Agent?

Bobcat - Read this link for the answers you are looking for:

http://www.hsbaseballweb.com/pro-scouting/agents_vs_advisors.htm

Good luck!

OK... Here's my deal. I was contacted by an agent with Octagon Sports. He called my father, sent a letter, and a book about the entire company.

The fact that he contacted us makes me extremely excited. Does this mean there may be an active interest among many teams in myself?

It might mean that...more conservatively it probably means that this agent sees a fair amount of potential and projectibility in you. Thats a very good thing...he wouldn't waste his time with just anyone.

While he might be an "agent," you want to be careful to keep him and refer to him as an "adviser" for now. Don't pay him anything and don't take anything from him. That way you stay fully eligible to play college ball.

Again, good luck.

and don't sign anything

Repeat: Dont take anything from him, not a hat, not a meal, not even a music CD, nothing... don't jeopardize your eligability.

Advisor, advisor, advisor, repeat after me, advisor, advisor, advisor.

The fact that he is talking to you not only means that he sees something about you he likes (skill, potential, etc) he was proabably told something about you by someone- a pro-scout, a college recruiter or someone has told him that you have a shot, albeit just a shot.

Dont get too caught up in it. Play ball, thats your job right now. You'll know soon enough about how you are being looked at regarding the draft, etc. And, even if you are on a teams draft list, you may want to go to college to get even better....and prepare yourself for life after baseball.

This dosent mean you must ignor the potential advisor, you can converse and talk with him, ask questions, etc. but they will usually tell you all the positives and they will usually stay far away from the negitives. Hey, they want your business.... it is a business.

I would also suggest that you/your parents do a little research about this advisor and others in the area who might also be interested in working with you. Some of our son's former teammates ... who were more likely to get drafted out of high school ... talked with their high school coach regarding advisors as many of the coaches have worked with the advisors for a long time.

Both you and your parents need to educate yourselves as much as possible. Congratulations, you have obviously gotten on somebody's radar. Now, start your homework. Use all the resources at your disposal, including former players, coaches and parents who have gone down this road before. I learned a tremendous amount from this website and found the advice invaluable. I would put the Hsbb website in your parents favorite list. You keep up the hard work and turn the advisor stuff over to your parents. My son got to the point were he only wanted to be involved on a need to know basis. I was glad to do it and he was able to focus on the part he loved, baseball.

The topic of agents/advisors is one we deal with continually. Often I have stated that 75% or more of the advisors out there could care less about your son. They’re ONLY interested in their percentage of his signing bonus.

Each year at this time there are a hundred or more kids out there being told they will go in the first round. Only thirty some of them will, as we all know. There are maybe a thousand players who are told they will get drafted in the top 5 rounds. As we all know, only 150 some will actually get drafted in the first 5 rounds. Agents/advisors can’t get a player drafted, the players ability and the scouts opinion is the only thing that counts.

Honesty is a rare commodity in the agent/advisor industry. (Good honest advisors do exist, though) The easiest thing in the world for a player to do is to change the choice of advisors. (drop him in a heart beat) Advisors know this and some will go to great lengths (even give BAD advice) that insures less exposure to other better and more honest agencies. (the competition) Even if this same exposure could be very helpful to that player and to the scouting community.

Surely, you have heard how greatly interested they are in doing anything possible to help your son because they care so very much about his future as a player!

Well one thing very few would do is give him up to someone else. 3 or 4% of $250,000 is better than 0% of 2 million. So one of the most important jobs of the agent/advisor after getting the player/parent to agree… is to be able to keep that player. Keeping the player can be just as difficult as getting him in the first place. Each year (between now and the draft) players change their mind and go with someone else. The easiest and surest way to keep the player is to ADVISE that player he does not need to go to places where all the BIG TIME agents hang out! Also, the same places where all the highest level scouts are in attendance.

Now, is this in the best interest of the player? There are many excellent reasons for a player to decide not to attend certain events. These good reasons should never require an advisors advice! Everyone needs to consider if the advice is attended to help the player or to help the advisor by protecting the player from the competition. (not the players competition) Please understand that this is a very competitive business involving a lot of money with a large number of shady characters involved.

Also keep in mind that the scouting community is very concerned with who wants to play and why some appear to hide from the best competition. Are they injured? Are they worried (fear) of performing poorly? Are they satisfied? Do they love competition? Do they love the big stage? Kazmir sure loved it, Delmon Young loved it, the Uptons loved it, Lubanski, Milledge, Billingsly, Pelfrey, Sowers, Allison, Clement, Rasmus, Fielder, Kotchman, Greinke, Bush, Nelson, etc. etc. all loved the very best competition and the biggest stage possible. It didn’t make any difference who their advisor was… no one was talking them out of doing what they do best… playing baseball!

We know several honest hard working agent/advisors and they would agree 100% in what is being written here. Some are the biggest and best in the business.

A good question to ask someone who wants to advise your son:

Would you rather my son went with you and was drafted in the 5th round or would you rather he went with someone else and was drafted in the 1st round?

Bottom line: Once you ask the question above and get the answer you will find something out.

Agent/advisor answers (this will be the answer most often) of course I would rather your son go in the 1st round than the 5th even if we were not involved. However, we feel we are the ones who can make that happen.

Agent/advisor answers - of course I would rather your son go in the 1st round than the 5th even if we were not involved. However, where he gets picked is up to him rather than us or anyone else. (Could be true answer, but then why such a need for the early decision on an advisor?)

Agent/advisor answers – Yes I would rather have a percentage of your son’s 5th round money than get absolutely nothing. You won’t hear this answer very often, but in most cases it is the only honest answer. (Maybe this is the guy you want to deal with!)

All of the above will cause some involved in the (advisor) business to get upset. Some might even become Perfect Game bad mouthers. However, we will put our reputation for honesty against those bad mouthers any day. We have been told we could make a fortune by getting involved in the agent business. Afterall we get to know these players and their family long before most agents know about them. There is nothing we can’t do, that an advisor can, for a high school player who has draftable talent. In fact, in some ways we can do much more because the only thing an advisor can do is get his player well known in the scouting community. No one does that better than PG and there is nothing we can’t handle involving the draft. We even have employees who have been agents before coming to work for us. And we have other employees who have drafted and signed players. We even have employees who have worked in MLB front offices. And we have our own PG Scouting Director committee that has over two thirds of all the MLB Scouting Directors on it.

We never have considered getting involved because it would create a big conflict of interest with what we do now. (scouting and reporting) Not being involved allows us to remain completely honest and fair. We have considered offering an absolutely no cost advisor service (0%) of the bonus, but that might hurt a few of the truly honest people in the business. If we did got involved we would turn the players over to the very best once they have signed. That is when a player truly needs an agent! The draft is very simple stuff! Arbitration, endorsements, financial issues, etc. are beyond our expertise.

As stated by PGStaff:

quote:

Also keep in mind that the scouting community is very concerned with who wants to play and why some appear to hide from the best competition. Are they injured? Are they worried (fear) of performing poorly? Are they satisfied? Do they love competition?

This statement concerns me.
My son would love to travel to Florida every time he's been asked. He'd love to jump on the plane to Australia this Christmas as he has been asked two years in a row. Don't interpret his absence as fear of competition.
For some of us its fear of the VISA bill!
We just got our statement for last month and it reflects numerous plane tickets to fly along with our son on his official visits across the country. Now its time to budget for Christmas purchases. I wish our funds were unlimited!
My son was asked by two teams to go to Jupiter. The MLB scout from one team assured me that we weren't going to have a "black eye" on our son if he didn't attend. He traveled 5 weekends out of 7 this fall to check out colleges before the early signing period. He willingly missed a lot of his senior year's fall activities, but he did get tired of traveling, missing the football season here at home, and working to maintain his grades this fall.
The Scouts have said they will be coming to us this spring and watch his high school season. We'll have to trust that it will be enough.

The rest of your post regarding advisors seems helpful, but this small reference appears to play on the guilt of not attending. Parents have enough to worry about through this confusing process!

Sometimes coaches seem to forget that most people have limited budgets. My son has never been to a big showcase in Florida etc, We would have loved to go there and some of the PG,Area Codes and so on. I follow lots of players and my son is at the same place or better than the guys who did all this stuff. I think those showcases can be wonderful but he has his chance to make it or break it now. He had great coaching and the ability to go where he wants. All up to him.

Pick your spots to perform. Believe me the scouts and list makers remember the bad performances. Only go out of your way if you are rested and at the top of your game. Spend your money wisely. My experience has been if you can play they will find you. You do not have to do the pay to play circuit to get noticed, drafted or recruited. That does not mean you don't like to compete, it only means that your parents may be a little more frugal with their budgets. Get on the best team you can, make some good friends with your teammates and play the game, for them not the people sitting in the stands.

KC,
I think what PG was saying is that you will find many advisors who will tell your son, "you don't have to go to that event, you have me to let scouts know all about you". We heard that along with, "we need to get your son a trainer to get bigger and stronger, to, don't sign with a college until the spring to go to college first, to don't go to college if you really are serious about playing pro ball". You need to sift through the "garbage" very carefully.

It's your choice (without feeling guilty) to send son where you wish and where you can afford, just don't fall into the trap that someone else can toot your son's horn, when he can do it himself!

PG,
Good post.

KCBaseball and others,

The post was entirely about agent/advisors. Never a word about parents budget. Guess I don't see the play on guilt regarding parents. Unless they have an advisor that fits the description.

KC, You mentioned the following quote.

quote:

Also keep in mind that the scouting community is very concerned with who wants to play and why some appear to hide from the best competition. Are they injured? Are they worried (fear) of performing poorly? Are they satisfied? Do they love competition?

These are legitimate questions regarding scouting concerns. The questions can all be answered yes or no! The post was about advisors causing these concerns for selfish reasons.

The following quote in the same post was not mentioned and possibly answers your concerns.

quote:

There are many excellent reasons for a player to decide not to attend certain events. These good reasons should never require an advisors advice! Everyone needs to consider if the advice is intended to help the player or to help the advisor by protecting the player from the competition. (not the players competition)

Scouts understand the many legitimate reasons. What they love the most though is the player who has a passion for the big stage! Perhaps the best way to describe it is… Those not in attendance could have a very good reason and might be extremely competitive… Those who are in attendance have answered the question regarding loving the competition.

The post was about advisors/agents more than about players or parents.

In addition; I can count on one hand the number of high school 1st rounders over the past 5 years who did not attend some, if not many, of the highest level events. For that matter, most all 1st round picks out of college also attended the big events when they were in high school. They were not all from wealthy families, but they all were bombarded by advisors who wanted to “help” them.

It always amazes me how many poverty level players seem to get to certain places. If those who think these events are not important and if you’re good enough they will find you… please read what Scouting Directors have to say and where they go. If you are being bombarded by advisors and you have never attended the big events consider your situation very rare because that is how most advisors find players.

My comments were directed to the high profile early round draft prospects and the ADVICE they sometimes receive. The most common question by scouts is always “WHY is so and so NOT HERE?” That is just the simple truth!

Not being able to afford it is always a legitimate reason. However, most high profile guys have high profile teams recruiting them who help with the expenses. No player will be black balled for not being somewhere, but if the player was listed on a roster and is considered for early draft consideration, it will create further investigation… You can bet on that!

There are very good reasons for not being somewhere (as you mention) and there are (in the scouting departments mind) warning signs for not being somewhere. This is not meant to confuse or make anyone feel guilty. Once a player is recognized as a early draft prospect, everything he does is under a microscope. It’s just the way it is, whether people care to agree or not. They don’t often just hand out a couple million dollars without doing any home work.

Sorry, if anyone read something into the post that wasn’t meant. Once again, there could be several good reasons a player does not attend any certain event. No parent should ever feel guilty about anything I have written. It was not intended for that purpose! The thing people seem to forget is that any ONE player does not mean much to the success of any one event. It means much more to that one player than it does to the event.

The post, as always, was meant to help players and parents understand the system... Not to cause guilt or debate. The only arguement with that post should come from someone in the "advisor" business. We are always on the side of the player in every case!

PGStaff, A very good post. I understand exactly where you are coming from. If parents were to completely understand the agenda of all parties involved, it would make more sense. I hate being a skeptic but being skeptical is probably best when dealing with scouts and advisors during the professional “ride” out of high school. I will also quickly point out there are MANY scouts and agents/advisors that do see things from the player’s perspective and are very trustworthy. (If bbscout recommended that my son sign a pro contract, I would hand my son the pen). To me a good rule of thumb is for the player and his parents to decide what’s in the player’s best interest prior to seeking the advice from an advisor. In other words the advisor should help you reach YOUR goals ... NOT .... attempt to change your goals to match the AGDVISOR'S goals.
Let’s talk $$$ and exposure. This is a very complex issue. It’s tough to put a price tag on the joy and pleasure you and your son get from his playing baseball where everything has fallen into place but you SHOULD put a price on it. You could spend a little money here and really expand your son’s options and make his baseball much more rewarding. I’ll be the first to admit that the money budget plays a role in the exposure game. But to me budgeting is spending wisely, not refusing to spend. I know you can blow a hundred thousand dollars toward exposure and get ten thousand dollars in athletic scholarship money. What you need to do is spend $3,000 to get $10,000 in ADDITIONAL money and still get that “priceless” feeling watching your son play.
PGStaff should be a little biased in his assessment of the showcase circuit but I don’t see it. Most know I have never spent the first dollar with PG or ever seen one of their events but if I had it to do all over again I would call PGStaff and explain I had “X” number of dollars and would he please advise me on how to spend it to improve my son’s chances of being seen.
Fungo

All duly observed..........

Fungo and TPM,

Thank you for the understanding. Sometimes it is difficult to get ones point across on here without sounding like an agenda is involved. Personally, my agenda is to help not to embarrass or hurt players/parents. I really don’t care if the player ever attends PG events or not. Never is it claimed to be mandatory.

Bottom line:

There are players of different abilities and character. Everyone understands players are not equal!

If players are different in talent and personality, why do people get so upset with lesser talented umpires? Why do we expect them all to be equal in talent?

Scouts are not equal. Why do people place so much importance on what any one scout has to say. They get their paycheck from a MLB organization. There job is about finding and signing talented payers at the right price. There are some scouts who have a reputation for misleading players and parents. They’re not all like Doug, but many are. Others are more suited to be agents and some end up doing just that. Some end up being very good agents.

Agents/advisors are not equal. There is the great, the good, the bad, and the very ugly.

Showcases are not equal, teams are not equal, tournaments are not equal, parents are not equal, coaches are not equal, instructors are not equal, nothing is equal in baseball!

The main reason I like this site so much is because the majority of people here are good baseball people who appreciate volunteered information and help. I really like to help when possible. What is said can be ignored as I sure don’t know everything, but it is all the absolute truth as I see things.

It is never about Perfect Game, I was a player, coach, scout and most importantly a parent long before PG came into existence. We have been poor and we have been not so poor.

Really don’t care to talk about PG on this site unless necessary. Wish people would understand that there are no hidden agendas whatsoever. Also there has never been any intent to discredit or slam any organization or individual coming from here. Even if I feel that organization or individual deserves it!

Most of us on here are parents who love and want to help our kids… That I can understand… That is what this is all about!

Not taking pot shots at PG. As a matter of fact have had an absolutely positive experience with them. But PG isn't the only one out there and some are not as scrupulous. We were bombarded by showcases, advisors and people wanting a piece of the action. The young man who started this thread appears to be at that stage and needs to do his homework. We spoke to every one we could get to answer. Agenda's are the name of the game and to PG's credit he does not use this space to forward any. Scouts have them, agents have them and players have them. Information is the key. The new people can feel like outsiders. Keep asking the questions and try to get your agenda out there and use the resources to forward it. So I apologize to PG if I came across as a basher, not my intent.

PG,
No reason need to defend yourself or pg. Your experience, knowledge, integrity, and honesty gives you the right post on these subjects. It just so happens that pg is part of that big picture.

Keep up the good work.

PG,
I could relate to your entire post and hope that others will take it in the spirit in which it was given.

Unless you have a HS son who looks to go very early in the draft (very early), much advice can be gotten from others who have experienced the same, coaches, friends who really care about your son, not someone who suddenly shows up because he saw your son's name on a ranking.
Scouts that are familiar with son can give good advice. Two such persons were scouts in our area who knew my son since middle school and watched sons development, I appreciated their advice and input more than others.

It's good that parents come here to ask questions and try to get answers and hear others experiences. Especially yours.

We are in the beginnings of possible draft again in 07. This time son is pretty much on his own establishing relationship he can trust, as the "advisor" will become his agent and it may or may not determine his future drastically.
In HS, we didn't feel he was mature enough to realize what was going on, we didn't always understand what was going on either.

The best advice I can give, is that one must sit sown early to establish a clear understanding of what your son wants to accomplish in his senior year. If he really wants to forego college and go pro, discuss what it might take for him to do that, how you will help him to reach that goal (more showcases,area code, tournamnets, etc.) Is he unsigned, what will it take to get seen, HS only, or places where you know coaches will be looking for players. This will help to establish goals for your spending. This will eliminate stress and you will be able to truly enjoy his last year in HS, and so will he.

I don't think anyone can call into question the impact that PG events have on getting to the "NexT Level". KC has no reason to feel guilty about not being able to afford to attend these events. I have several guys who attend their events and did very well off these events. A recent one Nick Weglarz. Put his name in if you want to see a 17yo witha pure swing and who can pound a ball. This guy was cut from a city team 2 years ago. He was not even average but he dug in and got drafted 94th overall last june. A big signing bonus and an Oklahoma scholrship.
This is an example of an okay ball player working hard,joining a prominant team and getting noticed. I am sure PG was good for him as it has been for 10 or so other guys I know.
But if you cannot afford this great exposure you atleast should join the best team you can afford. I knew my earning potential was going down hill so I started videoing my sons games. Especially the ones where he was facing Pros,ex pros and college guys. This is cheap and unbelievably effective. College has always been a priority, Going pro is a post college goal.
You don't have to spend a lot to get there but I do believe that PG,Area Codes etc can be a great asset to help you get there.

quote:

No reason need to defend yourself or pg. Your experience, knowledge, integrity, and honesty gives you the right post on these subjects. It just so happens that pg is part of that big picture.

Agreed. I read PG's posts all the time. The sincerity jumps from between the lines.

I wish PG would post more often. He is quite humble. Imho, he is one of the best writers we have and as usuall, such as in this thread his advice is impeccable.

Thank you to everyone. The kind words are appreciated. Not so kind words actually hurt!

ClevelandDad, If I'm one of the best writers we have... we are in trouble! My advice is simply a truthful opinion, but I doubt it is impeccable! Thanks though

Dad04, Sincere is a good word! When we tell the truth we never forget our story!

I really doubt people want to hear all my truthful opinions about baseball.

i was always told if you need an agent you'll know, because if you have 5-6 different agents calling you a day, you might want one. Thats when i realized i needed one. Also watch out too though, because you may come to find that the agent your with has a grudge between him and some of the scouts, thats why you must research everyone before picking your agent. But as for needing one.....im not so sure that for the draft its that necessary, its a fairly easy process if you know what your looking to get out of it. But as for ater the draft when you sign and are looking for endorsement and card deals and aquiring free equipment and such, thats when they help out immensely. Because the guys without agents generally pay for their own equipment.

PG,I could not agree with you more. I never believed an advisor who told me that he had my son's best interest at heart. That is just a smokescreen to feign sincereity. Kind of like a pick-up line. lol I trusted the guy who told me that he was an advocate of the pro system. He was honest. I did my homework on college vs. pro. I used the agent for advice on the pro aspect where I had no expertise. In the end, my son's agent/advisor is the best decision that my son made. He has been invaluable, honest and has one of the highest degrees of integrity of any man that I know. We have since become very good friends.

It is up to the parent to control the situation. The agent/advisor has a business and a responsibility to get the player signed. Not knocking them, just the way it is.

PG, as always, you are the best.