Age or grade on travel team?

My son is in same situation(14) and his high school coach put it simple. He's a freshman playing on JV, he's been "playing up" all year, why go backwards. My question would be are scouts really looking at 14u teams anyway?

Basically you are deciding between a 15U team that will play a lot of 16U or a 16U team.

 

Essentially you are talking about playing the same level of competition - so you don't need to factor that in.

 

The next factor is, what team offers your son the best opportunity to progress as a player?  That can involve both coaching and playing time. Is either a show up and play type team, or do they practice to develop skills?  Either one can be fine, but you have to decide which is the best in your circumstance.  Also consider playing time. Travel ball is not the time to be a "team player" on the bench.

 

As far as scouts and recruiters - they aren't considering the "playing down" concept. They are looking at tools, and how they are used when playing against good competition.  A 2017 is a 2017 as far as the colleges are concerned. They have a short timeframe that you will be in their school.  Pro scouts may consider age when making projections - but they are going to do that regardless of what level your son plays this year.

Thanks Rob.

 

That was what I was thinking.  I know the coaches for the 15u team.  My son really relates to them, they are great instructors and they will push him.  Other then the "playing down" aspect, this is the best fit.  (Playing time, coaching, etc.)

Why won't the "top 15U" team put him with his grade on their 16U team? 

 

Our older son was in this mismatched age/grade situation (Worse, October birthday) and NorCal did him right and put him on the team that matched his grade, I.e. the higher age group team. 

This is an independent team.  We would be going with them for the coaches.  If he moved to 16u, it would be a different team/coach.

Play on grade, not age.

 

If the point of his travel ball is to compete for a slot in someone's college recruiting class, then unless you're thinking of holding him back a year in school, he should be out there competing against the guys he has to beat out to get that slot.

 

Also FYI, the shift to May 1 as the aging date is something that was done maybe 5-6 years ago (?).  Before that, for decades it was August 1.  IMHO if you're viewing your kid as "young for his grade" with a May birthday you're fooling yourself.  Lots of kids in his grade are in that age range.

Grade level to me puts him with his peers, so I say grade level. Also after going to many PG events first as an independent team then a very well known club (the players and coaches where the same they joined the club) many more scouts showed when the team switched to a club team.  16U was the first age we started seeing a lot of scouts at our games.  I say play your grade.

As background, the move from Aug. 1 to May 1 was intented to be "phase one" of an eventual shift to January 1.  This was something USA Baseball pushed to get America in line with the international standards.  All of USA Baseball's constituent organizations went with it and soon it was the new standard.

 

Which was a "tail wagging the dog" situation if ever there was one.  Tens of thousands of Little Leaguers on up were affected by this.  Maybe a few dozen ever get on the field in a Team USA uniform or in any sort of international play.

 

The reasoning behind August 1 was to try to pretty much keep kids playing against their schoolmates, since that was typically a date used for school systems as well.  There were always cases of guys with birthdays in August or September whose Little League eligibility might be off from their school year by a year.  But now we have lots, lots more of those cases, and frankly I don't see the point in it.  Unless the point was to have more 200 pound players on TV at Williamsport every August, playing on the 60' diamond, so that Brent Musburger could gush over what a mountain of a young man the kid is.

 

I've been wondering why "phase two" seems to have stalled.  But rest assured, somewhere there are officious intermeddlers still convinced that moving to January 1 is the one true way and trying to figure out when and how they can cram it through.

 

Not to pick on the OP, but more and more I hear people talking about this like their son is a special case if he plays on grade, "because he's young."  Just FYI, everyone hearing this thinks you're a helicopter parent.  Don't act like your son is special because he plays on grade, and don't act like he has a built-in excuse whenever he might fall short.  Either he's good enough to compete against his classmates for a college recruiting class slot, or he isn't.

My 2016 has always faced the same thing with a July b-day. Add to that a small town, so he was always age-level (though most of his classmates were an age up). Once he got to the big field he started playing up more appropriate with his grade. 

 

This summer he has played on a 16U tournament team...that has teams at every age. When they found out he is 15U eligible, they wanted to keep him there for their own good; I politely told them it was 16U or nothing, mainly so he could play with his Varsity teammates. 

 

All in all, if you are comfortable with him at 15U and most importantly the coaching he will receive, then that's the way you should go. I wish your son luck!

I'm with most of the others - stay with grade.  I'm not sure I've ever seen coaches good enough to keep me from doing that.

At the least play with his grade. At the most play up as far as his talent allows. The ASA softball date has always been December 31. We dealt with this issue with my daughter long before it became an issue with my son's May birthday. I felt playing by age was playing down instead of playing with his grade.

 

Youth baseball had it right with the original July 31 deadline. While school entry dates may vary from state to state most kids played with their grade. The only change that might have been better would have been to August 31. I don't think any states have school deadlines before this date.

The independent team vs academy question might actually be more important in your decision making. That was always a difficult choice for us. If your son is playing at a very high level, a great program with college connections will probably give him more recruiting opportunities. Many of the top programs actually take their teams to college campuses to showcase. They also talk to lots of schools about their prospects. It's a system that works for the very talented.

Midlo dad,

 

Thanks for the view point.  I don't consider myself a helicopter parent.  And my son can easily play with his grade, even above.  But I never thought about the fact that others may see his playing with his age as as "excuse" to look good.  Something else to consider.

Just to be clear, I was making a generic reference to the kind of talk I tend to hear around the ball fields -- not directed towards you.  I didn't see you making that kind of statement.

 

But you asked a question and I hope I've helped you find your answer.

I did not take it as an insult.  But it did help me realize that others who don't know me or my son may make that assumption.

I think prior to HS play with the best coaching available.  Once you hit HS coaching, while still important, is less of a factor.  I would play with grade.  What if the 16u throws in some 17u tournaments?  The 16/17u time period seems to be the real start of a kids future.  15u is a transition year - not a lot of scouting going on. Good luck

 

Not relevant to the OP, but for what it's worth, Little League is changing it age cutoff to Dec. 31st, starting in 2018 (see http://www.littleleague.org/Page60086.aspx and  http://www.pennlive.com/sports...keep_13-year-ol.html).  I guess this is phase two of USA Baseball's plan.

I agree with Midlo.  At this age, time to play with his grade not age.  IMO, it is a no brainer and not worth a ton of discussion, especially when talking a about a talented kid with aspirations post HS.  Know a family whose son is a talented player with size and strength beyond his years who as a rising Junior is finally playing with his grade this summer.  His dad was telling me how well he was doing then added, "and you know he really should be playing 15u".   Huh?! Have him play with and compete against the very best players possible that he will be compared to when college coaches are making decisions about roster slots for a certain incoming class.  If he is that good, have him join a team based on his grade that plays up a grade in certain events.

The date is changing. But they're going in the other direction. There won't be any more 7th grade thirteen year olds on the LL fields. The new rule is like hockey. What age a kid turns in that calendar year is his age for that year. It should lead to more "playing up." Kids with spring birthdays will want to play with the friends in their grade who have fall birthdays.

       
       


Yeah I think this new age cut off is just as dingbatted. Glad my son with a late December birthday will be thru it by then. Basically he would be forced to play up a grade which is fine now that he's on the big field but would have stunk at 8. I wish they would just realize they had it right in the first place.

Has anyone had their kid play "down" to their age on a temporary basis - specific to pitching - to perhaps stand out in terms of velocity and projectability?  Not talking about pitching for two teams, more like a one time thing at a well attended P G event.

LL needed to do something....first of all, it's just too dangerous for kids to be throwing from 46'...both because they are throwing too hard as 13 year olds....and because there is basically no time for a pitcher to react to a ball hit back at them.  The fields are too small for 13 year olds...and the bases are too short.  It wasn't baseball anymore...it was more like a slow pitch softball game where there are HR's every other at bat.  I've been to Williamsport twice...and when you see a kid from Saudi Arabia who is 6'8, 280 on the same field as kids who are 4'11 and 70 lbs, you know they had to do something. 

Size wise Aaron Durley was an extreme outlier. But he wasn't a very good baseball player. I met his mother at Williamsport. She's 6'2". The dad (a coach, was 6'6). After SA was eliminated his parents took him to Texas to live with his grandparents before heading back to the Mideast. He's a 6'10" center for TCU.

Your son who you say has talent, should be playing against the highest level of competition. That would be older kids where you get best pitchers. He needs to see just how good he is compared to others and what he needs to work on. If he's a Soph why play w 15 yr olds, when he could be on 16u playing in a few 17u tourn. 

Its nice playing for coach you know and like, but it's time to move on imo. Every kid has to experience new coaches sometime. That's why I hate to see a kid be coached by only daddy all their lives, even helping/coaching them in HS.

what does HS coach say? Where does he see your son fitting in best?

Since this thread has come back to life, I thought I would give an update.  My sophomore son, who could technically play 15u ended up on a top 16u travel team who played only 18u events this fall.  He loved it.  He told me "Dad, I have found a home."  

The biggest difference I now see between 15 and 16u teams (In addition to talent) is what they are focused on.  Up through 15u, it still seems to be about winning.  At 16u, it is more about exposure and preparing for college ball.  My son has had the chance to play on a couple of different college campuses this fall.  This gave him the chance to see what different schools offer and start to decide what type of school he is interested in.  

 

Looking back, I don't know why we ever even considered playing 15u.  If you think you have a chance to play in college, you need to be playing with your grade come 10th grade. 

The May 1st deadline does not seem to make much sense to me.... Have a start date around the start of school or a neutral date like Jan.1 especially for most youth leagues like usssa that have now become year round organizations.