Age Cut off

Cutoffs may vary depending upon which league/affiliation you are part of, for example USSSA is May 1. It tends to have much more bearing at the younger ages, since some kids might be "held back" a grade and thus could be a year and a half or so older than their grade peers - a huge difference, say between ages 8 and a 9 1/2 year old in terms of physical ability. As they get older, the age difference vs. ability gap narrows.

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How exactly was the age cutoff determined? The reason I ask is that I do not understand why it does not correspond with their grade level.

How would you determine grade level on a national basis when not all states use the same date? I've lived in four states with four different deadline dates for entering school.

The deadline was moved from July 31 to April 30 as step one of a two step process to ultimately get the deadline to December 31, which is the international baseball deadling. The deadline changes are promoted by USA Baseball. It's up to the individual programs whether they choose to follow. It took PONY a while. But I believe every organization did make the change to April 30.

When the change came my son could have played another year of LL and 12U travel. He chose to stay with his original age group which for the most part is his grade age group. As a high school freshman he's now playing up two years even though we only see it as one year. Next year his team will play 18U except for staying in age for elite tournaments.

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Now at U12 some of the older boys have more facial hair than I do and their voices have already changed or are changing. Almost all the top teams at U12 have a team full of 7th graders.

Regardless of age, in the preteen years kids can be physically plus or minus three years of their actual age. One twelve year old may be physically fifteen while another is physically nine.

My son was 5 feet, 95 pounds when he was twelve. He was 5'4, 110 at fourteen. He's a late bloomer. One year later he's 5'11", 145, on his way to a projected 6'2". The physical playing field ultimately balances. Enjoy the game. No one remembers the 12U heros by high school unles it's "Remember when he used to be bigger than everyone and he was good. Now he's average."

The scariest kid in my LL was 5'9" and threw BB's. He was a 5'10" back of the pitching staff puss thrower in high school.

Here is something that I wrote that was published on Travel Ball Select and talked about in the Rounding Third Blog



A CALL FOR CHANGE


THE PROBLEM

The landscape of youth baseball as we know it has changed dramatically in the last decade. The best players have gravitated toward “travel” or “select” teams in search of finding the best competition. The popularity of the internet has also made a huge impact on how we look at youth baseball.

Little League baseball is known as the founding, organized youth baseball program in the country. They came up with an arbitrary birth date cutoff to separate the age levels. August 1 was the original cutoff date. Little League, in conjunction with USA Baseball, decided to change the cutoff date to May 1. The reason given was to get closer to the international baseball birth date cutoff (which is January 1) without going too far away from the previous date.

This “happy medium”, new cutoff date has created a competitive unbalance for the lower levels and made an absolute mess at the upper age, elite level. For now, I would like to address the upper age, elite level.

The new May 1 cutoff has changed the grade composition of aged-based teams. A 14 year old team would previously have had 80% 8th graders and 20% freshmen. The present ratio is closer to 50-50. The obvious problem is half your team is playing high school baseball in the spring and your team is depleted. The bigger challenge is that those 14 year old high school players are going to have to “play down” with kids a grade below in the summer time. They are not being challenged- therefore, they are not progressing.

The other age group that is being affected most is the 16’s. To reiterate, most 16 year old teams are now made up of half sophomores and half juniors. The college recruiting timeline has been moved up (for better or worse) almost a full year. It is not uncommon for juniors to verbally commit before they have played an inning of their junior year. We are now asking a large group of juniors to “play down” with sophomores (and some freshmen). These juniors need to be playing with other juniors and seniors in venues that will challenge their abilities and showcase their talents. Playing down is doing those kids a disservice.

THE SOLUTION

So, what is the answer? We have gone to a grade-based classification for our teams. We made the change in our program for many reasons. The first reason is that we felt our players needed to be challenged. They needed to compete against players in the same grade or above. Those same players that they were competing against on the field were the same ones that they were being measured up to by the college coaches and pro scouts. Coaches and scouts don’t recruit or draft by age. They do it by grade.

Secondly, we wanted to name our teams by their graduation date. Our program has always been about helping our players get to the next level. When a college coach or pro scout watches one of our teams, the players are easily identified by their grade- thus, making their job easier.

Some people feel that we might be at a competitive disadvantage because we will be playing against “older” teams to a certain extent. Our answer to that is simple- Is your program in it to win plastic trophies or to develop players to help get them to the next level?

This will be our first full year of grade-based teams. The results in the fall were very promising. There is no question that the elite programs in the country will evolve to grade-based classifications. This is what is best for the student-athletes and this is what the college coaches and pro scouts want to see. The sooner we accomplish this, the better for the sake of the players.

The problem with grade based age group is that it penalizes those kids who started school early and encourages parents to hold their children back a grade.

But, those are the kids that you will be playing with come HS correct? Isn't it better to play with those kids rather than possibly play at the age-based group that might be a year younger? I've seen many kids play at their correct age but not with the kids they will be playing HS ball with. They have yet to step on the full sized field and really play against kids that they will be fighting with for a spot on their HS team. Not much benefit I don't think.

80PATRIOT- BBfam answered it perfectly. I don't like this saying but "it is what it is". Those are the guys you are going to have to compete against in high school as well as for athletic scholarships.

You are looking at it from a competitive, summer-league basis. I'm saying that summer is to prepare you for high school and college.

I don't understand why anyone sees the cutoff dates as a problem. Once a kid is a teen he/she should play up to the level they are capable of playing. My 14U eligible son (May birthday) is playing 16U. My daughter played 18U softball when she was fifteen.

The problem isn't playing up it's playing down, especially 12-14. I don't think you get a realistic look at your ability if you are playing with kids a grade younger than you. I mean think about it, generally there is quite a bit of difference between Fr and Soph and Jr. and Sr. aged kids. With a couple of exceptions (and always playing up) kids play JV as Fr and Soph and Varsity as Jr/Sr and there is generally a huge difference between their level of play.

So don't play down. Find a talent appropriate place to play. It's only some rec leagues that force kids to play in a certain age group.

It really matters not what the cut off date is !

Regardless of the date some parents will feel their child is being short changed--

There is no perfect cutoff date

Although living in Ontario, Canada, my son plays 12U (50/70) travel ball about two hours south of home in Buffalo. In addition, our team participates in the 13U (60/90) league, as well. At 12 and 5'7/155 lbs. my guy is benefitting from the bigger field and taking to it well.

I am assuming that most of you guys are also on a full size diamond at 13U. If so, you are getting some guys who are getting one year at full size prior to HS and others getting two. Am I right?

Here in California the boys don't start playing on the bigger field until 14. Some LL plays on that dimension at 13. I know several kids that won't step foot on the bigger field until HS tryouts. I can't see any benefit by them playing with their "age-group" kids.

BTW TR-my own son has an April 22 birthday. He is only 8 days from being league age 11 but plays 12U. In no way do I feel he is short changed. He is only one of two 6th graders. Playing with older kids only makes him better.

In our area the kids get two years of middle school ball on the 60/90 before high school. They are required to use -3 bats in middle school. Our 13U and 14U summer ball is all 60/90.

Our local chapter of USSSA (ECTB) tried 54/80 for 13U fall ball last year. These would be kids who played LL at 46/60 and travel at 50/70 during the summer. It makes sense for the fall as a transition. I haven't talked to anyone about how it went.

Thanks for all the input.

It all equals out in the end.

I just find it a curiously arbitrary date.

U12 is a funny age because some kids voices have already changed and they have facial hair and then you have the kids that are still little boys with high voices and they may even indulge the Disney channel still.

My son holds his own but it is pretty funny to listen to him talk to a 7th grader who should already be shaving and has 50 lbs. on him or more and sounds like Paul Harvey.

He should not have a great deal of trouble transitioning to a 90 foot diamond in terms of arm strength at this point. He worked out with the local high school kids in a camp last year and they had him on the big diamond as a 5th grader. It was nice that the HS kids took him under their wing a bit.

Bill ....

If your kid can play he'll be fine. I told my son one of the harsh realities he's going to have to deal with is being one of the last to grow. His sister was the same way. He was 5'2" in 13U and 5'4" in 14U.

This year a parent asked a dumb question. He commented my son had a strong arm last year but this year throws bb's. He wanted to know what program he went on for arm strength. The answer was simple. I fed him. He grew seven inches and got stronger.

RJM,

I believe that harsh reality can work the other way as well. Some players, who have matured earlier, may feel that their HS playing is a lock; only to watch from the bench as a hard-working "late-bloomer" plays in the field.

That's why I constantly remind my son that his future HS playing days will be based more on how hard he works on his game, and less on how tall he may become. Because at some point, the differences in heights will balance out. (At least to some degree )

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I constantly remind my son that his future HS playing days will be based more on how hard he works on his game, and less on how tall he may become.

As soon as a player becomes satisfied and stands still, he will be going backwards. Others moving forward will pass him.

I kept telling my son how easy the game will be after he grows if he masters the fundamentals while he's small. He grew this year and stopped working as hard. I didn't think he was working hard enough. I wasn't looking at the big picture. We had a talk about it tonight. He said between training and playing three high school sports and the academic rigors of being in advanced honors, he's exhausted. It was his first year of high school. He said after finals over the next week or so he'll crank it up again.

I can't blame him for being exhausted. Just reading about his schedule made me tired .

I find it strange when for example a stacked 13U team with all 8th graders with May and June birthdays get excited about how good they are when playing against teams made up of 13's that are in the 7th grade. They get a trophy and the manager gets a bigger ego. Many of these older 8th graders should be playing up with their classmates at the 14U level. I get excited when I see a team with "normal" size kids who play the game well and sometimes beat these stacked teams.

You see it all the time - these huge kids who are physically bigger and stronger playing against younger players half their size - for what? And why the managers get so excited is beyond me. If I am coaching and I have a team that is bigger and stronger than my opponent what fun is it if I win all the time. You have the biggest/strongest players - you should win! Play against similar or better competition at every opportunity. Never play down IMHO.

Hey warningtrack,

I think you just hit my button. We see the same thing at U12. How hard is it for a 150 lb. 12 y.o. 7th grader to go yard with a 210 foot fence? There are teams out here who specifically draft only kids with May and June birthdays. I would sure expect them to be able to beat a team with a bunch of kids with March and April birthdays too.

I just love it when a bunch of 95 lb. 6th graders take it to those 7th graders. I love it even more when they find out it was a 6th grade pitcher that only gave up a couple of hits the entire game

There are a lot of kids that bloom early who will get a large dose of reality about the time they turn 16 and those small kids are now the same size running rings around them because they had to work so much harder when they were younger.


Bill

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Originally posted by Bill L.:
Hey warningtrack,

I think you just hit my button. We see the same thing at U12. How hard is it for a 150 lb. 12 y.o. 7th grader to go yard with a 210 foot fence? There are teams out here who specifically draft only kids with May and June birthdays. I would sure expect them to be able to beat a team with a bunch of kids with March and April birthdays too.

I just love it when a bunch of 95 lb. 6th graders take it to those 7th graders. I love it even more when they find out it was a 6th grade pitcher that only gave up a couple of hits the entire game

There are a lot of kids that bloom early who will get a large dose of reality about the time they turn 16 and those small kids are now the same size running rings around them because they had to work so much harder when they were younger.


Bill

I think you and warningtrack have muddied several points here. Is this a discussion about age, grade, or ability. In my case, I have a (recently graduated 6th grader) who's 12 with an October birthday. He clocks in at 5'9" and 140, thus he's both "physically stronger and bigger" as well as "younger". Thus, your arguments are not that simple.

My conclusion... play to their ability where they are challenged, but not overwhelmed.