Advice on 3 potential errors (some weather-related)

IMO, No errors on any play.

While the standard is ordinary effort, generally its interpreted as basically requiring the fielder either touch the ball or essentially have it go through him (e.g., infielder ball between his legs).

Instance 1 was a miscommunication between three fielders; instance 2 was a player who will now never forget his sunglasses and use his glove to block the sun; instance 3 could be attributed to the weather.

The good news is that the first two instances provide great teaching moments and learning and implementing solutions will build the kids baseball skills.

The third instance will bedevil fielders - but over time each will learn to read how the elements effect the ball - and the result will also lead to improved skills.

None of those seem like routine plays 14u players would be expected make all of the time. I think if any of these plays are made the players gets a "ooh great catch". This is 14u ball and good teaching moments. I would mark them down as hits and remind the kids how to handle them better next time.

As Goosegg says, the standard is "ordinary effort."

You have to make a subjective decision. Considering the totality of circumstances--where the fielder was positioned, where and how the ball was hit, and other factors in play like wind and sun--should a player of average ability at that level of baseball be able to make the play while exerting ordinary effort?

One unofficial rule of thumb I use is to put myself in the position of the pitcher. Could the pitcher have reasonably expected the play to be made by average players at that level? 

Situation #1: Converging fielders can be a tough play at all levels. It's hard to look up into the sky, run at full speed and maintain awareness of others doing the same thing. Without seeing the play, it's easy to envision situations in which it isn't an error. 

Situation #2: Sounds like the fielder had plenty of time. You need to decide if an average fielder at that level should be expected either to wear sunglasses or know how to use his glove to shield the sun. If yes, it's an error. 

Situation #3: You decide if the weather turned an ordinary effort play into something harder than that.

If  you're the pitcher's dad:  All three are errors. 

If you're the hitters' dad:  All three are hits. 

Golfman25 posted:

If  you're the pitcher's dad:  All three are errors. 

If you're the hitters' dad:  All three are hits. 

As a pitcher's dad, I often suspected scorekeepers of basing their decision on their assumption that it's better to call it a hit and have the pitcher's dad hate them than to call it an error and have both the hitter's dad and the fielder's dad hate them.

Situation 1: Hit.  If caught it would have been a great play by any of the three players involved.  Not an ordinary effort play.

Situation 2:  Hit.  IT's exceptional effort to block the sun with the glove to make the play, especially at 14.  Chances are, even with sunglasses it could have been difficult to catch.  

Situation 3:  Hit.  It would take exceptional effort to quickly calculate the wind and rain effect.  If the player made the play everybody would have clapped, suggesting it wasn't an ordinary play with ordinary effort.

Thank you for all the responses. Great advice.

I have been keeping the book for years.  I can't tell you the number of times I have had the "he should have had it" - "the standard is ordinary effort" conversation.  However, this year, I have become frustrated by a first baseman who doesn't scoop well and never comes off the bag to block a ball.  The throws could be better but a better first baseman would have cut the errors in half or at least held the runner at first instead of letting the ball get by him and the runner going to 2nd.  

All this to say is that scoring is subjective and sometimes the wrong person is hit with the error (ex. SS makes a great play in the hole and throws off balance.  Ball is a low throw that one hops.  1st baseman scoops and misses - E6.  But a good 1B makes the play 9/10 times).  

When I did some official scoring in pro ball, I wouldn't make a change to my box score unless both managers agreed. Sometimes they would agree but often they would each find a call they wanted changed and both would agree to it.   

DadintheBox posted:

…All this to say is that scoring is subjective and sometimes the wrong person is hit with the error (ex. SS makes a great play in the hole and throws off balance.  Ball is a low throw that one hops.  1st baseman scoops and misses - E6.  But a good 1B makes the play 9/10 times).  ...

I agree that a good F3 saves a lot of errors, but it doesn’t matter. Any throw that strikes the ground that would have put a runner out if it was caught, is an error on the thrower.

OBR Rule 9.12(a )(1) Comment:…If a throw is low, wide or high, or strikes the ground, and a runner reaches base who otherwise would have been put out by such throw, the official scorer shall charge the player making the throw with an error.

I mentioned this before.  I don't really sweat what the guy who does the book. writes down.   A lot of time and at lower levels its a dad that means well or another player.  Not exactly experienced score keeping.  If your trying to keep track and record at the HS level for college recruiters, thats a different issue.   at 14/u it really doesn't to much.  

My son's a catcher and I know what he should and shouldn't get to....I dont sweat if the pitcher spikes the ball two feet in front of the plate and it goes up and over my catcher.  I actually heard a parent of the pitcher say the catcher should have had it.  LOL.   Ignorance is bliss I guess.

I make mental notes and discuss it with T after the game.  He knows if a hit goes through whether it was a hit, an error or a little luck.  He doesn't sweat the averages at 14/u.  He goes game by game.  

Not until the #s matter does he sweat it....

Kevin A posted:

 If your trying to keep track and record at the HS level for college recruiters, thats a different issue.   at 14/u it really doesn't to much.  

This has been brought up time and time again, but HS stats are not reliable (Many times the official score book is kept by a parent or player in the dugout) and college coaches rarely (If ever) take them into account.  What they do take into account is the player's tools.  Not saying HS stats shouldn't be kept, but statistically the data set is too small to mean anything.  Even at the college level where they play three times as many games in a season, the data set is not quite enough to mean much.  Or so I've been told.