All-Star Results

CADad,

How did your team do? My son's team begins play next Thursday. Currently he is still playing with his regular season team in a post-season tournament.

Jason

Flipp,
They got schooled. I started our most reliable pitcher who throws about 60, has a good curveball and is rock steady mentally. He gave up 4 runs all on clean hits in the first inning. I then brought in our hardest thrower, who cruises low 60s but can hit 65. The hope was that he could shut them down and give us a chance to come back. He was throwing hard, his curveball was working well, he was throwing strikes and he got hammered giving up 3 runs in the second inning. We decided to save him and put in the little curveballer in the third. He pitched moderately well but a few seeing eye bouncers and a couple poor defensive plays resulted in 5 runs. With two outs and a runner on first I put in my son. 1 pitch, 1 (well hit) fly out to center.

They started a 65 mph lefty. We scratched out a run in the second. In the third we had one of my coach's sons who thinks he is the star of the team on second with no outs. I'd told the kids before the game I didn't want anyone trying to play hero (I was saying it for the benefit of the coach's kid more than anyone else). The ball popped out of the catcher's glove, dropping right in front of him and the kid took off for third. It wasn't close. The batter walked and then my son lined out deep to right. A runner on second would have advanced easily on the play. So instead of 1st and 3rd with 1 out and the cleanup hitter coming to the plate we had a runner on 1st with two outs due to a kid trying to play hero.

In the fourth they threw their ace who was throwing high 60s and hitting 70. He also had a good off speed pitch. Our #5 hitter walked and then the two kids we subbed in to meet minimum play, given that we were about to be mercied came up against him. It wasn't a fair matchup and neither got a bat on the ball. We ended up not getting a kid I'd put in the field in the bottom of the second, replacing the starting pitcher an at bat. I'll start that kid tonight in center and bat him second. We should win tonight's game pretty easily and be able to throw our pitchers an inning apiece so that we have everyone available tomorrow. You never know though.

I didn't really expect to win this game as you'll note I considered them to be the #2 seed and us to be the #4 or #5 seed. However, I thought we'd make a game of it and if we got a few breaks possibly win it. They did win the district last year with a lot of 11yo on the team so I guess it shouldn't have been a big surprise. I expect whoever wins our district to win the sectional tournament with ease and to have a good chance to reach the regional tournament if they don't get tripped up in the single elimination games at the end of the divisional tournament.

The boys won their first two All Star games over the week. My son pitched the second game which they play on July 4th. He gave up a HR to the lead off hitter. Ouch! But buckled down and didn't let in any more runs...actually never had a batter get past 1st base. Pitched a complete game and they won 7-1. He also managed to K the kid that hit the HR in his 3rd AB.

It was a fun weekend.

-S

We played a couple of loser's bracket games winning 13-3 and 7-1. My son was 3 for 6 in the two games with a pair of walks but struggled against the slow pitching we saw. He threw 3 shutout innings. We face another team we should beat tonight but it isn't a gimme. If we win tonight we'll face a strong team on Wednesday night.

The team from Conejo Valley made it to the winner's bracket finals and the team who beat us, Northside, will face them in that game. However, Northside used their ace while Conejo Valley faced a weak team and was able to throw all their pitchers an inning apiece.

The kids won another one. They struggled early but then scored 16 runs in the last 3 innings to win 17-2. They play again tonight and this will be a tough team that they'll have to play well against to beat.

Cruising on the site and tripped over this thread. Just one question, with all of your 12 year old pitchers throwing curve balls I was wondering if the pitching coaches out there have thought about teaching the changeup so that these same boys can have a healthy high school career. These games mean nothing in the big scheme of things so why put these boys at risk of damaging their arms and futures?

rosy:

In the overall scheme of things, there is not a baseball game that has been played that has meant anything, ever. But in the individual lives of most of these players, these games mean a lot, probably more than any other games many of them will ever play.

I am not advocating putting arms unnecessarily at risk, but for many of these kids, the curves will not induce injury and there won't be much if any pitching beyond high school, at best, anyway. The arm injuries, if they come, are likely to come a little later.

If the changeups work, that's what will be thrown. If not, it will be the curves. And after watching these tournaments (and travel ball as well) for more than 15 years now, I have concluded that that is a fact that will never change.

Of course, nearly every kid and every coach and every Dad will argue that the curve has been taught properly, but in most cases, even if it is true, the execution will be off at least a little.

So, in the end, it is a risk that every kid and every coach seems very, very willing to take. I hope it works out for all. At the same time, it seems a shame to save an arm needlessly for opportunities that may never occur.

Jemez, "A risk that every kid and every coach seems very willing to take". That is the very point. What 12 year old kid knows anything about the risks of improperly throwing a curve or the real risks to growth plates even if thrown correctly. Then there are the coaches who begin each season telling the boys, their parents and themselves that he will not put any player at risk and that things like pitches per game, days between starts, number of curves thrown will be carefully monitored. All well and good until some BIG tournament when all of the above goes out the window. My point is you cannot leave these decisions up to the boys and every parent must look out for the long term health of their sons and athletes and not the won-lost record which guides the coaches'decisions.

My son threw 4 innings last night and threw only fastballs and changeups. He maxes out at about 63 or 64 so the changeup was a key pitch. We relieved him with a little guy who threw mostly curves for 1 inning. Both were very successful. I won't let my son throw a curve. The parents of the other kid encourage it and he is effective so we let him throw it. By the way our kids were eliminated 2-1 with the other team scoring twice in the second inning after our center fielder dropped a routine fly ball. Their pitcher only threw a few curves but he was throwing mid to high 60s and spotting the ball about as well as a 12yo can.

CADad, It sounds like you're doing a great job with your son and congrats on his success. My son is 15 and just finished his freshmen year. He is playing with the varsity a couple of days a week and with a top 15U team Thursday-Sunday. We didn't let him throw a curve until really last summer. As a result, he has a nice changeup which is still a more effective pitch. Good luck with your team as the summer goes on.

Rosy:

you are missing my point. If the kid is clearly not going to play beyond hs, if that far, then what exactly are you saving the arm for?

Plus, as I also said, some kids throw curves with catastrophic results in the end and some learn how to throw it and then thrive later.

In the end, things are not going to change and for one huge reason: the curve ball works a whole lot better a whole lot more of the time than the change up.

Jemaz, A few final comments and I'm gone forever back to the Illinois Forum. Do you actually believe what you've written? If, in your opinion, a boy may not have a shot at playing college baseball than "what exactly are you saving the arm for?" How about having a healthy wing for the rest of adolescence and beyond. Isn't that in itself infinitely more important that winning a few games as a 12 yr. old? You've left me and a few others shaking our heads.

I've enjoyed the discussion and enjoy the rest of your summer.

Jemaz,
I'll agree that the curve ball works better more often than the change up. However that is only because it is easier to learn to throw an adequate curve than it is to throw an adequate change up.

A good change up is more effective than a good curve ball and contributes more to future success. It was kind of fun to listen to the other team's coaches telling the kids to stay back and wait for the "curve ball" and then to simply have my son bust the next one by them. No he wasn't throwing a curve. His change tumbles like a splitter and gets a nice sharp dip at the end.

rosy:

shake your head all you want. Most times an arm that is unable to throw a baseball with great velocity is still a very functional arm for all the things needed in day-to-day life.

If I'm a kid with average ability and I know that this is my time in the sun, then I'll throw curve balls until my arm falls off.

And, I bet, nearly every time there is no lasting injury anyway.

If I'm a stud (and by 12 you have a pretty good sense) then I probably won't throw the curve.

Have a swell time shaking your head.

jemaz,
I guess you have to take it on a case by case basis. The little curve baller that I threw for an inning every one of our 5 all star games is the smallest kid on the team and has very short parents. He's not likely to pitch even in HS.

We also have two taller kids with fairly tall parents who throw reasonably hard and could eventually do well as HS pitchers. Both of them are throwing curve balls. One hasn't had any problems. The other learned to rely on the curve and his fastball didn't develop much at all this year. My son projects to end up about 6' so he may not pitch after HS unless he eventually develops a very good breaking pitch to go along with the change and fastball but he's very effective for now without the curve and his fastball continues to develop.

Even if a kid doesn't pitch a strong arm is a plus in baseball.

CADad:

I believe that you and I are in full agreement. I enjoyed reading your perspective.

The boys won again last night 7-3 against a strong team with some big bats. They need to win 2 more to win district. Right now they are 1 of 2 teams that are undefeated in our district out of the original 16 teams. They play the other undefeated team on Saturday. Should be a good matchup. They are having a great time...and so are the parents.

KnucleCurve,
Good luck, keep us posted.
CADad

I disagree with throwing a CB at this age. (Just my opinion, though) Making a kid survive with a FB and CU will make a better pitcher out of him.

Also, determining what player will or will not play past HS is pure speculation and, if I were the parent, would not trust my son's future with you. It sounds like justification on your part.

CADad, to say your son probably will not pitch after HS since he "only projects to be 6'" is crazy.

You only have 1 throwing arm and you never know what will happen.

My son's team begins pool play tonight. They have a great shot to win districts but it won't be easy. They should advance past pool play and get into the double-elimination tournament. You never know what can happen though. Isn't baseball great?

Jason

redbird5,
Big difference between probably and possibly. Most kids probably won't pitch after HS. Fact. My son probably won't pitch after HS. Fact. My son will possibly pitch after HS. He loves the game and wants to pitch so we'll work on his arm strength and mechanics and when he's 14 if his body seems up to it we'll start him on the curve ball. At the same time we won't assume that he'll be a pitcher in or after HS and we'll keep working on the hitting and the fielding.

By the way, I spent an entire season fighting off a parent who wanted his 12yo kid to throw more curve balls. The kid who relied on his curve too much wasn't on my regular season team.

Also saying that a kid who is not likely to grow to be over 5'2" is unlikely to pitch in HS is a pretty reasonable claim.

If you just want an argument go find Lamber. In the loser's bracket of an all-star tournament with games on 3 consecutive days I never let a pitcher go more than 4 innings. The two pitchers who went that far didn't throw a single curve. Darn irresponsible of me. With 5 games over 8 days no pitcher threw more than 7 and 1/3 innings total. Darn irresponsible of me. I have a few parents unhappy that their kids didn't throw enough but no sore arms.

On the other hand I just watched our 11 yo team throw a kid 6 innings where the kid gave up 6 runs. He was also hit by a pitch on his pitching elbow during the fourth inning. He left 5 or 6 on base. That means he pitched to about 30 batters. Assuming between 4 and 5 pitches per batter he threw between 120 and 150 pitches.

cadad,

not looking for an argument at all.

FlippJ,
Best of luck, keep us posted.

My son finished the tournament throwing 7 and 1/3 innings. He gave up 2 runs, 0 or 1 earned. He had 10 or 11 Ks and walked one.

He was solid on defense making a nice dig in his one game at first base and made a nice catch going back and toward center while playing right field and still managing to keep the runner on second from advancing, but didn't have a real strong tournament at the plate. He finished 4 for 12 and walked 5 times so I guess his OBP was decent. He did score quite a few runs and knocked in 4 runs. He struck out looking a couple times on pitches that video showed weren't anywhere close after I complained about a poor call by the umpire (one of our kids was literally pushed off a base while trying to figure out what to do about a breakaway base that had broken away.) He also struck out looking in our final game on a pitch a couple inches inside and a bit low, however the umpire was calling the same for everyone that game.

My son's team won their first game of the District tournament last night 12-2 in 5 innings. The team they played wasn't very good. They struggled to hit our teams #4 pitcher. Our best player (also our ace pitcher) belted a 3-run HR in the bottom of the first inning making the score 4-0. They never looked back.

Today will be the toughest game of Pool Play. We play another team from our City and they are good. They are the 2-time defending State champions. They will get our ace pitcher to start and if he gets into trouble they'll see my son. Should be fun.

Jason

Congratulations and best of luck today Jason!!

R.

My son's team is now 2-0 in Pool play with 2 games to go after outlasting the other City team 8-4 in 9 innings. Our ace pitcher went 6 innings but with the score tied at 3 the ball was turned over to my son for innings 7-9. The game ended when he struck out the other teams power hitter.

I a nervous wreck that last at bat too. There were two guys on base and this kid, who hit 2 HR's in his teams first tournament game, almost took our teams ace pitcher deep earlier in the game.

Our next game is tomorrow afternoon. My son won't be pitching so it should be much more relaxing.

Jason

My son's team remained unbeaten in Pool play following an 8-7 (7 innings) victory. The best player on the team hit two homeruns, including a solo-walk off shot in the bottom of the 7th.

Their 4th and final game of Pool play is tomorrow evening. If they lose they could be done due to tie-breakers (several teams with 1 loss). Hopefully they don't lose.

My son's team won again 12-1 in 4 innings. He pitched. Worked himself out of a 1st inning bases loaded jam. They had runners on 2nd & 3rd with no outs. He struck out their #3 hitter then a single thru 3rd & SS loaded the bases. Used his knuckle curve to get the #5 hitter in a 1-2-3 Dbl play to get out the inning without any runs. Sweet!

They play for the district championship on Wed.

-S

My son's team completed their Pool play tonight with a 9-0 victory. They finished 4-0 in their pool and captured a #1 seed in the double-elimination tournament which begins on Wednesday.

Now the fun begins.

My son's team won their first game of the double-elimination round tonight. Their team won 12-0 in 4 innings.

Their next game will be the toughest game they've played the entire tournament. That game is tomorrow. A win and they are two wins from the District title. A loss and it's a LONG road back.

FlippJ

It's always nice to have a mercy rule game to save arms for later. Best of luck tomorrow!

Ross.

Very true Callaway! Thanks!

My son's on the 9-10YO team, who is playing a 7-game format w/ 2 pools of 8 teams each. I am one of the coaches and we have a great group of kids. We are 4-0 so far.

Unfortunately, our President misunderstood our DA's recommendation to carry 14 players as a mandate, so we are the only team we've seen so far w/ > 12 players. This makes meeting the 1 AB and 3 out MPR a bit tough (esp. when 10-run ruling someone!), but so far we've done a pretty good job of splitting the time. AAMOF, excluding the stats from our 3rd game (in which we faced an opponent whose team has been losing by 30-4 runs per game!), only 3 kids have played every inning, batting 11 times, 2 have batted 8-9, and the rest are nearly equal in ABs - between 5-7, w/ one player batting 4x.

My son has 2 hits, 1 walk and 2 fly ball outs in 5 times up.

Our league's 11-12YO team hasn't lost yet either. Tonight, they play for the District Championship vs. our city's arch-rival.

Our 11YO team has played 1 game and 10-run ruled their opponent.

All in all, we're off to a very fun start. Of course, the parents have about had it w/ baseball by now!

Warwick Continental LL

My son's team advanced to the semi-finals with a 6-4 win last night. That was the toughest team they've faced in the tournament and will more than likely see them again.

Down 3-0 the leadoff batter singled to start the 4th inning. The other team elected to intentionally walk the "stud" player on our team. That move backfired and our boys managed to take a 4-3 lead. The game was tied 4-4 in the bottom of the 5th when the "stud" came up again. This time they elected to pitch to him. Not a good decision. He hit his 7th HR of the District tournament over the left field fence. A back-breaker no doubt.

Their next game is on Saturday morning (9:00am). The winner of that game advances to the championship. My son will get the ball.

We lost last night and finished 2nd in our district. It was 9-7 and they shut us down with a 4-3 put out when we had the bases loaded in the bottom of the 6th. Tough loss.

My son's team suffered their first loss of the District tournament yesterday. They lost 9-4 dropping them into the losers bracket. My son pitched 4 innings giving up 7 runs. There were a number of errors so I'm not sure how many of those runs were earned. It was a tough blow to him and his teammates but they aren't dead yet.

They play today @ 12:00pm (noon) in an elimination game. The winner advances to the championship game where they'll face the team that beat my son's team yesterday. They'll need to beat that team twice.

Tough loss, FlippJ. Good luck today.

Our 9-10YO team won its 5th straight yesterday, 8-6 vs. a cross-town team. We're now 1 game ahead of 2 teams in our pool, w/ 2 games left - vs. the 2 teams 1 game behind us.

Our 11-12YO team lost their first game Friday night to a cross-town rival, 5-0. Flamethrower on the mound. They'll face another fast pitcher tonight vs. the same team - winner goes to States to represent our district.

Our 11YO team won its second game straight, 8-5 vs. yet another cross-town team (there are 4 leagues in our city).

Warwick Continental LL

Excitement turns to heartbreak...

My son's team was eliminated from the District tournament yesterday following an 8-5 loss in 7 innings. In the end the team just didn't get the big hits or make enough plays defensively to move on.

A loss that will sting for a short period for my son. He played well and I'm extremely proud of him and his team. They fought hard, but in the end it just wasn't meant to be.

Jason

FlippJ...too bad since is sounds like you had a good team.

As I mentioned earlier my sons team was eliminated on Thurs from district. However, his tournament team which is made up of kids from different leagues within this same district, played in a local 12 team tourney. And they just crushed every time they played and won the championship. It seemed to help ease some of the pain from being eliminated in district.

Now the the focus is on getting these boys ready for our trip to Cooperstown on 7/31.