Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Have to disagree with number three on that page. I find that if you palm the ball that you end up "choking" it, and lose much of your command with the pitch.
Important also is the same arm slot.
This is NOT an easy pitch to command, and one my son has hardest with. It was awesome in HS, but has had to go through some radical changes since then.
This is NOT an easy pitch to command, and one my son has hardest with. It was awesome in HS, but has had to go through some radical changes since then.
Nice list.
Jr regularly practices 5-6 different versions of changeups. He only uses the one that works best during a given game. It may vary from month to month.
Jr regularly practices 5-6 different versions of changeups. He only uses the one that works best during a given game. It may vary from month to month.
Son had great success with his CU until this last year. He didn't throw it very much and soon kind of lost the touch with it. His great success to this point was complimenting his fastball with his CU. Last year his coach fell in love with his hard breaking ball that son would go weeks at times without ever throwing it in a game. After a while he just lost touch with it and was no longer very effective with it. I will agree that the CU is the hardest to control. One of his fall coaches noticed his troubles and shifted his fingers and had him hold it with more of a splitter appraoch to which he found great new movement and deception. This spring we are looking forward to expanding upon the new approach.
One of the biggest struggles we have seen over the years is convincing coaches that the CU is most effective when thrown at a 8-10% drop. When son was 12 yrs old and throwing 65 mph it was hard to convince others that an effective CU velocity was around 58-60 mph. I shot a lot of convincing video proving this but it was impossible to convince unknowledgable coaches. They would place an emphasis on 10 mph drop for all ages regardless of velocity and not 10% which is a major problem when teaching kids to throw a proper CU. A kid who throws fastballs at 60 mph should not drop clear down to 50 mph. The losses become all too apparent in loss of arm speed or motion that tips off good batters.
One of the biggest struggles we have seen over the years is convincing coaches that the CU is most effective when thrown at a 8-10% drop. When son was 12 yrs old and throwing 65 mph it was hard to convince others that an effective CU velocity was around 58-60 mph. I shot a lot of convincing video proving this but it was impossible to convince unknowledgable coaches. They would place an emphasis on 10 mph drop for all ages regardless of velocity and not 10% which is a major problem when teaching kids to throw a proper CU. A kid who throws fastballs at 60 mph should not drop clear down to 50 mph. The losses become all too apparent in loss of arm speed or motion that tips off good batters.
As TPM posted the change up is one of the most difficult pitches to command. It takes a long time and lots of effort to get the proper grip, and arm action, location and movement. Throwing it from the stretch is even more difficult as you are trying to speed up and slow down at the same time. In HS it sometimes ends up being “thrown into the bat” which is why a good CB is preferred at this level. Younger kids will have to keep working on a grip and as they get older and their hands mature they will start to find a grip that works consistently. Since it is a feel pitch it is a good idea to always mix it in at the end of your longtoss/warm up session. My son will always throws around 30-50% of his final 60-70’ pull down sessions at the end of us LT using his change grip.
Nice piece the only thing I saw missing was the “straight change” grip and a little more focus on the grip strength and getting the fingers to come off the ball softly - like they are facing the sky. As my son’s instructor keeps telling him, “hold it and throw it like an raw egg”.
Nice piece the only thing I saw missing was the “straight change” grip and a little more focus on the grip strength and getting the fingers to come off the ball softly - like they are facing the sky. As my son’s instructor keeps telling him, “hold it and throw it like an raw egg”.
quote:Originally posted by Gingerbread Man:
When son was 12 yrs old and throwing 65 mph it was hard to convince others that an effective CU velocity was around 58-60 mph. I shot a lot of convincing video proving this but it was impossible to convince unknowledgable coaches. They would place an emphasis on 10 mph drop for all ages regardless of velocity and not 10% which is a major problem when teaching kids to throw a proper CU. A kid who throws fastballs at 60 mph should not drop clear down to 50 mph. The losses become all too apparent in loss of arm speed or motion that tips off good batters.
I never had any luck with changeups at this age either. (We used same arm motion/speed) They were hammered.
Thanks for your comments guys. All good stuff. Some of the things on my list never worked for me (palming being one of them) but I added them because they sometimes worked for other guys. If you didn't see Part 2 of the list (#6-10) click below. A couple things you mentioned are in that list.
Thanks for reading guys.
http://baseballbytheyard.blogs...hange-up-part-2.html
Thanks for reading guys.
http://baseballbytheyard.blogs...hange-up-part-2.html
Also ... a number of you mentioned "command issues." I think you are all correct. It is a difficult pitch to master but I think part of the solution is not trying to do too much with it. I've always recommended trying to throw it right down the middle, knee high. I felt that it's to your advantage to have the batter think it's a fat fastball down the pike to encourage him to swing. Aiming too much for the corners is tough for even major league guys. Just throw it down the middle and let the batter get himself out. As the old saying goes..."Throw strikes, Babe Ruth is dead!"
Most often with the CU the arm slot changes, thus tipping occurs. Then you have to work at it to get it back to where it should be, that is why it is hard to command.
Years ago very few ML guys really had really awesome change ups, now you see it often. CU has changed the game.
JMO.
Years ago very few ML guys really had really awesome change ups, now you see it often. CU has changed the game.
JMO.
quote:Originally posted by meachrm:
Also ... a number of you mentioned "command issues." I think you are all correct. It is a difficult pitch to master but I think part of the solution is not trying to do too much with it. I've always recommended trying to throw it right down the middle, knee high. I felt that it's to your advantage to have the batter think it's a fat fastball down the pike to encourage him to swing. Aiming too much for the corners is tough for even major league guys. Just throw it down the middle and let the batter get himself out. As the old saying goes..."Throw strikes, Babe Ruth is dead!"
It seems that with the control issues of the CU, I don't really believe many pro pitchers try to throw the CU with much accuracy (hitting the corners). The reason the fastball and curveball can be thrown with accuracy is because the fingertips are utilyzed more which have the most nerve endings in the hand and fingers.
The best CU pitchers in the business like Lincecum often comment that they have little to no control over where the pitch is going- just keep it down is all they are after.
I am not sure it is possible by most pro pitchers to hit spots with the CU like they do with the fastball.
I know that in my own sons case through the years he has been most confident and successful with his CU when he just keep it out of the strike zone- downwards, that is. He often has stated that he can't really feel where it is going to go other than either up or down.
I agree that the pitch needs to come in on the same plane as the fastball. Studies have shown that keeping the plane similar to the fastball during the first half of the motion will be most successful. Because of the change in speed the ball ends up low out of the strike zone and if hit usually is an easy ground ball.
I like to throw the The Deadliest Pitch: The Circle Change Circle or the C-change. Even though it is a more difficult pitch to learn at first it is the most effective because of the movement you get out of it when you throw it with proper How to Grip and Throw a Circle Change pitching mechanics of course.
You get the change of speed from the angle of your wrist and forearm angle. Keeping the ball back in the palm of your hand makes you lack control of the ball. I teach my pitchers to relax when throwing this pitch, also holding like an egg like you do your fastball.
Thank you for sharing
You get the change of speed from the angle of your wrist and forearm angle. Keeping the ball back in the palm of your hand makes you lack control of the ball. I teach my pitchers to relax when throwing this pitch, also holding like an egg like you do your fastball.
Thank you for sharing
quote:
One of the biggest struggles we have seen over the years is convincing coaches that the CU is most effective when thrown at a 8-10% drop. When son was 12 yrs old and throwing 65 mph it was hard to convince others that an effective CU velocity was around 58-60 mph. I shot a lot of convincing video proving this but it was impossible to convince unknowledgable coaches. They would place an emphasis on 10 mph drop for all ages regardless of velocity and not 10% which is a major problem when teaching kids to throw a proper CU. A kid who throws fastballs at 60 mph should not drop clear down to 50 mph. The losses become all too apparent in loss of arm speed or motion that tips off good batters.
The best change ups I have seen follow the 10% rule. After having seen a real good one, the batter will come back to the dugout after having swung through the pitch, then realize he had just struck out on a change.
Guys,
IMO the change is a lot easier to develop than we have stated. I think that trying to come up with an absolute relative to speed or % of fastball velocity is counter productive. Every pitcher is different due to all the variables inherent in pitching
( delivery/deception,arm slot,movement etc.)The hitter will tell you what the correct speed differential is for that pitcher.
There has been a lot of talk about the change being effective based on the hitter swinging & missing. IMO your basic change should be a contact change. I want weak fair ball contact. The change is generally thrown when the hitter has count leverage(ahead in the count) & looking for a fastball. This is normally 6-10 miles off of the fastball( Greg Maddux) but varies from pitcher to pitcher based on the aforementioned variables.I do believe that it is valuable to have a swing & miss change off of your change that is 12+ mph off of your fastball( 1.e. Trevor Hoffman)that can be a 2K putaway pitch.Both change ups enhance the effectiveness of the fastball by creating higher relative velocities.
Three factors will take velocity off your fastball( The change is a fastball thrown at a certain % of fastball velocity) to create change up velocity:1.Looser grip 2. Deeper grip 3. The part of the ball that is thrown( generally the top inside of the ball) The type of grip(palm,circle,3 finger,pitchfork,split,fosch,or vulcan to name a few) is not the most critical factor. As a matter of fact,many times the closer your change grip is to your fastball grip, the faster the learning process.
As many have stated the key is to take velocity off the change with out changing your fastball pitching mechanics( Same holds true for your breaking balls that are thrown with fastball arm speed & fastball mechanics. The only thing that changes is the part of the ball that is thrown.) IMO you are throwing the change from the so called "high ****" position & you just remain in that pronated position right through release with your fingers over & inside the ball( producing 2 plane arm side movement)This is more effective & healthier than staying behind the ball & trying to create the change at release by turning the ball over. I'm not a fan of the "backspin" 6 to 12 change because the pitcher has to pull down on the ball from behind the ball. This is a lot different than what you do on your fastball.Most ML pitchers throw 2 plane changes.
The reason that the change is hard to master is that we don't throw it enough. In the early stages it is best to throw into a catch net instead of using a catcher so that the pitcher can become trusting & get the "feel" for arm speed, release point,etc.. Any time you have a catcher the learning process falls apart & the resultant location of the pitch becomes the point of focus.Remember it's process(trust) over outcome. You can throw the change every day. It's best to throw no more than 3 changes in a row so that you do not lose your fastball mechanics. As a matter of fact, it's probably best to alternate the fast & change so that the fastball arm speed & mechanics carry over to the change. In the early stages it's better to throw the change too hard as opposed to too slow. This is an area where the radar gun has some value, especially with your older pitchers.Long tossing(80+ feet) your change is also valuable because it forces you to accelerate your arm. Also distance magnifies rotation & when you want two plane movement from your change, it is easy to see when you are long tossing it.Lastly & most importantly you must throw your cahnge up in games. Every time you miss with the change you must throw it again( maybe until you throw a strike with it)That's why off or pre season games where the scoreboard is not a factor are important in the development process.
JW
IMO the change is a lot easier to develop than we have stated. I think that trying to come up with an absolute relative to speed or % of fastball velocity is counter productive. Every pitcher is different due to all the variables inherent in pitching
( delivery/deception,arm slot,movement etc.)The hitter will tell you what the correct speed differential is for that pitcher.
There has been a lot of talk about the change being effective based on the hitter swinging & missing. IMO your basic change should be a contact change. I want weak fair ball contact. The change is generally thrown when the hitter has count leverage(ahead in the count) & looking for a fastball. This is normally 6-10 miles off of the fastball( Greg Maddux) but varies from pitcher to pitcher based on the aforementioned variables.I do believe that it is valuable to have a swing & miss change off of your change that is 12+ mph off of your fastball( 1.e. Trevor Hoffman)that can be a 2K putaway pitch.Both change ups enhance the effectiveness of the fastball by creating higher relative velocities.
Three factors will take velocity off your fastball( The change is a fastball thrown at a certain % of fastball velocity) to create change up velocity:1.Looser grip 2. Deeper grip 3. The part of the ball that is thrown( generally the top inside of the ball) The type of grip(palm,circle,3 finger,pitchfork,split,fosch,or vulcan to name a few) is not the most critical factor. As a matter of fact,many times the closer your change grip is to your fastball grip, the faster the learning process.
As many have stated the key is to take velocity off the change with out changing your fastball pitching mechanics( Same holds true for your breaking balls that are thrown with fastball arm speed & fastball mechanics. The only thing that changes is the part of the ball that is thrown.) IMO you are throwing the change from the so called "high ****" position & you just remain in that pronated position right through release with your fingers over & inside the ball( producing 2 plane arm side movement)This is more effective & healthier than staying behind the ball & trying to create the change at release by turning the ball over. I'm not a fan of the "backspin" 6 to 12 change because the pitcher has to pull down on the ball from behind the ball. This is a lot different than what you do on your fastball.Most ML pitchers throw 2 plane changes.
The reason that the change is hard to master is that we don't throw it enough. In the early stages it is best to throw into a catch net instead of using a catcher so that the pitcher can become trusting & get the "feel" for arm speed, release point,etc.. Any time you have a catcher the learning process falls apart & the resultant location of the pitch becomes the point of focus.Remember it's process(trust) over outcome. You can throw the change every day. It's best to throw no more than 3 changes in a row so that you do not lose your fastball mechanics. As a matter of fact, it's probably best to alternate the fast & change so that the fastball arm speed & mechanics carry over to the change. In the early stages it's better to throw the change too hard as opposed to too slow. This is an area where the radar gun has some value, especially with your older pitchers.Long tossing(80+ feet) your change is also valuable because it forces you to accelerate your arm. Also distance magnifies rotation & when you want two plane movement from your change, it is easy to see when you are long tossing it.Lastly & most importantly you must throw your cahnge up in games. Every time you miss with the change you must throw it again( maybe until you throw a strike with it)That's why off or pre season games where the scoreboard is not a factor are important in the development process.
JW
My HS freshman developed an excellent changeup with two plane movement as a 13U. He used it successfully for both his 13U and 14U seasons (Pony). It was a better pitch than a curve ball for him.
Here is what we did to develop it:
1. as other have said, do not choke it into palm
2. throw it exactly like a fastball (arm slot and speed)
3. focus on getting proper rotation of the ball (slight pronation at release) (his pitching coach suggested he experiment with different grips, starting with the circle, but now uses a 3-finger grip)
4. throw it at end of "warm up" at EVERY practice (or at end of pull-down phase if doing long-toss)
He started getting the two plane movement even when he was only throwing ~60MPH for the fastball.
We never worked on the CU velocity because if he got the ball rotation right, the movement and slight decrease in velocity was there.
The most important thing was the arm slot/arm speed, and proper rotation on the ball.
Here is what we did to develop it:
1. as other have said, do not choke it into palm
2. throw it exactly like a fastball (arm slot and speed)
3. focus on getting proper rotation of the ball (slight pronation at release) (his pitching coach suggested he experiment with different grips, starting with the circle, but now uses a 3-finger grip)
4. throw it at end of "warm up" at EVERY practice (or at end of pull-down phase if doing long-toss)
He started getting the two plane movement even when he was only throwing ~60MPH for the fastball.
We never worked on the CU velocity because if he got the ball rotation right, the movement and slight decrease in velocity was there.
The most important thing was the arm slot/arm speed, and proper rotation on the ball.
JW,
Explain the 2 plane approach? I dont grasp and I am interested.
Explain the 2 plane approach? I dont grasp and I am interested.
2 plane means it has arm side run as well as sink.
quote:Originally posted by bballdad175:
My HS freshman developed an excellent changeup with two plane movement as a 13U. He used it successfully for both his 13U and 14U seasons (Pony). It was a better pitch than a curve ball for him.
Here is what we did to develop it:
1. as other have said, do not choke it into palm
2. throw it exactly like a fastball (arm slot and speed)
3. focus on getting proper rotation of the ball (slight pronation at release) (his pitching coach suggested he experiment with different grips, starting with the circle, but now uses a 3-finger grip)
4. throw it at end of "warm up" at EVERY practice (or at end of pull-down phase if doing long-toss)
He started getting the two plane movement even when he was only throwing ~60MPH for the fastball.
We never worked on the CU velocity because if he got the ball rotation right, the movement and slight decrease in velocity was there.
The most important thing was the arm slot/arm speed, and proper rotation on the ball.
I should have also mentioned that we didn't see movement until he was at 54 feet.
And I agree with the other poster who said that the change got hammered at the 12U stage. If it does anything but land on the outside corner of the plate at 12U, it's going to be hit.
But still have them throw it all the time. Because by the time they get to 54 feet (or 60) they'll have it mastered.
Fred, I really like your use of visual objects to teach your point... Looking forward to more of your posts.
