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Advisors for sophomores?

jerseydadjerseydad1,000+ posts
I had an interesting thing happen to me last tonight that sent me for a loop. (Apologies in advance for the long post)

After my son pitched in a game at the PG Underclass National Showcase, a gentleman came up and introduced himself to me as an “advisor”. He said he felt my son was highly “projectable” and would like to start a dialogue of what his company could do to help my son get where he wants to go. (be it the right summer team, colleges and potentially pro status) While I stood their and tried to act like talking to an advisor/agent happened to me every day, in reality, I must have looked like a deer caught looking in the headlights. I have seen mention of advisors on previous posts (primarily in relation to junior and senior attended events), however my son is only a sophomore.

My initial reaction is that it is much too early in the process to be approached by an advisor/agent; however after reading PGSTAFF’s article (great article by the way) about how recruiting is starting earlier I am not sure I should just blow it off. The fact is we have been getting calls from summer teams interested in him playing for them. These are not local teams and would require him to live away from home for most of the summer. While this is very flattering and yes it does feed the ego to be considered to play with some of these prestigious programs, the fact is the kid just turned 16 and I’m not sure I am ready to ship him off to play ball a thousand miles away from home. Truth to be told it would be nice to have an advisors advice regarding the pro’s and con’s of each situation to help us make informed decisions regarding his baseball future.

While the advisor was very professional and I am giving him the benefit of the doubt that he is legit. I tend to be a skeptic and don’t want to be naïve, so we would obviously need to thoroughly check out what his company does and what their expectations are in return. I know that I am in uncharted territory here and could use a dose of HSBBWEB expertise regarding this matter. I am sure many of the websters here have dealt with some of these issues before.

I guess I thought that if my son continued to develop he would have at least until after his junior year before we starting dealing with the “what’s next” part of his baseball future. I would really appreciate some feedback on your experiences and how you “managed the journey” with your son’s progressions through what has become a baseball maze.

I am feeling a bit “Dazed and Confused”.
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Mike FMike F100+ posts
jerseydad,

First of all, congratulations on your son's obviously excellent outing at the showcase. While others who have been through the process already will have a better perspective than I do (my son is also a sophomore), I'll offer my two cents for what it's worth.

IMO your initial feeling that you still have a year is correct. If your son is getting invites to national travel teams, he's not flying under the radar. He's getting noticed. If he's a player, the national programs will still be there next year if you choose to go that route.

As to an advisor, if you can navigate through the sniping that creeps up from time to time, it seems that you can get all the advice you need on this web site for free.

Congratulations again and good luck in the future.

Mike F
Coach MercCoach Merc1,000+ posts
The PG event was very interesting in that the college coaches are in a quiet period but there were a lot of people scouting games. I saw many of the top summer programs in attendance with a few of their coaches who were taking notes during the games and skills. Being a summer coach, I had never given thought to looking for players at the event. I was there with my son and 7 of my players.

We also ran into a few advisors. Having a recriuter/advisor as a close friend, I didn't need to pay attention to the few who approached me, (not for my son 09') but for a few of my 07's. We didn't have the opportunity/knowledge to have an advisor before the 06's were juniors. If we did, it would have been benificial since the recruiting is starting earlier an earlier. I know of one 07' who was at a college camp and the coach wanted to make him an offer and wanted a verbal by the end of March....Having an advisor can be benificial.
URKillingMeBlueURKillingMeBlue1,000+ posts
jerseydad -

Congratulations - sounds like your son did quite well!

We faced a similar situation after a showcase several years ago, and while we were quite flattered, ultimately made the decision to pass; particularly since son was going to college.

One of our son's teammates, who ultimately was drafted out of high school, chose an advisor in his senior year of high school to help him navigate through the draft/college decision-making process.

I agree with Mike F in that IMHO, there is absolutely no need to hook up with an advisor at this point, if ever. Your son is clearly getting noticed without him, and will continued to be followed throughout his HS career. I also can't imagine that it would be necessary to send your son away from home for the summer. Given your location, I am sure there are outstanding options that would not require that sacrifice from you or your family.

Good luck - there are plenty of people with much more experience than me on this site. I'm sure they will chime in.

Enjoy!
justbaseballjustbaseball10,000+ posts
jerseydad - Your post makes me both VERY excited for you and your son...he is obviously extremely talented...but at the same time makes me sad about the earlier and earlier this is all happening.

With the information you have given here, it seems clear that you are going to have many, many choices on this matter. Advisors are not bad people...many of them are good, hard-working people who can be helpful on many fronts. The advisors we used were quite helpful in gaining inside information on college pitching coaches, other recruits headed to a particular school and former players who had played for certain coaches or schools. I also believe they were instrumental in opening up opportunities for our son...a trip to Joplin for the USA trials, perhaps recommendations here-and-there for various showcases. And then when the pro scouting process began, there were quite helpful in preparing us for what was to come. And finally, when our son was pretty committed to going to school, they were supportive of that even though it didn't result in one dime in their pockets.

To me, those are the types of people you are looking for. Perhaps this first advisor to talk to you is just such a person/company? In our case, the first one turned out to be the one we were most comfortable with...but you need to know there are many good ones out there...and a few not-so-good ones.

Your job as a parent, IMO, is to keep this type of hype and pressure off your son as long as possible. Take the phone calls...I didn't let my son meet any of them until midway through the summer before senior year. Think of some questions you want to ask each of them, take notes, ask others about the ones you talk too. But I really don't think you need to make any decision regarding this until at least a year from now...probably 1.5 years from now.

You sound like a smart guy...you can navigate this on your own for the time being. You can ask questions here publicly and privately about specifics...and you can make a great choice for your family in due time.

Enjoy the ride...sounds like you have a good one just around the corner! Wink
Last edited by justbaseball
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
Jerseydad,
Like the others I think congratulatory remarks are in order. Obviously your son is doing a great job. You should be on an emotional high! Now let’s ignore the emotions and talk business because that what this is. PURE BUSINESS!! We all need advisors all through high school if our son is contemplating going pro. Let me be your advisor for a few minutes. One thing about advice ... good advice is good and bad advice is bad. I know that’s profound but you will get both. Your son and his family are the ONLY ones that make the distinction between good and bad. I was always looking for advisors. I asked members of the HSBBW that had sons that had already been there. I also asked coaches and instructors and family members to be my advisors. In this case we’re talking about an agent camouflaged as an advisor. That’s not bad.... just fact. I had a very good advisor during my son’s draft out of high school. While he was a very well known agent, he acted as an advisor and never ventured out of bounds. When my son knew he was going to be drafted out of college he selected a different advisor/agent and I never got involved.
Keep in mind there is NO contract or agreement allowed (written or verbal) between a player or his parents and an advisor. You can actually use the advisor, or a number of advisors, during your son’s high school years and you have NO obligation. Advisors want you to feel obligated to them so they can be waiting in the wings when your son decides to turn pro. An ADVISOR makes no money. AGENTS do make money but only when your son signs a pro contract. At that time they will get a portion of his signing bonus. In my son’s case it was 5%. They make no more money until he makes it into MLB. So, should you use an advisor while your son is a sophomore in high school? I see no real harm but what would he advise you on?
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
quote:
I know of one 07' who was at a college camp and the coach wanted to make him an offer and wanted a verbal by the end of March....Having an advisor can be benificial.

Coach Merc,
I really respect your knowledge but I would never consider using an advisor/agent to help me make that decision.
Baseballdad1228Baseballdad1228500+ posts
Here is my 2 cents:

If your son is being approached by an advisor after performing well at an event, you probably never will need one at all. You can find a great travel program near home (I can suggest one I know of if you are from NJ), get him exposure through Perfect Game showcases and tournaments and any other vehicle that attracts college coaches. I thought TRHits' tournament in Rhode Island was great last summer.

Things are happening earlier in terms of recruiting, but I don't see the need to rush. There always will be a college and an opportunity for a talented baseball player. You also have this great HSBBW site if you need suggestions or direction. There are many here with lots of experience in all situations and the generosity to share what they know.

I wish you good luck and congratulations. Sounds like you will be having a fun problem!
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
quote:
If your son is being approached by an advisor after performing well at an event, you probably never will need one at all. You can find a great travel program near home (I can suggest one I know of if you are from NJ), get him exposure through Perfect Game showcases and tournaments and any other vehicle that attracts college coaches.


Am I missing something here? Are we talking about the same thing here? Advisor/Agents that are the people that negotiate professional contracts for baseball palayers?
Dad04Dad045,000+ posts
Jerseydad

You are getting great advice. If I were in your shoes, getting advice from someone with a vested interest in my son, I would always wonder how his advice affects him versus my son. Is he feathering his nest manipulating the situation? Just my skeptical nature, I guess.

I would much prefer more impartial advice from a knowledgable, reputable summer team coach or showcase operator (PGStaff), area proscout, or preferably all of the above.

Your son is on the radar screen. Congrats. shipping him off for the summer to play with and for people you don't know, although plenty of kids do it, isn't neccessary for success.

He could just as easily maximize his opportunity with hard work and good competition in a supportive environment, mixed in with a good pitching coach to check his mechanics and his psyche, from time to time.

The better your son plays the more choices he has, now and down the road. Your role is due dilligence. Summer team coaches, advisors, college coaches; there are saints and sinners in each group. Unfortuneately, first hand experience is usually the final judge on which is which. Trust your gut, but always try to verify and background check.

You will probably get private messages from coaches looking for players, just from your post. Buyer beware.
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
You should read the NCAA Website
NCAA LINK
Good indormation like this:
From the NCAA website:
* Initial contacts between agents and prospects now start as early as the sophomore year in high school, though the age range varies by sport. The bottom line is that elite athletes are being contacted by agents long before their collegiate eligibility expires. Conversation between agents and student-athletes is permitted; agreements are not.

For an 18- to 21-year-old playing college athletics with limited or no income, the status associated with having an agent, along with the appeal of money and gifts, is hard to pass up.

"To some people, having an agent contact you, or having an agent, can be a status symbol," Doering said. "It all depends on who you are as a person. It matters to some people, but to others, it doesn't. You make your own status by your playing ability; your agent doesn't help you make the team."
Coach MercCoach Merc1,000+ posts
Fungo,
I agree with you. My point was that even I was amazed that coaches were putting pressure on kids that had not even played their Jr year. For a parent/player that has never gone through the process this can be an awful situation. When a coach is already giving an offer with a deadline, trying to get a leg up on the others really at this early a time can cause a player to make a possible bad decision. The player in this case is not one of mine but a friend from CA who called me. I told them to wait, that in my opinion it's way to early.

Playing on a good travel team or attending the right events is the best advice to give any young player. What happens after that, when 50+ schools write and 20+ official visits are offered is when some good advice may be neeed. It doesn't need to be an advisor, it just has to be someone with some experience that you can trust. Otherwise spend more time here and continue to lean from those of you/us who have gone through the process.
Last edited by Coach Merc
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
Jerseydad,

You are getting better and more honest advice here than you’re likely to hear from some advisors. And it won’t cost you a dime!

Anyone can walk into the park at Ft Myers, this includes the very best and the very worst.

We’ve seen advisor/agents help kids a lot and we’ve seen some that can turn 1st round guys into 20th round or lower guys, single handedly, with their advice!

It’s fairly simple… the best do things in the best interest of the young player while others do what is in the best interest of themselves. If your son has talent there will be many who will act like your most trusted friend.

Keep listening to what people are telling you right here, many have first hand experience and absolutely no personal motives.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Great advice. There will always be a variety of opinions on the subject. Educating yourself and doing your homework before the draft will help to answer questions as well.
The best advisor/agent is the one who will give the best advice for the player and himself for the future. JMO. This statement may not be understood by some, but am now doing my own homework and learning alot more than when son first was going through the process. It's alot different for the HS player than the college player.

Suggestions for parents. Read
OFFICIAL VISIT by Ben Harrison
LICENSE TO DEAL by Jim Callis

Try not to put the horse before the cart. Your son must be doing well, but has a long way to go. Keep all in perspective.

I remember after son's first woodbat tournament as a junior hitting 90, when we returned that evening there were several messages on the machine from advisors, teams for travel.
The scariest call was from an advisor who told us he could hook son up with trainers and pitching coaches who could make him a first rounder. I think if I had not been educated and somewhat prepared, I could have fallen for it. Many people know that this can be a heady experience for many families and take advantage of that.
So happy I had been doing my homework on the HSBBW. Smile

Best of luck.
TPM
Last edited by TPM
leftydadleftydad1,000+ posts
Andy May (aka Dibble),

If your intent of the link is to dispute my description of my son's height/weight, I can give you Coach Rupp's cell number, if you need to verify. Those are last years height/weight listings.

You are a sick individual, Andy. In keeping with the HSBBW rules, I'll refrain from saying anything more about you on this web site. I warned you before, to never contact or mention my son again. Nuff said....

David
leftydadleftydad1,000+ posts
PG...

I have lost most of my email addresses, due to a computer crash, several months ago. Send me you email addy, to dmarshal5@earthlink.net

Tom,

The family had a great Christmas! Jesse had 5-A's and a B for the semester. A major upgrade from two years ago. As far as our mutual friend Andy, he will never change.....nor will I. Smile

Be good,
David
Last edited by leftydad
rz1rz15,000+ posts
All the above are great comments. A pre-senior in HS that has an advisor may be sending a subliminal message to teammates that he is above the team. What a terrible way to be thought of in your HS career. An advisor at that age is doing nothing positive for the player and the only one who can potentially benifet is the advisor.

All that advisor can do in those years is go out and strut the fact that he is advising player X. With that in mind and knowing that the word will eventually get to college scouts I would think that potentially some schools may not activly recruit the player thinking that when draft day comes he will bolt to to sign, leaving the college with a hole to fill late in the game. That might not be the mindset across the board but even if one school thinks this way, it is one school that got away for the wrong reason.

My bet is this advisor is playing a longshot in order to establish himself and get some names under his belt.
leftydadleftydad1,000+ posts
Andy,

Keep your clown posts. I don't need your responses. Quite impressive, though, with your little clown smiley faces. Sort of different, coming from an ex-college coach, ex-minor league coach and agent, as you portray yourself.

I can't imagine how anyone in their right mind would seek guidance from you, after years of reading your dribble, Dibble.

See ya',
David
A AHSpitcher17100+ posts
Well, i will admit i had an advisor at the beginning of my Junior year. Personally having one then is a big help, because when it came to the draft and college i was totally clueless.The only real advantage of having an advisor earlier is that they can help you select the right college to attend. Since most of them know the college coaches as well as the pros and know which colleges have good reps and which ones dont. But as a sophmore i'd think its way to early to have one, now if you have advisors coming and talking to you, it'd be best now to do background checks on their company, and then probably select one before your summer showcase tour. Since thats when they can help a lot.
jerseydadjerseydad1,000+ posts
Thanks to all that have posted their experiences and POV thus far. (keep it coming, a rookie like me has much to learn)

Once I got back to my hotel after the game, the first thing I thought of when trying to make since of my discussion with this advisor was… “What will the folks at the HSBBWEB think about this”? I am fairly new here but I can already see the value of this website and the sage advice and insight that can be gained here.

I hope I was not misunderstood as implying that I thought my son was ready to sign a NLI , pro contract or advisor for that matter. I know this is a marathon and not a sprint. He has a long way to go to play at the level he wants to be at. His biggest concern is that living in the north it is much more difficult to get to where you want to go in baseball. Not because there are not good baseball players and programs, from what I have seen (having lived in California prior to our move) is that the better players in the northeast are as good as the some of the better players in the south and west, the problem is there is not as many good players in one area to make it worth the schools while to spend a lot of time recruiting here. Thankfully there are some good baseball people around to help the really dedicated player to reach their goals.

The bottom line is that he will keep working hard to continue to improve and will continue to look for the best competition available to challenge him to get better. As parents we will do everything within reason to help him on his journey. Thankfully there are events like PG’s national showcases and the NJ Super 17 program to give these cold weather boys a chance to test their skills and hopefully be seen by the right people to help them reach their goals.

Thanks to the Perfect Game people for putting on a great program in Ft. Myers. applaude
Last edited by jerseydad
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
I have a problem with the information that's being said here.

quote:
Your son is clearly getting noticed without him, and will continued to be followed throughout his HS career


quote:
If your son is being approached by an advisor after performing well at an event, you probably never will need one at all. You can find a great travel program near home (I can suggest one I know of if you are from NJ), get him exposure through Perfect Game showcases and tournaments and any other vehicle that attracts college coaches


quote:
There are these "advisors" now who work on behalf of players to find them baseball/college opportunities. Basically they are paid to implement a strategy with either a best-case college or professional opportunity as the outcom


quote:
The only real advantage of having an advisor earlier is that they can help you select the right college to attend.


An adviser as we know it (and jerseyday is talking about) is an agent in the "recruiting" mode. His goal is to get his client into professional baseball so he can make money. By NCAA rules he has to assume the role of an unpaid adviser until he can get the player to sign. Once the player signs and he becomes a professional athlete, the player loses his NCAA eligibility and the adviser (agent)collects his money. Contrary to what is being said here, advisers are not on the scene to help players select the "right" college. If a player is a high draft pick I recommend using an adviser to help the parents and the players navigate through draft and the negotiations. The last person I would listen to about selecting a college would be and adviser/agent.

Read the information from a sports agent that describes how an adviser is an agent. MOST of the information is correct but understand it is is written by a sports agent. (I disagree with the first part of his first statement)
An adviser is someone who consults with the family on their college options, the athletes potential draft status and value and helps the player define their place in baseball’s amateur draft, all while following the guidelines set forth by the NCAA to ensure the athletes eligibility is maintained. One thing an adviser cannot do is communicate with Major League Baseball on behalf of a player without putting the player’s NCAA eligibility at risk.

A term that many people in the business world frequently use is a product life cycle. There is an agent-adviser life cycle and I have demonstrated that in the chart below. This exhibit represents the typical transformation of the relationship from adviser to agent all the way up to the June draft.

August through June Draft
Families speak with agents about the possibility of the agent representing their son in the next amateur baseball draft. They tell you about their themselves and how they can help families through the draft process.
January through June Draft
The list of potential agents is narrowed down and evaluated more closely. A second meeting between the parties may take place. A family may even disclose to an agent they have chosen an adviser to help them through the draft process. During this time the agent analyzes the market and establishes parameters that will help the player determine if he will accept an offer from a Major League Baseball team.

June Draft
Once the team has presented the player with an offer that is within the families financial parameters and it looks likely that the player will sign a professional contract, the transition from adviser to agent is almost complete. When the team finally does give the player an acceptable contract and it is clear he will sign with the club, the adviser becomes the agent.

The evolution of the adviser to agent comes full circle once the player has agreed to sign a professional contract. The entire evolution process is designed to protect the NCAA eligibility of the athlete, thus increasing their bargaining power with teams. The object of the game is leverage. The smarter a student-athlete is and the larger the value of the college scholarship, the more power the athlete has in negotiating a contract.
Everyone has his or her own opinion on whether an agent is needed. In my own experiences, I have found that players at all levels of professional baseball progress through the organization at a much faster pace when they have an agent.

Regardless of the round you are selected in, even if you go unselected, it is good to have an agent you turn to for advice. Remember, better to have had and not used at all than to not have and need.

I welcome your comments and questions. Please email any correspondence to: Jason Wood Jason Wood is a licensed sports agent in the State of Florida.
K KCBaseball100+ posts
Fungo...
I agree that advisors usually don't have any interest in guiding a player to college. They won't get paid until the player goes pro, so they'd have to be extremely patient to advise a 17-year-old to go to a DI college, knowing that the payoff for the agent won't come for over 3 years.
Here's a perfect example. My son has signed a NLI to play next fall at an SEC school. We were visited by a high profile advisor who would like to "help" my son, came to our house and put on a very impressive sales pitch. Lots of dollar signs and product endorsements for those on his client list. Our red flags went up when he suggested that it might be in my son's best interest to consider walking away from his D1 commitment and going JUCO next fall so he could be considered for the draft in one year instead of waiting three. Seems like that might be in the advisor's best interest, but not in my son's best interest.
BE CAREFUL! IMO, it seems like players don't need an advisor until they're ready to need an agent. Very different circumstances. We feel the SEC will be all the exposure our son needs and a great place to grow as a baseball player.
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
KC,
Thanks!
That same seed was planted for us too. I guess I talked to 20 to 30 advisers and most thought my son should turn pro out of high school and of the few that didn't, most of them suggested he go to a JUCO to keep his options open. After he signed with a D-1 some even wanted him to sign a dual NLI/LOI (D-1, JUCO). They may tell you they want the best for the player but they really want the $$. Granted they will "accomodate" the player's desires if they have to. Trying to guide the D-1 player to the JUCO allows them to hold on by a thread. That's better than loosing complete control.
Fungo
jerseydadjerseydad1,000+ posts
Interesting comments on how advisors/agents position themselves. The advisor I talked to made a big deal of using an example of someone he was working with that was offered just short of $1M to sign a pro contract however decided to go to school instead. He made sure to point out that they were supportive with his decision. I am thinking that some of these advisors might be fee based. Don't some of them charge a fee to help a kid into college or pro ball?
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