Anyone have any tips on getting a college freshman hitter to adapt to the better pitching (D2) son is 4 for 11 with 1 hr, 2 doubles and a single with 7 ks. He keeps finding himself in 2 strike counts. I think he needs to be more aggressive early in the count. Hitting with 2 strikes is a tough way to make a living.
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First, 11 AB’s is a tiny sample, you should probably both relax and let him settle in for a while before tinkering with anything.
Second, I would let him figure it out with his coaches. I don’t think a dad should be involved in such things once a kid is in college unless of course you are well qualified to provide direct knowledge based on your own experience as a coach or player at the same level.
I'm not going to tinker mechanically hes fine that way. Just thinking being aggressive earlier in the count would make things better as hitting consistently in 0-2 and 1-2 counts is difficult. The quality of pitchers seen is so much better than high school. I guess its a matter of adjusting to it ....do most freshmen have an adjustment period regardless of high school success? I'm happy with his production WHEN he makes contact. Hes almost doubled his junior year strike out total in two fifteen inning scrimmages. Im guessing pitching is ahead of hitting now as well. Its cold...both teams faced are excellent with one ranked top 15 basically. Im not running out changing anything just wanting to discuss the transition to college pitching and if its normal to experience what he is right now
@edcoach posted:Anyone have any tips on getting a college freshman hitter to adapt to the better pitching (D2) son is 4 for 11 with 1 hr, 2 doubles and a single with 7 ks. He keeps finding himself in 2 strike counts. I think he needs to be more aggressive early in the count. Hitting with 2 strikes is a tough way to make a living.
If I'm doing the math right, he's batting. 363 and slugging. 818, right? If he keeps that pace, does it matter if his 7 outs are Ks or ground outs?
OK, maybe some coaches will look at it that way (above). And lucky for the player if he has such a coach.
But, as a dad, I see where you are coming from here. Nearly two-thirds of ABs resulting in strikeouts. And, some may see that as having major holes in his swing or being over matched.
It's a tough spot. If the player makes a change and adopts a two strike approach, he may lose his overall aggressiveness too.
Personally, and I swear by this, the best two strike approach is to not allow the count to get to two strikes. And, I don't see the harm in a parent telling their player to consider not always going deep in the count and to think about being aggressive early sometimes in their plate appearances.
Francis thats exactly what I told him...stay out of the two strike counts when you can....three of the hits were on the first or second pitch...the home run was on a two strike count. Mechanically the swing is good and he has plenty of bat speed...Definitely pleased with the hits he has but if he cuts the strikeouts back which I think he will he could have a big year
@edcoach posted:Francis thats exactly what I told him...stay out of the two strike counts when you can....three of the hits were on the first or second pitch...the home run was on a two strike count. Mechanically the swing is good and he has plenty of bat speed...Definitely pleased with the hits he has but if he cuts the strikeouts back which I think he will he could have a big year
Good luck. Keep us posted.
Pitchers dad here, take this with a grain of salt. Be aggressive early, my son was coached to get ahead early on hitters and get them 0-2, 1-2....finish them. I think all pitchers would love those scenarios.
What harm is it to swing at something early in the count that you are looking for and try to cause damage?
Side note, Son said pitchers were always ahead of hitters in fall...except when they first started and could only throw fastballs.
.364 BA and .818 SLG in his first 11 ABs as a college player, coming through a pandemic - ?
Whoa.
Pls give it time. He’s doing great.
Every single player on our team went 0-5 and most went 0-6 in their first ABs after breaking for the pandemic.
Did he follow this pattern? Were his 7Ks front-end loaded? And has his hitting picked up in his last 4-5 ABs?
Good hitters work the count.
Shoveit4ks love that info ill let him know you said that. Its exactly what happens lol.
Thx DD24...he usually works count well. The strikeouts seem to come more in the middle and end of games...in first game he hit homerun in 1at official at bat after a walk then he kd 3 times...then doubled then kd. Last game he kd doubled kd singled kd. Was facing univ of Central Oklahoma a d2 powerhouse. Just talking to a uco dad he thinks they have 10 pitchers 90+ including a few p5 dropdowns so am feeling a bit better about the ks.
I guess he is taking those first and second strikes more than you are pleased with. He is clearly hitting some that are in his "tunnel" in less than 2 strike counts. It is an adjustment and in fairness to him those called strikes could be from pitchers he is not tunneling or timing well rather than a passive take, I am sure the coaches are dealing with it if it is an issue. Just continue to be the good consigliere dad you are. I have been told and learned "advise when asked and always be supportive...especially when you know the decision he is making sucks...failure is the best teacher"
@edcoach posted:Shoveit4ks love that info ill let him know you said that. Its exactly what happens lol.
Thx DD24...he usually works count well. The strikeouts seem to come more in the middle and end of games...in first game he hit homerun in 1at official at bat after a walk then he kd 3 times...then doubled then kd. Last game he kd doubled kd singled kd. Was facing univ of Central Oklahoma a d2 powerhouse. Just talking to a uco dad he thinks they have 10 pitchers 90+ including a few p5 dropdowns so am feeling a bit better about the ks.
Awesome. If it is P5 pitching...he's doing even better than great.
Pls let us know how this weekend goes. Thanks.
I was talking to my kid about adapting to college pitching a while back. D3, so it's a little different. He said the most difficult thing about Freshman year was that most pitchers threw good sliders, unlike in HS, and he had to learn not just to lay off of sliders out of the zone, but to hit sliders in the zone.
A guy I coached with in LL Minors was always telling little guys "watch balls and swing at strikes". That part never changes.
Does your son watch the pitcher "warm up"in the bullpen? Does the pitcher have control on all 3 pitches? If not you reduce his pitches when at at bat.
The "cardinal sin" is missing the "hanging curve"!!!
I was told years ago, " you will get only one good pitch each time at bat, be ready!!!!"
Bob
Is there a certain pitch type that he is missing or taking such as fastball in or sliders in any location? It seems high level baseball is going very slider heavy in general. Sounds like he is doing great and it’s possible on the K’s he just got beat that AB. K’s walks and HRs are the modern era of baseball
Another pitchers dad here. It goes both ways. There are things freshman college pitchers and hitters (at all levels) learn by trial and error. The first thing my pitcher son learned was that it was so much harder to get fastballs in the zone past D1 college hitters...he learned that quickly in his first week. The better hitters learned how to hit off speed pitches which are significantly sharper in college than high school, and can be thrown consistently for strikes. I just think it is a matter of reps, and BP for off speed pitches because I think your son is probably seeing a ton of them. He's probably being pitched in reverse with breaking pitches early and fastballs out of the zone with 2 strikes or back with a breaking pitch. This is how I saw a majority of the 2-5 hitters being pitched in college. Once he demonstrates he can identify and hit breaking pitches early will the pitchers have to readjust to his adjustment
Just my observation....
Look on the bright side. I started 0-16 with 7 whiffs. Your son is 4-11. I was getting mostly one at bat at a time which made it harder. It got to the point where I started wondering if there would be a next at bat.
@JCG posted:I was talking to my kid about adapting to college pitching a while back. D3, so it's a little different. He said the most difficult thing about Freshman year was that most pitchers threw good sliders, unlike in HS, and he had to learn not just to lay off of sliders out of the zone, but to hit sliders in the zone.
A guy I coached with in LL Minors was always telling little guys "watch balls and swing at strikes". That part never changes.
Apparently the guy they faced yesterday was a drop down from Missouri with 4 pitches including a 95 mph fastball. First at bat took two strikes and swung and missed at 0-2 slider...Gave himself one swing. The next at bat swung at first pitch and doubled in right center field gap. Apparently his coach instructed the team to look fastball on 0-0 and not be thinking of 3 different possibilities. I just don't want him taking hittable fastballs into an 0-2 count
@d-mac posted:Is there a certain pitch type that he is missing or taking such as fastball in or sliders in any location? It seems high level baseball is going very slider heavy in general. Sounds like he is doing great and it’s possible on the K’s he just got beat that AB. K’s walks and HRs are the modern era of baseball
Hes gotten rung up on 4 of the ks dmac. One was a cutter on a full count (the ab before he took the kid deep on a 3-2 fastball inside) so he should have known he wasn't getting a fastball there. But to answer your question hes not overmatched but seems to be not aggressive enough.
Bob-he studies the pitcher on deck but I doubt when pitcher is in pen
@fenwaysouth posted:Another pitchers dad here. It goes both ways. There are things freshman college pitchers and hitters (at all levels) learn by trial and error. The first thing my pitcher son learned was that it was so much harder to get fastballs in the zone past D1 college hitters...he learned that quickly in his first week. The better hitters learned how to hit off speed pitches which are significantly sharper in college than high school, and can be thrown consistently for strikes. I just think it is a matter of reps, and BP for off speed pitches because I think your son is probably seeing a ton of them. He's probably being pitched in reverse with breaking pitches early and fastballs out of the zone with 2 strikes or back with a breaking pitch. This is how I saw a majority of the 2-5 hitters being pitched in college. Once he demonstrates he can identify and hit breaking pitches early will the pitchers have to readjust to his adjustment
Just my observation....
This is definitely the case. Theyll get him 0-1 and throw off speed get him 0-2 then try to nobble a corner with a good fastball. If they make a mistake he'll hurt them if not he grabs some bench
@edcoach posted:Anyone have any tips on getting a college freshman hitter to adapt to the better pitching (D2) son is 4 for 11 with 1 hr, 2 doubles and a single with 7 ks. He keeps finding himself in 2 strike counts. I think he needs to be more aggressive early in the count. Hitting with 2 strikes is a tough way to make a living.
Hi edcoach:
There is a definite transition from HS to college ball. One of my questions I have is does your son hit early in the lineup? Is that why he runs deep counts? My son was/is leadoff or #2, and tends to take pitches in the first AB or 2 to provide some info to the hitters after him. He is a "moneyball" type hitter. Watching him get down 0-2,1-2 gets me nervous too! One thing he noticed is that the high velocity college pitchers were also more accurate than the fastest pitchers in HS. And then the dreaded slider that he didn't see in HS. Some pitchers also develop a really good change-up too.
It may seem obvious, but your son will adapt more as he sees more pitches. This is one reason why a number of high drafted HS hitters struggle at the outset in the minors; they have seen fewer pitches and been in fewer tough situations. I am also with @RJM on looking at the bright side. As for a 4/11 start (despite the Ks) I would consider him lucky.
RipkenFanSon did not get a hit until his 5th college game and I think started 1 for 21. Yes there were some "moral" victories along the way--a 365 ft shot to straight away center and a comebacker hit so hard the pitcher ducked and shielded his face with glove and caught ball (@ Texas A&M). Your son should keep working hard, and asking questions from coaches or some of the older more seasoned hitters on team. RipkenFanSon is still playing, and still adapting as well to each new level of pitching he faces. Good luck to your son. Keep us updated and "enjoy the ride". It goes by quickly.
Thank you Ripken fan. He hits 3-5 hole. Hes always taken too many walks despite being relied on to drive in runs and not walk. Can I ask what level your son currently plays? I agree there will be a transition to the better pitching. Just like from junior high to hs. These college coaches seem to pressure their hitters...even the college softball coaches. Hitting is hard enough without added pressure
Another pitchers dad here. It goes both ways. There are things freshman college pitchers and hitters (at all levels) learn by trial and error.
After my blazing start (sarcasm) at the plate I raised my hand when the coach asked if there was a GD lefty who could come out of the pen throwing strikes. I was recruited as an outfielder. But senior year of high school I was 11-0, about 1.20 hitting upper 80’s in the mid 1970’s.
I didn’t give up a homer in high school. With the exception of a few hitters I pitched with a “hit this sucker” attitude.
The first time you’re standing on a mound (college) watching a walk off clear the fence is a very numbing feeling. You don’t want to make eye contact with anyone walking off the mound. I can still mentally picture the ball flying out of the park forty plus years later.
With the college baseball start I had I thought I was a candidate to star in intramurals soph year. It got better over freshman season as I adapted. While the season overall was a success as a situational reliever I returned to just playing outfield soph year.
@edcoach posted:These college coaches seem to pressure their hitters...even the college softball coaches. Hitting is hard enough without added pressure
Son’s coach was all about pressure in practice, hone your craft there and have fun playing in games...pressure was always a factor, always.
Empty the mind, focus on the "red" seams. Feel sorry for the pitcher. Choke the bat and explode!
Bob
@edcoach posted:These college coaches seem to pressure their hitters...even the college softball coaches.
"even the college softball coaches"
Not sure what you mean by that. Can you elaborate? Seems like a non sequiter to me. Not trying to bait you.
Thanks!
My son struck out twice in 110 plate appearances his senior year in HS. Freshman year in college he was going to be a PO but did get 8 AB's late in games as a PH. He took way too many strikes and K'd 6 of the 8 AB's. Didn't bat his sophomore year. Got 85 plate appearances his junior year....hit .262 with 19K's. Same issue as the OP is stating.....just way too many 2 strike counts and then seeing too many curveballs. Fast forward to his senior year....arm issue moved him to 1B/DH. He started jumping on early FB's and not letting pitchers get to their curve ball. He was at .370 at one point...finished at .319 and only struck out 14 times in 155 plate appearances.
@DD 2024 posted:"even the college softball coaches"
Not sure what you mean by that. Can you elaborate? Seems like a non sequiter to me. Not trying to bait you.
Thanks!
DD my sons girlfriend is freshman clean up hitter. She started slow and the coaches cussed at her...benched her....etc
@Buckeye 2015 posted:My son struck out twice in 110 plate appearances his senior year in HS. Freshman year in college he was going to be a PO but did get 8 AB's late in games as a PH. He took way too many strikes and K'd 6 of the 8 AB's. Didn't bat his sophomore year. Got 85 plate appearances his junior year....hit .262 with 19K's. Same issue as the OP is stating.....just way too many 2 strike counts and then seeing too many curveballs. Fast forward to his senior year....arm issue moved him to 1B/DH. He started jumping on early FB's and not letting pitchers get to their curve ball. He was at .370 at one point...finished at .319 and only struck out 14 times in 155 plate appearances.
Love hearing this buckeye thanks for posting
@RJM posted:Another pitchers dad here. It goes both ways. There are things freshman college pitchers and hitters (at all levels) learn by trial and error.
After my blazing start (sarcasm) at the plate I raised my hand when the coach asked if there was a GD lefty who could come out of the pen throwing strikes. I was recruited as an outfielder. But senior year of high school I was 11-0, about 1.20 hitting upper 80’s in the mid 1970’s.
I didn’t give up a homer in high school. With the exception of a few hitters I pitched with a “hit this sucker” attitude.
The first time you’re standing on a mound (college) watching a walk off clear the fence is a very numbing feeling. You don’t want to make eye contact with anyone walking off the mound. I can still mentally picture the ball flying out of the park forty plus years later.
With the college baseball start I had I thought I was a candidate to star in intramurals soph year. It got better over freshman season as I adapted. While the season overall was a success as a situational reliever I returned to just playing outfield soph year.
Baseball is so humbling. Gotta celebrate the successes extra i guess since they are so hard to come by
@edcoach posted:Anyone have any tips on getting a college freshman hitter to adapt to the better pitching (D2) son is 4 for 11 with 1 hr, 2 doubles and a single with 7 ks. He keeps finding himself in 2 strike counts. I think he needs to be more aggressive early in the count. Hitting with 2 strikes is a tough way to make a living.
Statistically, your son is doing about the same as mine did. As a freshman at a D2 JuCo, he had 4 hits in 11 at-bats with 1 walk, 2 strike outs, 1 run scored and no rbi's in the first 3 games. He finished the season with 118 at-bats, 147 plate appearances, 18 runs scored, 35 hits, 24 rbi's 16 walks, 12 SO, 2 HR, 8 doubles , .297 batting average, .403 on base percentage, and .415 slugging percentage in 46 games.
As I recall, many of his at-bats (at the least one one's we witnessed - we weren't able to attend all the games) were where he was 1-2 or 0-2 in the count. Even in HS, he tended to work the count deep. I never really kept track of where he was in the count when the hits came.
As long as he is hitting the ball hard with good technique he'll be fine. The more exposure to college pitching he gets, he'll adjust. It's either that or ride the pine. The hard work comes in practice - the apply it in the games.
@edcoach posted:Anyone have any tips on getting a college freshman hitter to adapt to the better pitching (D2) son is 4 for 11 with 1 hr, 2 doubles and a single with 7 ks. He keeps finding himself in 2 strike counts. I think he needs to be more aggressive early in the count. Hitting with 2 strikes is a tough way to make a living.
1. know the strike zone
2. be aggressive with fastballs early in the count. Nobody makes a career from hitting curve balls
3. be aggressive with fastballs late in the count.
4. Work the middle of field and go with pitches. Even in the college game the vast majority of great swings are on pitches that miss to the fat part, you will virtually always get at least one real good fastball to hit every AB...be aggressive with it.
so to summarize...be aggressive with fastballs!!
I would add that it's OK to swing at a fastball if it's just outside the zone by an inch and you know that you can still time it perfectly and barrel it up solid. Not every pitch has to be down the middle or else you are taking it.
Can I give you all my son's email so you can send him these? He doesn't listen to me. :-)
@FoxDad posted:As I recall, many of his at-bats (at the least one one's we witnessed - we weren't able to attend all the games) were where he was 1-2 or 0-2 in the count. Even in HS, he tended to work the count deep. I never really kept track of where he was in the count when the hits came.
I am not a huge analytics guy but you can be pretty much certain his hits don't come from behind in the count.
@old_school posted:I am not a huge analytics guy but you can be pretty much certain his hits don't come from behind in the count.
You are probably right, but I didn't track that particular data point. I don't think anyone did. At least not in HS. I know he got some hits when behind in the count, but certainly not all of them.
I can't imaging hitting outside FBs is not gospel to the hitting coach and and not practiced during his BP.
I think all players, pitchers and hitters, have to make an adjustment. In short freshman season last year, son had a .000 era through several appearances and then he realized playing D1 ball was not HS. He knew this day would come but was not fully ready for it. He had given up 5 HR's total in HS and travel ball. He threw a curveball at the knees 6" outside to a very good D1 player. He pulled it over the fence and parking lot. Son melted, maybe for the first time in his baseball career. Next batter had seeing eye single, next a double in the right spot between left and center that both missed. Strikeout and another single. He got pulled for the first time in his life for not getting outs. The next pitcher gave up two hits and he was credited with 5 runs in 1 inning. Welcome to big boy ball. He has worked hard on the mental side but has come to realize that some times you just can't throw the right pitch to get some guys out. He gave up another HR last week in inner-squad to an All American. Struck out the next two and got out of the inning. Coach told him we wanted to see how you responded this time to giving up HR and you succeeded. He had to realize that you can throw your best pitch but there are some guys out there in D1/SEC that will still hit it out. You move on and don't compound the problem. There is just a learning curve to moving to college from HS. As a college batter, you will see guys throwing pitches at greater speeds with better accuracy and have more pitches than you ever saw in HS. But once you get past the learning curve it is all about settling in.
At one point my son was 2 - 32 in ab's when he had 2 strikes on him. I think it's important to know how you got into those 2 strike counts. The best way to not strike out is to not get into a 2 strike count in the first place right? Lol. When your in HS and your in a 2-1 count 3-1 count you can pretty much bank on a fastball. In college things change. Especially in the middle of the order or the game situation dictates it.
Sometimes a take for a called strike is the best outcome before 2 strikes. Learning to stay confident with 2 strikes? Knowing how you got there? It is a learning curve for HS hitters because the rules of the past no longer apply in many cases. You can not be afraid of getting into a 2 strike count because if you are you will get yourself out more times than not.
Sometimes it's much easier for a freshman in college to hit than it is when he's a soph. There is no book on you. Your son will be fine if he continues to have success early in the count. He will be special if he can learn how to have that same success late in the count.
I couldn't tell by reading your OP if your son got behind in the count based on not swinging (too selective) or swinging at "marginal pitches" to be aggressive and missing or fouling. Here is a little different spin that worked for my son. Let me preface this by saying in HS and D1 son was known mainly for his bat. Son also had pretty good hand/eye coordination, bat control, pitch recognition, and plate discipline. Note that when comparing college to MLB doesn't necessarily apply, just his HS and college years are what I am referring to in this post . Son as a kid was taught to be selective, not to swing at marginal strikes unless he was specifically looking for it and the game situations (score, inning, runners on base, outs, etc). It seemed many at bats he was behind in the count, 0-2, 1-2. He used to lay off marginal strikes or foul off a pitch he was looking for (and technically should have barreled it). For him he didn't want to swing at a marginal strike and ground/fly out, pop up, not barrel it up for an easy out. It seemed like many of his XBS and HR occurred when behind in the count. His 3 year K average in D1 was around 17%, batting anywhere 1-4 in the lineup. Watching games I would see other players being aggressive and swinging early in the count and if there was contact and in play it often ended with a weak out. If a player has the confidence and ability he can make contact no matter what the count is, being behind in the count may not be such a bad thing. I once asked my son what type of attitude he had stepping into the box. He told me it was always a him vs pitcher contest, "show me what you got and I will show you what I got". He was looking for that one mistake to open the door. My son was also a slow starter every season thus it took him a few games to get his timing down. Edcoach, I wouldn't worry too much about your son at this point. As long as he is producing and coach hasn't made it an issue things will normalize. Best of luck.
Trust in Him great write up thank you. My son takes himself into two strike counts usually. Usually takes a decent fastball (very hittable) in the process. Last game in 4 ab he had 3 two strike counts but was more aggressive early and didn't strike out. He faced an ex Dallas Baptist pitcher and 2 other good ones. I think it'll get easier the more at bats he sees. The coach is hitting him in the 6 hole i think to keep pressure off him that the 3 or 4 hole would add plus hes the only freshman in the lineup
