE. In other words, not the appropriate course of action. I believe someone above mentioned a novel idea, "innocent until proven guilty".

If you feel that the coach and recruiting staff has a propensity to look only at tools and talent and disregard character when selecting players that they would like to recruit, and you are concerned that your son may be surrounded by a group of thugs should he sign on with this particular program, then move on to another college, no one will force you to sign a LOI. Find a program that best suits the needs and concerns of your family.

quote:

Originally posted by BBallerFan09:
The motive is that I have a son that is slated to go to that school in 2009-2010. He is on top ranked AAU travel teams in the Tampa Bay area and I just want to see if the school has allowed this to happen because it was legally obligated to. Or out of greed.

If your son was charged with a crime would you want him to have his day in court before someone else goes off half cocked on a baseball board without knowing the facts? There are three former Duke lacrosse players living with the tag "formerly accused rapist" even though the charges were dropped, the DA disbarred and Duke had to settle out of court. Would you want that for your son?

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There are three former Duke lacrosse players living with the tag "formerly accused rapist" even though the charges were dropped, the DA disbarred and Duke had to settle out of court. Would you want that for your son?

Thats a great point. I think if the original poster is concerned about ethics of a school he should talk to the school. I would not want my sons name planted on a website, thats slander,and really is illegal until this kid is proven guilty.

It is high school. This is not about playing time. I have just never heard of this sort of thing being allowed. The boy was already arrested and charged as a minor. Now 18yrs old and was arrested again and has 7 felony charges. He is posted on the Sherriff web-site so slander is out of the question. He will go to trial next month on those. Repeat offender but this time will be tried as adult. But I agree on the innocent until proven guilty but it is a repeat offender thing. The boy is also considered a top prospect baseball player that can throw 90+ mph and the school was already a state contender without him. Maybe the charges will not stick and this boy can have a good life for his sake and those of his family. But if they do stick, has the school set a bad precedence?

Perhaps you might go to the school with your concerns.

Perhaps playing baseball is a better alternative than doing nothing and getting into trouble.

You are asking a question I don't think we have the answers for.

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The boy is also considered a top prospect baseball player that can throw 90+ mph and the school was already a state contender without him. Maybe the charges will not stick and this boy can have a good life for his sake and those of his family. But if they do stick, has the school set a bad precedence?

Has the school given the same privledges to other players in trouble who don't throw 90+ (assuming 90+ is accurate since it seems like every high school has one)?

Legally, the player gets his day in court. Assuming the player can make games and practices until his day in court, maybe the school's hands are tied unless the player has to miss games and prctices due to the legal problems. If the charges stick, then baseball will be the last thing the player has to worry about assuming there will be time spent in the klink.

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Repeat offender but this time will be tried as adult. But I agree on the innocent until proven guilty but it is a repeat offender thing.

He's not a repeat offender. You don't become a repeat offender until you are convicted a second time.

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Originally posted by BBallerFan09:
It is high school. This is not about playing time. I have just never heard of this sort of thing being allowed. The boy was already arrested and charged as a minor. Now 18yrs old and was arrested again and has 7 felony charges. He is posted on the Sherriff web-site so slander is out of the question. He will go to trial next month on those. Repeat offender but this time will be tried as adult. But I agree on the innocent until proven guilty but it is a repeat offender thing. The boy is also considered a top prospect baseball player that can throw 90+ mph and the school was already a state contender without him. Maybe the charges will not stick and this boy can have a good life for his sake and those of his family. But if they do stick, has the school set a bad precedence?

Do you understand the difference between "accused" and "convicted"? A person who has been charged and not convicted on two seperate occasions is not a repeat offender. He's not even a first time offender until convicted. If he's convicted of a felony it's likely the school will suspend him.

You've already passed judgement on the kid. What are you going to do if he's acquitted? Are you going to allow your son to play with a kid you believe is a felon, at a school you believe is allowing a felon to play?

why does a mod feel the need to delete the link again?
this is an interesting and somewhat surprising discussion
hard for me to see how hsbbweb posters can actually defend the conduct of this High School coach, AD etc.

whether or not the kid is convicted is moot dont you think?

The issue is that the kid has been practicing and playing with one team earlier in the season, turfed off that team, properly it would seem, by the coach for violation of behavior code. (I mean, c'mon, a kid is charged with 7 felonies, at least one of which involved home burglary with an ARMED accomplice. Previous threads on this board have been of the flavor that its ok to kick kids for drinking beer or smoking pot)

Now a second HS coach, in need of a stud, lets this kid play? In a different district? The same Season?
Even if there is NO legal issue this is not right and cannot be condoned

Just Me,

I'm the moderator who deleted the link. When the link did work, it brought me to a blog report that named several HS players, reporting on their upcoming season. I wasn't even sure which of those several players this poster was referring to in this thread, which is part of the problem for me.

No one here is condoning the actions described, if the accusations are true. We just don't need to cover the story here, and I would rather err on the side of cautiousness when it comes to serious accusations against minors.

Julie

Si

quote:

Originally posted by MN-Mom:
Just Me,

I'm the moderator who deleted the link. When the link did work, it brought me to a blog report that named several HS players, reporting on their upcoming season. I wasn't even sure which of those several players this poster was referring to in this thread, which is part of the problem for me.

No one here is condoning the actions described, if the accusations are true. We just don't need to cover the story here, and I would rather err on the side of cautiousness when it comes to serious accusations against minors.

Julie

With all due respect I think you are completely missing the point.

The OP, as well as most of those discussing the issue locally (in the blogged comments associated with the article) are not, in fact, interested in or critical of the player.

The people whose conduct and policies are in question are the coach and AD of the new school allowing the kid to play on their team, injury riddled and making a playoff run, after he was turfed from his original team for violation of code of conduct issues.

THAT is an issue that is very appropriate for discussion on this board. Particularly as it was posted by a parent of a child about to attend that High School and be under the control of that coach.
This is a parent asking for help in assessing and dealing with the program.

Again, I am surprised by the blinders that appear to be in place here.

quote:

Originally posted by Just Me:

quote:

Originally posted by MN-Mom:
Just Me,

I'm the moderator who deleted the link. When the link did work, it brought me to a blog report that named several HS players, reporting on their upcoming season. I wasn't even sure which of those several players this poster was referring to in this thread, which is part of the problem for me.

No one here is condoning the actions described, if the accusations are true. We just don't need to cover the story here, and I would rather err on the side of cautiousness when it comes to serious accusations against minors.

Julie

With all due respect I think you are completely missing the point.

The OP, as well as most of those discussing the issue locally (in the blogged comments associated with the article) are not, in fact, interested in or critical of the player.

The people whose conduct and policies are in question are the coach and AD of the new school allowing the kid to play on their team, injury riddled and making a playoff run, after he was turfed from his original team for violation of code of conduct issues.

THAT is an issue that is very appropriate for discussion on this board. Particularly as it was posted by a parent of a child about to attend that High School and be under the control of that coach.
This is a parent asking for help in assessing and dealing with the program.

Again, I am surprised by the blinders that appear to be in place here.

Just Me - you make good points but I respectfully disagree. The hsbbweb is collectively moderated. Not even Julie - the owner of the site, universally makes decisions about what our policies ought to be. They have basically evolved here over time and ALL find origin from the great man who created the site. Basically, he believed in common decency and courtesy. A place where Mom's, Dad's, and players could contribute equally.

Some feel this should be a no-holds barred free-for-all. Say whatever you like. That would ruin the site imho. One value we try and protect above all others is the sanctity of amateur ballplayers. Basically, none of our kids are perfect and we don't believe in airing dirty laundry.

All that said, there are no universal rules. Sometimes, as you correctly point out, sensitive or unpleasant things need to be discussed. In this case, it seemed the original poster was animated by the salaciousness of the issue. He/they posted in multiple forums and in a provocative manner imho. I think this topic could have been raised in a more sensitive manner imho yet it seems to me that the interest was more in spreading the gossup rather than the underlying issue at hand. Those are my feelings on the issue and nothing has been posted since the thread started to change my mind.

I do respect your opinion and appreciate the thoughts.

ClevelandDad,

It is through the hard and thoughtful work by you and the moderators in the other threads that have preserved this forum and maintained its integrity. I applaud you and all the un-named moderators that offer their services to keep the hsbaseballweb.com site functioning and remaining the excellent resource that it is.

I know that some posters have left or taken a sabbatical due to moderators shutting down threads or curtailing their free for all approach to disseminating their particular views. I enjoy the banter a lot. Hopefully over time some will return.

However, the integrity of this site should trump "freedom of speech", if we hope to keep this excellent resource a safe and welcoming destination for the lovers of our national pastime.

One of the basic "rules" of this board is that HS athletes are not named in a negative way. We celebrate their accomplishments when they occur but we do not criticize their shortcomings.

Yes this may seem like one sided reporting - but this is not a newspaper. This is a site focused on facilitating the success of young men (and occasionally women) who play and love the game of baseball and are hoping to play into high school and perhaps beyond.

Is there perhaps a topic in here which could be discussed? Certainly - but not with naming names in my mind. A generic discussion on the appropriateness of allowing players to continue to play while under accusation for serious crimes - that would have been fine in my mind. It is when the salacious details are added - with the potential of injuring a HS aged individual - that a line is crossed in my mind.

As Cleveland Dad says - moderation here is a collective effort. At times the moderators make decisions that are not popular or universally agreed upon - but then again - they are using their best judgement to preserve the intent of the site.

08

When posting something that will have names of minors a good rule of thumb to follow (not just here but everywhere) is - would I want my kid's name attached to that post? Regardless if it's true, untrue, proven guilty, proven not guilty, rumor or innuendo always ask if you would want to see your child's name posted for the entire world to see.

I agree with CD in that the part of the post would make for great discussion - should schools still allow student / athletes to participate while they have charges pending - but it can be done without names in it. That doesn't mean names of underage people cannot be posted on here because we all are here to celebrate success.

Great job moderators.

There is no reason for a name to be attached to this issue. The discussion can be the same with or without naming the player. I viewed this thread after the moderator deleted the link and I don't feel like I missed a thing.

This is actually a pretty common occurrence and the FHSAA has some very clear rules. You might reference that organization as I'm not current on the latest rules.

My opinion is that you gotta let 'em play until they actually get a conviction. (The conviction may likely get reduced if he doesn't have an extensive background.)

I witnessed this while I was in HS, in Florida. An accused felon had his charges reduced by the judge from felony to guilty of a misdomeanor and the athlete was allowed to continue to participate in sports.

And sometimes these things never even happened---we see it every day at the college and pro level---players get accused of this andf that and then the accusor backs off and says OH NO !!! that is not what happened

There are always two sides to each story---I have to agree with justme---sometimes the trigger is pulled too quickly on threads---I thought the discussion here was in order and opinions offered in a same matter

The poster starting this thread did not name names--he posted a thread link--what is wrong with that ???

How do you start a discussion?

I do not agree with what he/she is leaning to but I thought he/she was worried about the son and the environment the son might be in


How can you have discussion if you do not have at least two sides???

If the article had been cut and pasted with the name of the player and school X'ed out, would it have been acceptible for discussion?

If it is in papers why is it wrong---the poster linked to the article

I just returned from a week in Tampa. While attending HS, college, and pro games this topic was brought up at every venue in the crowd. The discussions ranged from parent responsibilities, school responsibilities, player responsibilities, personal privacy rights, and how the media covers these events. IMHO, this is a societal issue that unless dumped out on the table and "hashed" out you will never see all sides and be able to draw an opinion knowing all the variables. I feel that while it may be pc to avoid personalizing it with names, it does bring these important issues a little closer to reality. If Joe Blows name is referenced by us or any other forum it is not passing judgment, it is only referencing a current event with released information.

If it's in the newspapers and online, it's public information. That makes no sense to delete the link. If the matter is private and the name was released and it wasn't supposed to be, then that's different.

I am certainly not an old timer regardless of what it says, but I always thought the rules were never speak ill of a player, especially by name. It is one of the reasons why I love this place. Only positive things are allowed in regards to specific players. In general it is perfectly fine to discuss a subject that is bad, but never about a player specifically. This is not the entire outside world where there are a different set of rules. It is a close to perfect little place that is the HSBBWEB.

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It is one of the reasons why I love this place. Only positive things are allowed in regards to specific players. In general it is perfectly fine to discuss a subject that is bad, but never about a player specifically.

I take out frustration by downgrading American Idol contestants. In fact, might be doing that again tonight.

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I take out frustration by downgrading American Idol contestants. In fact, might be doing that again tonight.

PG,

I think there's an Obama concert tonight and the world will have to wait a night for the AI contestants to be officially critiqued by the esteemed panel of HSBBW music experts.

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I think there's an Obama concert tonight

I saw a great bumper sticker tonight.

"Let me keep my money, freedom and guns, and you can keep the change."