Am I over paying?

That certainly is the amount we pay here in Texas for a showcase season.  That price would not include travel and uniforms - just your roster spot and training with a chance to earn your playing time. I will say some clubs / travel teams here do have a lesser fee for pitcher only kids.  Many programs here in Dallas are much more than $2000 for less than 10 exposure opportunities.  

As long as there is a track record, with this organization, of them having college coach connections and helping players get to colleges; I would say this is right in line with what you will pay in the Northeast. Honestly, some organizations charge more for less.

Just keep in mind there is no guarantee. What your son does will help to determine where he goes in the future. The team/coach should get him the exposure to broaden his choices.

That's about what we pay. for that fee we get training facility time, uni's and tourney entry time. That does not include any travel fees (hotel, gas, food, etc). 

 

Our  team plays mainly in exposure events. Either in tourneys in a local scout league where they pay the college coaches travel expenses to watch the games Or in the big exposure tourneys such as PG. 

I would be concerned with the number of kids. 12-14 seems a little light. Will they have enough pitching? 

Will the team be going to appropriate showcases for the talent on the team? 

 

That is pretty much our situation. My 2017 catcher joined an expansion team to a very prestigious showcase program. Almost 2k for summer and fall, and we've already paid over half of the cost, and the rest will be paid my March--well before he ever meets his team mates and coaches. The program manager had a nice discussion with me and said they will carry 20 players, 8 pitcher-only, and two catchers...my son being one of them. They will only play in showcase tournaments, including 1-2 PG events in summer and the same in fall. Of course, this will not include food, gas, lodging, and vacation time to get him to and from events. Best of luck to you and your son!

12-14 is definitely a little light unless everyone pitches and pitches good. Could make for some long weekends and a long week at PG. My sons team plays at all the places you mentioned and our fees are the same with Fall included. Down side is there are no workouts, training etc kids get it done on their own.

The price is reasonable....we paid a little less at 17U but didn't have any winter program as kids were spread out all over Ohio.  I've got the same feelings as others here about the roster.  12-14 just seems like a very small number considering you could play 6-7 (or more) if you go deep into a 4 day tourney. 

Newbie here but long time reader of forum; 

 

How many travel teams at this age can field 14 players where the majority can pitch really well?  

 

I would be more concerned that with more than 14 players my son wouldn't get a lot of playing time especially with that much money invested.  

 

During American Legion it is customary to carry 18 players which I thought was too many.  Invariably there were a few kids that just didn't get that much playing time. 

With the number and type of tourneys listed by the OP, as a pitchers dad I would be worried of over use. Also I have seen teams start with so few, and after the first few tourneys, pitchers start being brought in to get through a tourney. If this player is a two way player, and not a pitcher only, he may take more than just innings pitched.
At this level the team should carry several PO's to get deep into a tourney. Unless they expect to never make it out of pool play.

If you start out with too few pitchers in a showcase type tournament in which you may have to play a fair number of games in a relatively short time, you are cruisin' for bruisin'.  If you happen to make it out of pool play and into bracket play, you don't want guys pitching on fumes as you get deeper into brackets.  But that's what you get if you don't have enough pitching.  And if you're talking elite showcase tournaments, you want to avoid throwing just another arm out there at any point.  Cause if the guy is just another arm, he'll get hammered.  

 

Case in point we won our bracket at an elite tournament this summer.  Won our first game of bracket play.  We're up by three runs in our next game. But we were pretty much out  of pitching.  We brought in a guy hoping to get one inning out of him in bottom of 7th to close it out.  The only real alternative coach is saving to start the next game (which was looking within our reach at the time).  Unfortunately, the guy we brought in to mop up -- who had been lights out in earlier appearances (got glowing write ups in the scout blogs and all)  --  gives up two walks, a hbp, and a walk off granny in quick succession.  He was simply toast.   If we had won that game, we would have advanced to the quarter finals starting the next day. We were saving our one  relatively fresh arm for that first game the next day, but we would have had to win three more games to win the whole thing.  No way that was going to happen with the pitching we had left.   You had to play at least 8 games to win this thing.  And possibly 9 if you were one of the bottom qualifiers coming out of pool play.  That's a lot of baseball in like 5 days, 

The price is fine. The number of players is likely inadequate. By showcase ball more pitcher are pitchers only and position players are position only and emergency pitchers if at all. I would expect this team to have twelve position players and eight pitchers only.

When my son played on a 13U travel team there were 13 kids on the team and 11 could pitch.  4 of the pitchers were lights out while the next 4 would pretty good and the last 3 may or may not give you 2 innings.  

 

With my son now 16 I'm looking at getting him back on a travel team for the summer but really don't want him to be P.O. since he catches and plays first base.  

 

Is it difficult to find, say, 7 really good pitchers that can play other positions at ages 15 to 18?     

 

I know college will come soon enough and if my son is good enough I just want to delay the P.O. status as long as possible. 

This is awesome, thanks for all of the input!

This coach has been a head coach at 3 high schools and has some good results at these schools. He promises us that he has many college contacts. One of our tournaments at the U of ML is by special invite only. He states that he has helped placed about 60 kids into schools that were a good fit through his contacts. I really do believe that he has our kids best interest at heart here. 

 

Ok, so you all got me a little concerned with the size of the roster. As of right now there are 10 players, but he is looking for 4 more. He said we can play with 12 but wants 14, He also said it doesn't matter if you win or loose these games, you are out there for yourself and exposure to college scouts. I'm thinking the deeper the team goes the more exposure you get. He said very few scouts stay until the end of the tourney anyway. There are 5 pitchers now and he is seeking a couple of more. 

 

I have to decide by today if we are in, as today is his deadline to guarantee last year players a roster spot. Your replies have been a tremendous help to ease my mind that this is the right direction to go for this upcoming season. I just hope the 14 player cap is not a detriment to the success of this team.    

 

i have found the bolded to very true as the boys get older...except I love to win and it sure as heck makes things more fun!! at the end of the day it is about balance, you have to be on a good team to get the attention you want but winning isn't the end all.

Winning or losing a given game doesn't matter. Being competitive matters. Being in the game and winning some of them matters. Otherwise the college coaches will assume there's nothing to see here and not show up or leave early. A friend of my son spent a week at a showcase tournament and didn't see one college coach at their "back" field. 

Don't know how I feel about the comment your out there for yourself comment. Yes, it's a time to be seen, but imo you play games to win. The players need to gel and play as a team, not just care about themselves.

5 pitchers are not enough!  First they all need to get to Summer Ball injury free from HS  team. Then they have to stay healthy for travel. Look for kids who play a position well but can come in as a closer.

paying for coaches expenses is standard. They don't do it for free. 

Is This a successful team? U said they played together for 4 yrs and prev players are on team without any type of tryout. If the players had to try out are they ALL good enough to make it? 

Im guessing you'll  have your son play, and if it doesn't work out then he's still young enough to try out for a diff travel team next yr. he's at the age where he needs to decide what colleges interest him and get on their radar

good luck

 

There is a huge difference in how you put together a 13u travel team (or even a 16u travel team that is an extension of the HS season) and a showcase team. the goals are different. A good showcase team will have a number of guys who only pitch. Sure, they'd probably like to play positions as well, but if their real shot at college $$ is on the mound and they are not a legit prospect with the bat and in the field, they shouldn't be taking time away from position prospects. Now, if your goal is to improve your game, that's not showcase ball, that's tournament ball.

I have a 2016 so this was all last year.I am in midwest.Here the 1950 is @ mid range.Does that include winter training?how many days/time a week is there training?Is there a baseball weight lifting and or baseball work out program?60 kids he has helped move on.Is that something thats verifiable?I can PROMISE you this.You team is SHORT on pitching.Here where I live I would be somewhat very surprized to see scouts just coming to some of the mentioned sponsered events.If/when they do it will be to watch a specifac kid.Last year at ISU.we played in an tourney sponsered by one of the above mentioned.came to watch 2 specifac kids.Pitched back to back.When done all 3 scouts left.we played 4 more games never saw them or anyone obviuos again.When we were 10 runed last year in super 25 PG regional(ran out of pitching)I am all but sure there wasn't any scouts.If you feel your son is college material I think you should put 75% of your efforts into everything it takes to be ready to play a baseball game.weight lifting.baseball specifac weight/aerobics,bands,long toss.what ever.The 2 big pg events in the fall along with the 2 or so at end of summer along with a couple in GA. will have scouts just go.But even with those tourneys it can be hit or miss with the scouts depending on field locations during tourney.With how things went here(and continue) Is to have your guy ready.Being ready does not take place game day.2016 plays with a fairly new organization.There wasn't a track record when he first started.It was the off season/winter program that closed the deal.This year we have 10 pitchers.4-5 of which are PO only.The more games you win the better chance someone will show depending on tourney.Winning is close to a must.

Just for comparison's sake, we paid $3500 at that age. That included three months of tournaments, plus a facility, lots of pre season training, multiple coaching staff, uniforms, etc. The roster was around 12-14 and it was an issue. With injuries, etc, we were short in both pitching and catching to make it through a high game tournament. We usually had to pull kids up or down, and rally together with the organization to cover the pitching requirements. (The year before - 13U - we paid $1500 - so there is your range, coaching staff not as deep)

 

We pay $3000 now. That includes two month of tournaments (showcase type), plus all training, uniforms, etc. Interestingly it also includes all airfare and hotels on the road. It's a short season, but lots of year round support and training. Our coach doesn't take a salary. The uniforms are nice :-), the roster sits at about 18-20.

 

$2000 for ten high level tournaments would be considered a bargain where we live. Let me know if you have any other questions. Good luck.

As for the PO question, by junior and senior year our coach prefers PO. Not that there is never an exception, but 90% of pitchers on the highest level teams are PO by the time they play 18U.

 

Our coach says otherwise colleges don't take them seriously. Sometimes we'd see a pitcher/1st base (but rarely a catcher/pitcher).

 

There are two or three really high level teams I'm familiar with in our area. They all do the same. Pitchers are PO.

 

Could just be our area, take it as one person's experience, your mileage may vary.

So if you have, say, 5 kids at 17U that can throw upper 80's or even low 90's and play various positions will that not attract attention from colleges?  

 

Although my son is a sophomore in high school I'm still not sure whether he will be a catcher, pitcher, or 1st baseman if he decides and is good enough to play college ball.  I would hate for him to be allocated for one position so soon.  

 

 

 

My opinion?  You would have 3 PO's and a SS and RF that occasionally pitch. Probably the 2 with the best bats.

 

Again, it sort of depends what level of ball you are playing. In our area, at the highest level (where there is not really a 17U league) if you are pitching high 80's or low 90's with some control - and you can get guys out - you are a pitcher only. Every pitcher-only "can" play a position, and grew up playing lots of them. Lots of 'em can hit too. But by the time you play 18U - which is usually by junior year - you have focused in on what you think you have the best shot of playing in college. That first year of PO is definitely an adjustment, both mentally and physically. It can be boring, pitching every four or five days. And it can be weird to play infrequently when you are used to playing every inning of every game.

 

In your example, those 5 kids would be PO, and there would be 12 others on the team playing positions and hitting.

 

Your son will soon learn if he is good enough to catch in college. If not, he may play first. But only if he can hit for contact and for power against very good pitching. And run sub 7 seconds in the 60. (For a D1 school. D3's sometimes like guys that both hit and pitch. So it depends what you think is his best shot.)

$1950 includes indoor 2 x week... going to 3 x week in Feb... showcase season and guest spots on coaches regular 16u travel team during the summer.

 

After poking around, I am satisfied. We are committed to this team. The only reason I started this thread was to make sure his $ range was right. Both of my kids play travel, and a season with 40+ games and 4 or 5 tournaments with winter training was never more than $1000 This showcase only thing is new to me and was curious if a college showcase tourney costs more for a team to enter than a regular travel tournament. 

 

Coach has very good verifiable results. D1 D2 D3 placement and a couple MLB (recent) drafts. He coached these kids in HS, helped them to a good fitting college and a couple are signed.

I really do not mean to make him sound like a tool by his statement..."It doesn't matter if you win or lose these games, you are out there for yourselves" But I now understand what he means. He is not going to specifically make game decisions just to win. He wants his players in the spotlight and not his coaching skills to amaze. There will be situations where he isn't going to make the standard play call. Is he going to call for a batter to swing away instead of bunt? Probably. You guys know what I mean.

 

My son has a great shot at getting a nod or two. Power hitter 345 BA freshman year playing on the JV team.3 HR  He is 6'3 200 lb. He is on the track team (100 yd dash) and has great grades. 3.2 GPA right now. Believe me I am not bragging. It has been a long road to get to this point, and I want to make sure that we are doing the right thing with our money and time.

I know of only 1 PO on this team. Most of the players are multi positional. It is a solid team, but we have lost a couple of players due to the price tag associated with this showcase team. I am seriously concerned with the amount of pitchers though. After reading all of your input, this is going to be an issue. But at this age, not many kids want to spend most of their time on the bench to come out and throw 70 -80 pitches and be done for the tourney.And not to many parents are willing to invest in that either.

 

I really appreciate all of the comments on this. And I also really appreciate this great Website and community! Thank You!

good luck! encourage him to keep working on his grades (unless his test scores are off the charts?), 3.2 is not "great grades", sorry to be blunt and my best to you and him...

LOL....let me rephrase that....good grades! He is definitely not Ivy League material, but that is ok. At this time there aren't many distractions in his life...ie girl friends, parties and such. It is still early in his high school academics, so he has a bit of time for improvements.Takes his first stab at the SAT next month. He also isn't a stud. Just a solid player. He wants to be a policeman, yes, even with all of the crap the police are being put through recently. One of the top criminal justice schools in the US is a D3 school, and that is the one we are going to try and lean to. It also has a terrific baseball program to boot.

 Just a quick question for you Baseballlife...what is considered "great" grades then?

According to the NCAA... 2.3....take a knee.

  

Each .25 increment up the chain really opens up a lot more college options. Take a look at some college websites application sections where they list average GPA's and range of grades, you may be surprised at how high they are (I sure was!). Turns out there are a TON of kids with high GPA's, and I would consider above an unweighted 3.5 to be solid, above a 3.75 to be very good, and hitting a 4.0 to be stellar (obviously). 3.0 is good enough for a lot of state schools. Not sure below that, and most players we know under a 3.0 went JUCO.

 

As you'll hear on here repeatedly, grades are in inverse proportion to both test scores and athletic ability. So if grades are 3.0 to 3.5 or so, you may need good test scores or to be a stud to get into a good school. Every kid is a package deal, and they look at the whole person, so you rarely know for sure how the decisions are being made. I am only slightly ahead of you with a son who is a senior this year. So far he has applied to six schools and is 2 for 2 - the rest are pending. Leaning toward a great D3 that wants him to play baseball very badly, but we don't know if he'll get in or if we can afford it if he does. So it's not a done deal yet. Exciting ride for sure.

This whole college thing gets kind of daunting to say the least. I went to community college so this whole process has a learning curve. All that I had to do is knock on the door and I was welcomed with open arms and bank accounts..Lol. I have found a couple of parent timelines to help the process, but each are very different.

 Well, the process starts now and it looks like another long road ahead of us.Good luck to your son and thanks to all for their input!

BLC -

As I mentioned earlier grades are dependent on the school.  3.25 is a decent GPA, obviously it could be higher, but its still good enough to get in a lot of schools.  After going through the college application process with my older son I can tell you there will be schools he will get into and some he wont with that GPA.  Using my son as an example.  He had a 3.6, 24 ACT.  Michigan State was a stretch for him (he was accepted and attends there).  Yet he got into Kentucky without an issue.  Accepted to Iowa without a problem, was wait-listed to Indiana.  I would put all of these schools in the same "category".  Yet each one had different admissions standards and goals.  For example Kentucky wants a diverse population while Indiana strives for the best students.  

 

With a 3.25 I would say your son is "safe" at the "second tier" state schools.  In my area that schools like Eastern Illinois, Northern Illinois, Central Michigan, etc.  It might be a reach for the upper tier state schools but there are some out there that he could get into.  

 

In regards to baseball, as I said unless he is a stud player the schools won't make an admission exception because of playing baseball.  The first question we have been asked by any coaches we have talked do was, "what are your grades".

My son attends a magnet school for engineering. This is a high school that he had to apply to, and meet certain criteria to attend. Not only did he have to be in the top 10% in his middle school science and math classes, he also needed high test scores on our state mandated achievement tests. There was a whole list of academic achievements as well as personal goals section to be accepted.  There are a lot of very smart and gifted students in his school. He's definitely not one of the tops in his class, I think he would be somewhere in the upper middle. How important is class ranking to a college? Part of this process requires us to provide that info, and I am just wondering how a college looks at class rankings. Obviously the higher that you are ranked, the better. But how about for someone that attends a school like this but hovers in the middle?

I agree with the coach that the emphasis in showcasing is to be seen rather than winning. With 12-14 players, unless the team has several top prospects, you'll unlikely make it out of pool play. The significance of this is that as the number of teams is narrowed down and the strength of the teams increases, the more RC's you'll have at your games. Considering the time and money invested, it's frustrating to watch your son have the game of his life and not a single college coach is at the game. Unless you're fortunate enough to be playing on one of the established powerhouse teams, the above scenario is a common occurrence. If your team is not likely to make it out of pool play due to lack of pitching, the best you can hope for is to be matched against a strong team in pool play. You're unlikely to win but at least you'll have an opportunity to play in front of RC's, which is the whole point of showcasing.

This makes me scratch my head at the coach's plan.

 

Grades and test scores matter. Volunteer work, community service, club participation, etc., it all matters toward merit money. Throwing 95, ACT score of 30, anywhere you want to go. Throwing 86, ACT of 22, your options will be greatly decreased. It's a package deal.  Just my 2cts

Finally caught up with this thread.....

 

The price isn't outrageous however, I think you have to look at it from a value perspective.   Who is going to see your son, and how much is the coach helping to provide a network of recruiters and opportunities.  If your son is interested in D1/D2 schools (with schollys) then it makes sense to shell out that amount of coin for a travel team.  If he aspires for something else (D3) then I think looking at other options is a good idea as the recruiting timetable and process is somewhat different.  If his  goal is to play at the highest levels and you can fund something like this then do it with the understanding of why you are doing it..

 

I totally agree with baseballlife about the academics.  Remember there is more academic money out there than athletic money.  I recall a debate a few years on HSBBWeb about a Mom who could only afford either a national travel team or a tutor.  It all goes back to your goals, options and value.  I've seen some travel parents write a check without thinking about it and I've seen others stop to think about it.  I think you are wise to stop and think about the value you are getting.  JMO.

 

Good luck!