And, in addition to THANKS to ALL for this great information. Also, THANKS to all for the best wishes for him. It's very kind and appreciated. (Also, geography is not an issue. That's a joke in my profile. )
So...if I am reading all this correctly, the recommendations for a kid entering HS who wants to play in college are:
Get bigger, stronger, faster and better!
Be very mindful of school grades and test scores!
Align yourself with a travel team where the coach/program has contacts and credibility at the right competitive level. But, don't worry about winning games. When it comes to selecting the right travel team its not about winning. You really need to be looking for a program that has deep contacts with the college recruiters, works to develop the player, understands what level the player should be playing at and works to get the players in a position to be seen by the proper people. You want to be with the right program by the fall season of Sophomore year.
College camps are a money maker and it only matters if the coaches invited you as a prospect through your HS or travel team.
Don't showcase unless the player has skills to show. Otherwise, it'll just be a waste of $$ and time.
For the most part, the only schools that recruit before the summer after junior year are D1s. Their interest starts (as relevant to position) with FB, 60-yard-dash, pop time, exit velocity, throwing velocity, and player height, those are what make them pay attention, then they look to see if you can play the game. If you don't hit those numbers, then you might as well wait until junior year and the summer after for showcases and camps.
As a parent, it's important that you learn the recruiting ropes, know where the kid's skills fall against their peers and maintain objectivity by getting sound feedback from quality coaches. Parents carry a lot of water during the recruiting process. Get smart, get active in developing a recruiting plan for your son.
High School ball goes fast. It's once in a lifetime. Make sure to enjoy the experience.
For the most part, the only schools that recruit before the summer after junior year are D1s. Their interest starts (as relevant to position) with FB, 60-yard-dash, pop time, exit velocity, throwing velocity, and player height, those are what make them pay attention, then they look to see if you can play the game. If you don't hit those numbers, then you might as well wait until junior year and the summer after for showcases and camps.
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I agree with all but this part. From what i have seen the top tier guys are identified from coaches seeing them in person at high profile events. Team USA and the pipeline into it can bring a lot of exposure. (Tho the pipeline is also a money-maker)
Francis7 posted:Align yourself with a travel team where the coach/program has contacts and credibility at the right competitive level. But, don't worry about winning games. When it comes to selecting the right travel team its not about winning. You really need to be looking for a program that has deep contacts with the college recruiters, works to develop the player, understands what level the player should be playing at and works to get the players in a position to be seen by the proper people.
It's not all about winning, but if your team isn't winning it might be time to reevaluate whether it is the right situation. If your team finds itself in tournaments going 0-4/1-3 it probably isn't a strong team and won't be of any benefit to your son. It's not all about winning, but they do have to win to have some of that credibility.
As for the development side. Most of the development is done on the players own time. One you get to a certain level, the coaches aren't there to teach your son proper mechanics or footwork. They're there to get your son in front of college coaches and they need your son to already be developed as a player. Your son will get better by seeing better pitching/hitting and playing on the same team as guys that have similar interests (college) pushing him. If your son needs development, he needs to be working in the offseason.
Agree with PA here, you don't want to be on a dog of a team at tournaments, because that says something about the program as well...but most quality coaches won't have teams that go 0-4 in a tournament.
Regarding development, again he is correct in that it's the time outside of the team practices that pay the most dividends for players. Lots of organizations will claim they developed the players if they commit to college or get drafted, but in reality those players were sometimes "guest" players or did 1-2 tournaments with them. That happens a lot.
Play in the most competitive environment in which your kid will get playing time. Enjoy the game. My son's best seasons have always been when he was enjoying the team, coaches, etc. This spring (senior HS season) will be the best of all, regardless of his stats, because he loves his coaches and teammates.
Don’t get “wowed” by an academy’s alumni list. They will list everyone whoever took one lesson there and may have never played for the team. A local academy claims a kid who got t AAA. He took one lesson there when he was thirteen.
I learned about alumni lists when I saw the names of son’s of two former college summer teammates who lived 400 miles away. I called them. The academy picked up the boys and two other future MLBers for one PG tournament and threw paying players under the bus (didn’t play them).
It’s one thing to add pitchers and catchers for a long tournament. It’s another thing to pick up a catcher, two middle infielders and a center fielder and not play you’r own players who are paying for exposure.
Regarding grades ...
80% of kids are graduating with a B (3.0) average. Public schools give out A’s and B’’s like candy at Halloween. If your son doesn’t have a 3.0 and doesn’t have a learning disability he’s not putting forth his best effort. If he wants to open up as many doors as possible for college baseball he has to be just as serious about his grades as his swing.
We played for an average team because my son wanted to stay with his friends. We didn't win a ton of games but I do think he will remember these summers forever. Knowing that the team itself wouldn't pull a lot of coaches, we did quite a few camps, showcases and invitational events to beef up his recruiting opportunities. We made this decision for Sophomore summer only after knowing that he was able to put up good numbers and performances at several previous showcases/camps. I think as long as you have a plan, lots of plans CAN work. I think it is a good idea to get measurables by the summer after Freshman year so that you know what you are working with.
This is sort of where we are with my son's team. GREAT facility. AWESOME coaches and instructors. I've scouted around and checked out many such programs. And, while some are good, I sincerely love the fact that my son gets to work with these guys.
However, the team, at least at my son's age, is not very competitive.
The do play all the "name" tournaments. But, they rarely compete. In the two years that he's been there, it's always three games and out at the weekend tournaments. And, it's usually 0-3 or 1-2 with a game or two where they got slaughtered. Once we had a game that was over in 57 minutes because of the run rule. And, the games where they've won, it's usually because the other team was REALLY bad.
The last tournament that they played this summer was at a major site and it was one of those Monday to Thursday things. And, there were A LOT of teams there for this one.
They lost the 1st game, 15-4. Had zero pitching in that one. They won the 2nd game 14-1. But, the team they played looked like they just pulled kids off the street and several of them were way under age. They won the 3rd game, 7-2. But, they had their best pitcher going. And, he's an older kid playing down. And, he was really on that night. The 4th and last game, they lost 10-0, game called after 4 innings.
And, by far, that was the best tournament performance that they had all year.
There have been plenty of times where they were crushed. They once played a very famous team at 13U which had monsters on it - including two kids who were already committed to major D1 schools. They lost that one in 3 innings. I think the score was 26-1, or very close to that mark.
Yes, for sure, it does get taxing after a while. And, it's not ideal - going into a tournament and knowing that you're going to lose more than you win, and, get pounded at times too.
On the bright side, my son has faced some really good pitchers and not been over-whelmed by them. And, he's had a chance to see just how good some kids are at his age.
Try not to be too emotionally attached to a team or coach. I’m not sure why you’d stick it out with a performance like those you’ve described. If you do, others may not be so willing, and it can get worse.
Francis7 posted:This is sort of where we are with my son's team. GREAT facility. AWESOME coaches and instructors. I've scouted around and checked out many such programs. And, while some are good, I sincerely love the fact that my son gets to work with these guys.
However, the team, at least at my son's age, is not very competitive.
Great coaches develop players but they also understand that exposure comes from putting a good product on the field. This means winning games and going deep in tournaments. It sounds like something is missing from this program that you'll need as your son goes deeper into HS.
Also, "wants to play with his friends" is a red flag that baseball is second priority, not the top priority.
Smitty28 posted:Francis7 posted:This is sort of where we are with my son's team. GREAT facility. AWESOME coaches and instructors. I've scouted around and checked out many such programs. And, while some are good, I sincerely love the fact that my son gets to work with these guys.
However, the team, at least at my son's age, is not very competitive.
Great coaches develop players but they also understand that exposure comes from putting a good product on the field. This means winning games and going deep in tournaments. It sounds like something is missing from this program that you'll need as your son goes deeper into HS.
Also, "wants to play with his friends" is a red flag that baseball is second priority, not the top priority.
Ok, I’ll beg to differ on the friends meaning baseball is second. My son just put in more work to play with his friends and still do all the extra showcases, camps and events. We were only home 8 days all summer. Baseball was definitely not back burner and my son committed Before junior year which was the goal. As long as you know the trade off and you are willing to put in the extra time, it can be just as effective as playing with a power team. Knowing the plan is what matters.
On the bright side, my son has faced some really good pitchers and not been overwhelmed by them.
Your son may have faced some pitchers better than others he’s faced. But when a kid is on a weak team he almost never sees the best pitching. Good teams don’t burn their better pitchers on a weak team. When my 13u to 16u teams faced a weak team I went from the back of the staff. I figured the worse case scenario was we would need a few more runs to ten run them.
Being on a weak team is ultimately a detriment to developing against the best pitchers and being seen by high level coaches looking for talent. It’s hard to leave an impression in three innings and one at bat when the team is getting mercied.
The better 17u teams coaches recruit from the better 15u and 16u teams. The coaches of the 15u and 16u teams pass the word up to the 17u coaching staff.
Also, once in high school it’s time to stop playing age appropriate and play up as far as possible and still succeed.
Thanks guys! I hear you and, believe me, I am concerned about it. I'm giving it one more season. He's a freshmen. In terms of age, next summer, it's 15U. If it turns out that the team is the same, with respect to being able to compete, I believe it's not a huge setback because he's young (summer of freshmen year, 15U). But, I do feel it's important to be aligned with a competitive group during your 2nd, 3rd and 4th year of school. And, we're already looking at possibilities.
We still don't know where he's going to fall this school season. For sure, he will be on the Freshmen team. If that doesn't happen, something really went wrong somewhere. There was some talk about him having a shot at varsity. But, some recent transfers in this season pretty much put an end to that possibility. (Maybe it could still happen if he does a position switch? But, that all remains to be seen.) Personally, I think it would be great to make JV as a freshmen, knowing the situation. However, it all remains to be seen!
Anyway, the point is this: He's yet to play an inning of High School ball. He's not on Varsity. He's not starting on Varsity.
He's very aware of all the "stuff" out there - showcases, etc. And, he always asks if and when...
And, my answer is always the same: Make Varsity. Start on Varsity. Play well as a starter on Varsity. And, THEN, you can start showcasing, etc. Because, until then, unless you're one of those freaks who can hit the ball 500 feet as an 8th grader or throw 92+ as 14-year old, no one is going to take notice of a kid who is not on his HS Varsity baseball team.
I am of the opinion that you work to get bigger- stronger-faster, develop your skills offensively and defensively and concentrate on grades. A Player does not need to be on a great team so long as they are playing regularly and against good competition. My 2015 played on a travel team with 12 players only (of which many pitched and hit) against good competition where they didn't win tournaments. These kids were all friends, great coach and more importantly good students. Eventually, 10 of the 12 went on to play college baseball at different levels. (5-D1, 2-D2, 2-D3 and 1-Juco)
The reason this team had success with players moving on to the next level was simple! Each player created opportunities, maybe with some sacrifice, for exposure in front of many HC/RC. The team didn't have to win or claim ranking of any sort while being exposed to the HC/RC at the same game to watch their ranked opponent. Each player may not have had the edge of being on the roster of a ranked or championed team, but rather each player was in the lineup every game competing and getting exposure. Some players also created opportunity with their "classroom" stats via grades and test scores and got into great academic schools they never would of got into based on just their academic merit.
From my experience with my 2015 he concentrated on the things he could control like grades and skill development and putting himself in the right situations to create opportunity. Yes he would of enjoyed the excitement of playing deep into tournaments but he wouldn't have been able to play everyday due to the large rosters needed to do so. IMO-Create opportunity that gives a player a chance to achieve their goal of playing at the collegiate level by working of what you can control.
I agree. Until your son is starting on varsity, recruiting is irrelevant. Unless he is at a powerhouse school which routinely produces D1 talent, none of it matters. Let him work this offseason and see where he is this spring during the HS season.
But just be wary. Good pitching at 14 is nothing. It doesn't matter where they're committed or how tall they are. Your son is in high school, age doesn't matter any more. If he wants to play varsity as a soph he needs to be either playing with the best 15 year olds or playing up getting used to 18 year olds with beards. Playing with and against other JV/freshman level players is not going to help.
If the coaches are good and the facilities are great, take lessons there and find a new team. Better yet, if the facilities and coaches are great - why aren't they competing?
PABaseball...what are you talking about? In my area it is common for kids to commit to P5 D1 programs before they ever play an inning of varsity baseball!
Play with the best travel organization you can and the #1 thing perform when it matters!! If you can't perform under pressure then they won't offer!
You don't need to be on varsity to showcase or get interest. My 2020 is a PO in a strong high school. He'll play varsity starting next spring. He's had colleges come down to see him over the summer and fall. Half his summer team was in the same situation with several now committed to D1 schools.
PABaseball posted:Better yet, if the facilities and coaches are great - why aren't they competing?
I would say it's 80% pitching, or lack there of...more so, there's little depth and consistency. Last year, there was one SP who you knew would be very good, just about every time. Then, there were a handful of pitchers who could be OK, or, would be a disaster because they couldn't throw strikes. And, then, there were one or two who really had no business pitching against higher level talent. It was just BP for the other team.
The other 20% was probably half fielding and half hitting. We had a few kids who would always turn fielding playes into adventures. And, the bottom of the order didn't have much thump to it. But, on the whole, it was pitching. They just need more pitchers and better stuff and consistency from some that they had on the team last year.
There are circumstances where a kid may be recruited before making varsity. But in most cases it’s a reasonable suggestion for a typical high school baseball player.
I played on a Legion team with guys from a powerhouse high school. Their three primary pitchers were drafted out of high school and went D1. Sitting behind them were two juniors and a soph who never saw a varsity mound until those three left.
The three following pitchers got D1 offers before seeing the varsity mound. They were seen pitching in Legion non conference games and MLB tryout camps (no travel ball then).
nycdad posted:You don't need to be on varsity to showcase or get interest. My 2020 is a PO in a strong high school. He'll play varsity starting next spring. He's had colleges come down to see him over the summer and fall.
People have told me that "they" will come look at pitchers. But, position players have to work to be seen. I can't say that I know this as fact. But, it seems to make sense. Someone else once told me "Get your kid on a team with good pitchers - because then maybe he will be seen because people will come out to see the pitchers. But, if your team has no pitching, nobody is coming to your field to check out your game."
You don't have to be a starting varsity player to be recruited...there's politics at the high school level and college coaches get that...it's more important how you perform at the showcases and tournaments than what goes on with the HS team.
nycdad posted:You don't need to be on varsity to showcase or get interest. My 2020 is a PO in a strong high school. He'll play varsity starting next spring. He's had colleges come down to see him over the summer and fall. Half his summer team was in the same situation with several now committed to D1 schools.
I agree. I said strong programs excluded. There are some underclassmen at schools with good baseball who are showcase ready. I'm just talking about run of the mill public high schools. Central High in Centralville.
However, freshmen and sophomores committing to UCLA and TCU can most likely make a varsity roster. More than likely would be the best player. If seniors are worried about playing time in high school, what is college going to be like? So yes, I would say until you're starting varsity don't worry about college (with the exceptions mentioned).
PABaseball posted:nycdad posted:You don't need to be on varsity to showcase or get interest. My 2020 is a PO in a strong high school. He'll play varsity starting next spring. He's had colleges come down to see him over the summer and fall. Half his summer team was in the same situation with several now committed to D1 schools.
I agree. I said strong programs excluded. There are some underclassmen at schools with good baseball who are showcase ready. I'm just talking about run of the mill public high schools. Central High in Centralville.
However, freshmen and sophomores committing to UCLA and TCU can most likely make a varsity roster. More than likely would be the best player. If seniors are worried about playing time in high school, what is college going to be like? So yes, I would say until you're starting varsity don't worry about college (with the exceptions mentioned).
My son is committed to TCU and though he was on varsity last year, he rode the bench...
CatcherDadNY posted:You don't have to be a starting varsity player to be recruited...there's politics at the high school level and college coaches get that...it's more important how you perform at the showcases and tournaments than what goes on with the HS team.
I would totally agree with what you are saying here. That said, though, once someone is seen at a showcase or tournament, would "one who saw him" not then look into where the player was in HS and PERHAPS have some questions over their initial impression if the kid was at an average HS and not playing on the varsity team? (I'm not suggesting this is the case. I am asking if it's possible because I don't know.)
I'm assuming you guys have pretty strong baseball? Or at the very least there is a very strong player(s) at his position
Yeah we were the number one 6a school in the nation most of the year. We had a P5 senior and 2 P5 juniors pitching in front of him. Both of the juniors (now seniors) have 2-3 scouts at their house every week now.
Francis 7....In our case, the HS coach had a strong loyalty to the seniors, so our 2019 rode the bench in favor of the 2018 catcher..the college coach where our son committed called the HS coach who admitted that our guy beat out the 2018 in the pre season games/tryout period...also said he had a hard time making the lineup every game because he realized that he wasn't putting the best player on the field...it happens at the high school level in strong programs like ours and I'm sure at others a well...the college coach told us that he sees it all the time and that's why he calls every recruit's HS coach.
Francis7 posted:CatcherDadNY posted:You don't have to be a starting varsity player to be recruited...there's politics at the high school level and college coaches get that...it's more important how you perform at the showcases and tournaments than what goes on with the HS team.
I would totally agree with what you are saying here. That said, though, once someone is seen at a showcase or tournament, would "one who saw him" not then look into where the player was in HS and PERHAPS have some questions over their initial impression if the kid was at an average HS and not playing on the varsity team? (I'm not suggesting this is the case. I am asking if it's possible because I don't know.)
Once the typical player is seen at a showcase or tournament where he plays high school isn’t really relevant. Unless your high school is known for pro prospects/major D1 top prospects and/or has a current prospect chances are no one will be showing up at the high school’s games.
Francis7 posted:nycdad posted:You don't need to be on varsity to showcase or get interest. My 2020 is a PO in a strong high school. He'll play varsity starting next spring. He's had colleges come down to see him over the summer and fall.
People have told me that "they" will come look at pitchers. But, position players have to work to be seen. I can't say that I know this as fact. But, it seems to make sense. Someone else once told me "Get your kid on a team with good pitchers - because then maybe he will be seen because people will come out to see the pitchers. But, if your team has no pitching, nobody is coming to your field to check out your game."
From a travel ball standpoint, that is generally correct. After good pitchers, a phenom SS who can also hit will draw as will anyone who can mash with power consistently. Next tier is a C who can hit and a CF who flies and can hit. For most everyone else, the whole recruiting process is considerably more challenging.
Francis7 posted:CatcherDadNY posted:You don't have to be a starting varsity player to be recruited...there's politics at the high school level and college coaches get that...it's more important how you perform at the showcases and tournaments than what goes on with the HS team.
I would totally agree with what you are saying here. That said, though, once someone is seen at a showcase or tournament, would "one who saw him" not then look into where the player was in HS and PERHAPS have some questions over their initial impression if the kid was at an average HS and not playing on the varsity team? (I'm not suggesting this is the case. I am asking if it's possible because I don't know.)
Yes, with consideration to the quality of the level of the HS/league. Francis, the "politics" thing comes up often. Of course politics is everywhere but as a baseball player looking to get recruited, generally, you darn well better be good enough in HS to separate yourself despite that variable (again, with consideration to the level). If you can't get past this hurdle, this may very well be a sign of what your ability will be to get over the MANY hurdles that follow through HS, recruiting, college ball and beyond. Don't allow your son/player to fall back on excuses, real or otherwise.
My son's HS carries 3 teams (frosh, JV and V). They are very strict in their ways, for example BB is only a spring sport (no fall ball). Regardless of talent level they prefer to keep the boys in their respective age groups to ensure they continue to bond with their classmates. I was informed there was only one kid who skipped soph JV ball and jumped to V as he was very physically mature and played at a much higher level than his peers, he ended up playing D1 in the south. The school applies this to all their sports, I was told they have nationally ranked lacrosse program and get D1 committed freshman and those kids play on the freshman team.
Summer Ball team is the answer
Figure out what your son wants.
I've got a 2019 and 2022. 2019 is on a lousy HS team, but started Varsity freshman year. He's on even lousier travel team. None of that mattered. What mattered was that my son knew what he wanted to study in college and where. He focused on his grades and test scores and did very well. He also trained. He then targeted those HC at schools he was interested in and went to their camps. The were all HA and asked for academic pre-reads. What my 2019 son wanted was not the baseball scholarship (ha!) but the "tip" for admissions. He got it as committed to play at his dream school.
My 2022 is a very different athlete and student. The path for him is going to be completely different. His HS is a state champion and he plays on a well recognized travel team. He works unbelievably hard at the game, and we keep stressing that he needs to work equally hard at this academics in order to have more options. But the grades are a struggle for him. So what worked for 2019 kid isn't going to work for my 2022 kid.
Figure out what your son wants.
Don't write off your high school team too quickly. My 2018 played varsity on a not-very-good HS team his freshman year, a better team his sophomore year, and conference winning, very good teams his junior and senior years. Coaches knew he made a difference. During several of the games he pitched, it was like watching old home week for the six to 10 college coaches hanging out behind home plate with their radars, catching up with each other.
The P5, D1 he is now attending sent their recruiting coach to a couple of games, their pitching coach to a couple more and the head coach to at least one before he committed. They did come to travel games held on their own campus and to one held at the Perfect Game headquarters in Cedar Rapids, but that was about it.
Our HS coach did his best for my son, but he knew his limitations. He collaborated with other coaches in town who had more to offer as far as pitching instruction to help my son be the best he could be. It takes a team to build a college-level pitcher. Get the best team together you can, and include great people at the HS, travel and instructional levels.
I have to ask - what's a P5?
Francis7 posted:I have to ask - what's a P5?
Power 5 conference (Pac 12, Big 12, SEC, ACC, Big Ten). It was originally meant to distinguish between football conferences. Not as meaningful in baseball, imo.
I love this site... Thread is very informative and was a needed read. My son went to a camp that was an hour or so away. Used it to visit his grandad afterward.
It is a small D1 school. It fits him but he is only a 2022 so things will change I am sure. Coach spoke to him on the side and told him he needed to focus on getting bigger, faster and stronger. He also asked about grades. Son told him he has As and Bs. Coach said to work harder on them also.
He also wants him to email him his summer team info. We have no idea about this one. What type team should we be looking for?
Thanks for the great thread and advice.
Alan
Cast a wide net with schools that he would want to attend even if he didn’t play ball.
You can’t really look for a team.
The hope is they’ll look for players and come across your son.
Finally, an independent analysis of his current develoPment and projection is critical. No one who knows him should do the projection