Age and talent

I noticed my son's ability at an early age, probably around 5 years. He could hit a mitt from around 40 feet with something on it.

I think you posted a great question but I am not sure there is a single answer.  From the boys I have watched and coached I would say that at the very young ages (5-8) it is easier to identify athleticism, coordination, speed and other base attributes but there will be a lot of these so just because someone stands out it doesn't translate to high level baseball potential.  By 14 you begin to see some clearer indication of "baseball greatness" in throwing velocity. and hitting skill but even then you may see a player who is truly amazing athletically and has superior baseball skills and in maybe 10% of those players you can say "That kid has IT" but the other 90% it is still about maturing and refining and honing skills but by 16 there starts to be greater separation and players begin to fall more into players vs prospects.  There is always the rare talent that develops later or the early talent that fades so it is still a crapshoot. It you figure the best college and pro scouts in the world can't get it 100% right it is probably realistic to say "it depends".

That being said I had the privilege of going on a mission trip to the DR years ago.  A friend of mine who owns a sporting goods store took a dozen baseballs, 3 aluminum bats and 12 gloves. *Gloves were all used and donated) We were in a very poor section of the country where many or the people were refuges from Haiti. the boys would play baseball in an open area maybe 150 foot square with rock strewn on the ground and large thorn bushes randomly growing in the field.  They used a wad of duct tape for the ball and a stick (not straight) as a bat and every minute they were not working they had a game going.  When my friend opened the duffle (By the way it too 2 days to pay the bribe to customs and get them to the village) the kids went crazy.  It was truly like they had never seen anything so beautiful in their lives.  They grabbed gloves and balls and bat and started immediately lefties wearing righty gloves with no thought to it.  Balls bounces across the uneven ground and were snatched up gracefully and thrown with amazing velocity to first.  One of the larger (maybe 11 or 12) came to bat and hit the ball beyond the dirt and into the thorn bushes at the outfield edge of the field.  As I began to walk toward the duffel I saw something I will never forget.  The outfielder maybe 8 or 9 ran headfirst into the thorn bushes and emerged some 20 second later with blood showing from several cuts on  his arms and legs with the ball in his hand and  the biggest smile I have ever seen.

There are some things you can never get out of your mind and that was one for me.

While my 2017 is only a HS Soph he is starting to see some recruiting action.

He had an aptitude for the game from an early age.  Understood the flow of the game and what needed to be done in what situation.  I think this came from having a brother that was 4 years older then him.  In addition he was always bigger and stronger then most of the kids.  Athletically he a little more gifted then most.  He was actually picked on a little by kids for his size and talent.  At one point I made him read the Herschel Walker story as he went through some of the same stuff as a little kid.  From the age of 10 on he was the kid most coaches went after in the early rounds of the local little league draft.  At 11 he was the first pick in the draft over the 12 YOs.

All that said, we approached youth sports with the attitude of he is just a little more advanced then most kids and eventually everyone will catch up  I've been involved in sports my entire life, playing one (not baseball) in college.  I remained involved with them before my sons were born.  My wife works as an administrator in our local district.  Between all that and my older son I knew that what happens pre-puberty and pre-HS does not mean jack.  Puberty is a very good equalizer.  In addition to the physical and mental changes the kids also have more distractions at this point in their lives (girls). 

In baseball once the kids hit the "big" field things change.   Some standouts at a younger age really struggle when it comes to the bigger field.  I have seen way too many kids fail once they get to this level.  Some of them were considered by their parents and others to be shoe-ins when it comes to college or the draft.  Fortunately my son has transitioned well.  Some of the others that are of his age that were the better players have not fared as well. 

All in all its my opinion that you can not really tell if a kid is going to make it to the next level until after their frosh or soph year in HS.  For some kids it may not even be until their Jr. year.  

The great thing about baseball is a kid can miss on some things and still be a very good player. In fact he can miss on several and still be a great player. For instance the kid that is not very athletic. Subject to be over weight. But he can throw the heck out of the baseball. Can't hit. Can't run. Can't field. But he can dominate a game from the hill. Or a kid can be very short, small frame, skinny, but flat out play the game. And there are all kinds of examples in between.

Some kids show signs of being very athletic at a young age. They can catch naturally. Throw with a natural arm motion. Swing the bat with a natural fluid swing. Some look like they have no shot of ever being a player. But the great thing is you just never know. Most of the best players at 6 and 7 are the best players at 16 17. But that is not always the case. I watched a kid who at 14 was very very average at best. And I watched him at 26 pitch for the AL in the ML All Star game and later game 7 of the WS. I have seen kids at 14 people thought were the next big thing get cut in HS. I have seen it from every possible direction.

I knew my youngest was going to be pretty good when he was 5. He could catch at that age. He could swing a bat and he could throw well. The question was if he would continue to progress, love the game and stay healthy. I figured my oldest would struggle at the game when he was 5 or 6. He looked like a fish out of water trying to hold a glove muchless catch. And I was right. But he did turn out to be a fantastic football player.

My youngest grew up with 3 very close friends and they all played together through HS. I knew they were going to be very good players at a young age. All of them were. Three were drafted two out of college one out of HS. There is a guy that stands out to me outside of the one's that played for me. His dad was the coach at UNC. I was working their camps every summer and fall at the time. He used to come to the camps and hang out all the time. He was so small for his age. He didn't catch well at all. He appeared so unathletic and weak for his age. But he loved the game so much and was such a hard worker. I remember checking the box scores when he was in HS. Nothing great, very average. By the time he was a sr he was a good player but definitely not what you would call a great one.

He went to UNC to play for his Dad. He blew up in college. Raked. Never got very tall. Did get much faster. And was lights out in college. He Dad got fired and he wanted to take a fall off to get his head together. He transferred to an SEC school and was again lights out. He was drafted and just retired from MLB. He had the last AB in the old Yankee Stadium and was an All Star. So yes and no. Yes you can tell. No you can't. And I think that is great.

Some time in the 7th grade I noticed my 2017 had special gifts on the basketball court and the baseball diamond.  But then he went off to high school and I realized, "No, I must be mistaken!"

In all seriousness, high school has been a humbling "valley" for 2017.  I've come to realize there are 3 types of freshman who can play varsity sports.  1. The true freshman who can make varsity roster AND be a positive contributor.  Those kids are rare and phenoms.  2.  The true freshman who can make roster BUT does not hurt or help team. He's just there trying to survive and develop against older guys.  3. True freshman who should not be on varsity roster.

Just because kid dominates in LL, early travel ball, middle school, does not mean he will do same in HS at outset.  Past two years of HS has been a VERY humbling experience for kid.  Hoping he will regain some of momentum he had back in middle school years as he grows into frame for Jr. and Sr. years.

Ups and downs that's for sure. 

The players I have seen who went on to play college or minor league ball defy ready characterization.

Some were early bloomers, some late. Some developed man strength early; some were wiry athletes who filled out.

The front of the pack looked a little different every year from 12 through the end of high school. A few of the best 12 years olds kept getting better and are still doing well in their early twenties, but most of the best 12 year olds stopped getting better, stopped growing, or chose to grow in other directions.

If I had written a list predicting who in my son's middle school baseball circle would advance in the game, it would have proved about as accurate as most people's NCAA brackets look this morning.

Drewseven,

My apologies, I just reread your OP and it clearly asks people who have been through the baseball journey to comment on player's developmental journey. I am not qualified I guess to make a reply!  I will eagerly read as veterans reply.

I echo what swampboy wrote.

I would add that, IMO, the great separator is "heart." While early skill/athleticism development may be uneven as some grow early and others late, as distractions arise (girls, other sports, interests) and dissipate, as puberty is initially on the horizon and then in the rear view mirror, heart is the constant.

Heart creates the love for the game - because as the game gets harder and faster - it takes ever increasing effort and focus to succeed; heart allows the player to get up off his knees every time he is humbled and fails in some aspect of the game (and for my S he spent more years on his knees then standing); heart allows them to compete and try to succeed in a sport where virtually every player closes his career (whether at the age of 12 or 40) on a down note and, on the professional level, where 1500 new bodies are signed every year which means 1500 must leave (out of roughly 7000 players total). Heart is what takes the middle-of-the-bell-curve player in talent to the tail of that curve.

I've seen chubby kids make it to proball; I've seen kids who were not great athletes make it to proball; I've seen kids turn down six figure jobs out of college to get the opportunity to play for $3,000 per year in proball; I've seen kids working after suffering potential career ending injuries make it to proball; I've seen kids who set school records in wild pitches, walks, and hit batters make it to proball (as pitchers).  Every one of those kids had heart - and you could see that unique facet at a fairly young age. (Of course, just because a kid has heart doesn't mean he has a career that goes any place in particular; it just means he has a key piece to the puzzle of life.)

I think your reply adds something so i wouldn't apologise.  I think there are hundreds of thousands of parents or coaches in every sport who see the tremendous potential in their children or their players.  Until you have the opportunity to move into a broader talent pool, in your case high school it is very hard to get perspective.  I think we have all had our "Horton hears a Who" moment when we were have to adjust our perspective based on new information.  That is why I strongly agree that hindsight is always the most accurate determinor of talent. 

True story, the first time i saw Cal Ripken play was playing against him in the State HS tournament.   He was so skinny I almost chuckled about how the scouts were paying him so much attention  when he looked like a strong wind would blow him over.  No fence on Aberdeens field but a huge tree about 380 feet out in center field.  His first AB he hit the tree obout 8 feet up and would have had a homerun had the ball not bounced right back at our center fielder to hold him to a triple.  I learned in that moment that my thoughts on talent were tainted by my previous competition...your experiences are yours alone so feel to share.

With 2016 it was 4-5 yrs. old.Just before he started school.I will say that from the time he was a very little guy the tought crossed my mind.It wasn't nesacarrily baseball tho.The little guy had an arm.I still remember when he was young enough to still be in diapers he had found a golf tee someplace.He was in the living room trying to get it to take hold sticking it in carpet.Along with that he just somehow knew what you do with a baseball.While neither should make anyone think this would lead to being a baseball player.At a very young age he was paying attention to what he saw on the TV.And somehow was starting to get the basics.I live close enough to a baseball field that for him to go there from any age is just a stick your head in door and yell it out your going.4-6 times at the very early age he would horn his way in with what was going on over there.I would then have parents over asking how old the kid was.

Question...not trying to hijack the thread, Joes87 made the comment "He had an aptitude for the game from an early age. Understood the flow of the game and what needed to be done in what situation.".....then he went onto talk about mental changes.

Are there successful ball players that didn't have an aptitude for the game early on?  For instance, is it something that clicks when the kid is in high school, or possibly learned?  Or do most successful baseball players instinctively understand the game at a young age?

No, not at all! I probably could have worded my initial post better. I really appreciate all those that have chimed in so far, regardless of the stage they are at. As a father going through the journey for the first time with a young son, it is great to hear the wisdom of those who have been through this, and can share experiences. Thanks for all the replies!

 It happens all kinds of ways. I have seen many kids really turn a corner when they get around some better talent. Several of my players worked harder the better they got, when you get really good at something practice can be fun. One of my favorite players truly did not care what position he played, when you read the lineup he was fired up to go to the outfield or infield, every position was his favorite. This must of been a good sign because he had offers from all the major programs.

I think long time coaches have a better perspective. As a dad you have a limited window into youth baseball. I used to wonder of all the kids and teams I've seen play, "Who's going to make the big leagues". The answer is likely NONE. My son and his teammates will soon be HS seniors and a few have college ball in their future. Don't think I'll see any in the MLB draft. Time will tell.

My son is unlikely to go on to pro ball. It's easier to look back than look forward. From the time my son started playing sports he dominated. More importantly he seemed to have natural instincts. In baseball and basketball it was understandable. I played and coached. But I knew nothing about soccer. The drive was also there. He wanted to be the best. From age ten on he wanted to practice as much as possible. When he was in LL he didn't want to just take grounders on a nearby field. He wanted them on the LL field so he could learn every bounce on the field.

Despite all these signs I was aware so many things can go wrong from any point through high school. There are plenty of distractions, some of them not legal. I've seen kids choose the wrong path. When he was sixteen a pro scout told me my son was a potential pro prospect.

Conversely, my daughter was a very mediocre athlete until she grew in middle school. She went from not making teams (except softball) to lettering in three sports and playing D1 college softball. The big change was changing from passive to intense and aggressive when she went from being one of the smaller kids to 5'10".

My son had no problem competing when he was 5'4" in 8th grade. He was 6'1" in high school. 6'2" in college.

It was when his third word out of his mouth was Baaal.

That's a good question and I think it has merit. I believe those that move forward instinctively have an understanding of how it works at a very early age.

Looking back I can't say son was the best player when he was younger, but people used to say to us, your son will play bb someday for a living. We laughed. He was blessed with that baseball body, long arms, long legs and huge hands.

Living in FL mine grew up at the spring training complexes. I really think that had a lot to do with his development. So did watching Smoltz, Glavin and Maddux on TV.

When our son was 8 to 9 years old we knew there was something to keep an eye on. He loved the game and he had the talent to play it. He wasn't the fastest or the most coordinated, but he had the heart and passion over and above his teammates. As he progressed thru little league we could see how he comprehended the game and he continued to excel. At 10 he started pitching, that's when we knew he was something special. We started him with a pitching instructor and he has had a pitching coach ever since. As parents we were the ones to never expect too much, but he always proved us wrong. We never considered him an athlete because he was slow and uncoordinated, but as the years continued he became that athlete through hard work and dedication. Now in his senior year he is one of the top pitchers leading the city in ERA. Most important to him, is his team winning and he's not concerned about stats, that's maturity. As a parent, your instincts will tell you. Just keep watching the little things.

Interesting question. When was my son was 8-9 years old he one of the best kids in the league. By the time he was 12-13 was charitably 10th or 11th on a 12 man select roster.The only thing keeping him on the team was he could rake, had lost all of his confidence in the field and rarely pitched.Through it all he worked very hard , joined a top summer ball program that was known to develop players. By high school one of the better underclassmen but had not grown. Grew his junior year and with it came the velocity. So now a Pitcher in college, I think back to those early years when the team would not pitch him as they had faster arms and only one of them are playing at the next level. In retrospect great he was not overused.

As others have said some are phenoms early while others develop later,  puberty is a great equalizer.What is common is the drive to get better and the desire to play at the next level.I can't tell you how many parties my son skipped in high school as he had to put in his work in and did not want to be in a place where it could cost him a scholarship. That part can be lonely but you have to respect the determination.

Interesting thoughts and posts.  Everybodys situation is going to be different.  My oldest son would watch games with me on TV when he was very young and he'd ask a million questions.  I think he understood a very complicated game at a young age 6-7 years old , however he was not able to translate that into performance on the the field until later.  Once he began to excel with rec ball then he was selected for a very good travel team at age 11 with very good coaching.  He had to work his way up from the bottom to the top of the youth travel team hierarchy to become their best pitcher.  He did the same thing when he was selected for an elite national travel team.  He always seemed to take a situation, work hard at it, and eventually rise to the top with patience, persistence and single-mindedness  This helped him with his college career and his current career.  People grow, develop, and mature at different rates so it would seem reasonable there is no one answer except to stick with it and continue to develop your skills.

Great thread. My son asked me to teach him how to pitch at age 4. He couldn't get enough of it. He couldn't wait to play T-Ball. The first ball thrown to him at his first T-Ball game hit him on the bill of his cap. He wanted to quit.

I think it was at age 9 that we knew he really had a talent and we got him on his first travel team. He has improved every step of the way and is now deciding between several D1 offers He has the talent, but he also has the drive and love of the game that I think is so important. Can't wait to see what the next step brings.

Been thinking how to respond to this topic. My son has always been tall for his age. Always the hardest throwing pitcher in our town (35,000). One of the best batters. Has been since he was 7 BUT did I know? no, I don't think that I did. Maybe I wished, wanted, thought it might be but I really didn't know. He was not one of the types mentioned above that always watched games, read about baseball, etc, etc. He rarely talked about it. He keeps most of his thoughts inside. I've never really coach him and that has been an obstacle that he has always had to overcome. He has always had to overcome Coaches' sons and friends of coaches' sons. Until the Summer before his Senior HS year, he has always played with a local travel team with limited exposure.

Yes, we (he) had been told that he would probably play in HS and also maybe college as he was growing up but it was not until he left the local area, went to a out-of-town team on which he knew no one and then pitched against some national competition in Atlanta, Ft Myers, Nashville, NYC that we (he) realized that college, and maybe more, was obtainable.

In short, baseball players come in all sizes, shapes, personalities and the trip to get to HS, College and Pro will vary by individual, IMO.

Still waiting...  hehe

But showing signs...

After 26 years of coaching high school and summer collegiate teams, the answer is still 'You never know'.  I've had kids drafted out of high school that fizzled out in college, I've had a 6'5 lefty that never topped 78 mph in high school. Pitch 7 years in pro ball up to the AAA level.  Was throwing 91-92 two years into his college career.  Was a walk-on and I begged my college coach to take him.  I had one 2 time all state player change sports and will some day be in the nfl hall of fame.  The mental game, injuries, burn out, etc.  I've seen it all.  Heart has been mentioned and I've seen lots with a big heart be successful and others with a big heart barely see any action in high school.  I think the biggest thing that gets overlooked is what baseball people call 'it'  I am going to a 20 year state championship reunion with kids (grown men now) this friday.  I have been thinking about those kids all week.  Some went on to have tremendous college and pro careers.  Others (who I respect as much or more) busted their tails every day to contribute to a state championship and are now husbands and great fathers.  One was a cancer survivor, another was about 5'2 and no one would give him a chance to play college ball.  Another had a condition from birth that he had to deal with.  Those kids got the most out of themselves and the game.  Those types of kids had 'it' to accomplish what they did to be able to play high school baseball.  That's the great thing about this game.  Success can be measured on a scale that is as diverse as in any sport.  I have a son playing college baseball and another that is a soph in high school.  The oldest is a great athlete but overthinks the game too much. The other is not a great athlete but has a knowledge for the game and the mental part down to a T.  Both are being very successful and on opposite ends of the baseball spectrum when you talk about 'it'