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My favorite is the four year old softball pitcher, taking pitching lessons since she was three so she'll be ready when she's old enough to play travel at eight years old.
If the kid doesn't burn out, she'll probably one of the best 8U pitchers just on training. However, I wouldn't be surprised if she's passed by a lot of other players by 10U and 12U as they catch up.
You can't buy talent for your kid. You can only cultivate innate talent.
If the kid doesn't burn out, she'll probably one of the best 8U pitchers just on training. However, I wouldn't be surprised if she's passed by a lot of other players by 10U and 12U as they catch up.
You can't buy talent for your kid. You can only cultivate innate talent.
I like that I didn't spend one red cent on youth baseball academies and my son started on the varsity and was one of the top hitters on the team.
Nothing beats natural ability. You can't buy it in a baseball academy but since peeps spend big bucks trying, it's a good racket
Nothing beats natural ability. You can't buy it in a baseball academy but since peeps spend big bucks trying, it's a good racket
I don't see anything wrong with getting professional instruction once approaching or in high school to improve as long as it's affordable and realistic. What's unrealistic is spending 100K to get 20K worth of college athletic ride.
I would think most people on this board fall into the group that is being pointed at. 
Wouldn't Tiger Woods fall into this category???
How about Russian talent that is dominating women's tennis? The families spend all their money getting their kids into the US training facilities beginning at the age of 5. i.e. Maria Sharapova.
I can't imagine specialized training at an early age is all bad. But, I do agree, the parent needs to keep an eye on reality.
How about Russian talent that is dominating women's tennis? The families spend all their money getting their kids into the US training facilities beginning at the age of 5. i.e. Maria Sharapova.
I can't imagine specialized training at an early age is all bad. But, I do agree, the parent needs to keep an eye on reality.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:
I don't see anything wrong with getting professional instruction once approaching or in high school to improve as long as it's affordable and realistic. What's unrealistic is spending 100K to get 20K worth of college athletic ride.
The discussion reminds me of the parents profiled on HBO Inside Sports, who mortgaged their house to send a son to The Pendleton School to help their son get a golf scholarship. The max # of golf rides is 4. They spent over $100K and the kid had no offers.
For every Tiger Woods I wonder how many parents are now spending $5,000 a year ($100 a week) on psychiatrists.quote:Originally posted by Brian Shanberg:
Wouldn't Tiger Woods fall into this category???
How about Russian talent that is dominating women's tennis? The families spend all their money getting their kids into the US training facilities beginning at the age of 5. i.e. Maria Sharapova.
I can't imagine specialized training at an early age is all bad. But, I do agree, the parent needs to keep an eye on reality.
Dr. Joel Fish of the Center for Sports Psychiatry said their biggest client base is kids who were pushed heavily and feel they failed their parents, whether they're still playing or quit. Given CSP consults with Team USA's, the Olympic team and pro sports franchises this is a one heck of a statement.
Fish wrote a book for the parents of young players called "101 Ways to be a Better Sports Parent." He said when his kids hit the early teen years he was becoming the parent he provides counseling about. It was a wake up call for him. His book isn't about blowing off the importance of competing to win. It's about how to approach it and discuss it with kids.
A friend looked into IMG for her tennis playing son. Her son was top ten ranked in the state as a high school freshman. The tennis part is the famous Nick Bolitieri tennis school. It was 50K a year before the extras. At that point she decided her son was not the next Federer and paying for college minus whatever ride he gets would be less expensive.quote:Originally posted by Dad04:quote:Originally posted by RJM:
I don't see anything wrong with getting professional instruction once approaching or in high school to improve as long as it's affordable and realistic. What's unrealistic is spending 100K to get 20K worth of college athletic ride.
The discussion reminds me of the parents profiled on HBO Inside Sports, who mortgaged their house to send a son to The Pendleton School to help their son get a golf scholarship. The max # of golf rides is 4. They spent over $100K and the kid had no offers.
There is a grocery store here that usually in the fall allows LL teams to collect money for travel expenses. Being thre done that serveral times, my husband and I always find some extra dollars to put in teh helmets. Last fall, wearing my son's former college colors a coach asked me if I knew anything aobut the baseball team. Upon further discussion, he did not realize that the 11.7 baseball scholarships were only partial for D1 baseball, fewer for D2 and none avaliable for D3.
I think that parents of very young players really do not realize this until their players reach HS age.
As far as sports academies, most (I say most) people that I know who have sent their players (any sport) have been more for potential pro opportunities over college opportunities.
I hope that parents of young players reading here will realize that it's more important for the fact that they love the game. That should always be the first consideration when participating. As the player grows and matures, their talent and desire will dictate whether they will achieve the next level (whatever that is at the players age). I have friends who spent a small fortune they didn't have on an individual competitive sport, their son winning state championships and a few on a national level very early. At 16 he told them no more. Kids burn out, get hurt, their desires change as they get older and can think for themselves.
We all tend to overspend on our children. We overspent on daughter's dance, but we knew she would never be a dancer at teh next level. Actually I think that she was a better dancer than son a baseball player, but she was different, not as focused, or determined and not academically inclined to get a scholarship. Wiht kids being 9 years apart, I realized that young children often have passions and there is an ebb and flow in their desires. So with that in mind, we watched our spending with baseball, and allowed other activities. Don't get me wrong, my husband was a dad with dreams of his son playing top D1 baseball, playing in Omaha, playing on the cape and becoming a professional player. I was the school comes first mom. Not until son was into his second year of HS did we realized that he had special gifts and then we began the push, and planned it all out, with great advice from really great people and spent very little compared to those parents of today.
I think that our economy will have a great impact on our children's sports. Those that can afford to spend will continue, while many will have to cut back less and less. Don't fret about it, don't get anxious by the stories you hear, your sons talent will determine his future, just plan and prepare for when the time is ready, which is during their HS years.
I think that parents of very young players really do not realize this until their players reach HS age.
As far as sports academies, most (I say most) people that I know who have sent their players (any sport) have been more for potential pro opportunities over college opportunities.
I hope that parents of young players reading here will realize that it's more important for the fact that they love the game. That should always be the first consideration when participating. As the player grows and matures, their talent and desire will dictate whether they will achieve the next level (whatever that is at the players age). I have friends who spent a small fortune they didn't have on an individual competitive sport, their son winning state championships and a few on a national level very early. At 16 he told them no more. Kids burn out, get hurt, their desires change as they get older and can think for themselves.
We all tend to overspend on our children. We overspent on daughter's dance, but we knew she would never be a dancer at teh next level. Actually I think that she was a better dancer than son a baseball player, but she was different, not as focused, or determined and not academically inclined to get a scholarship. Wiht kids being 9 years apart, I realized that young children often have passions and there is an ebb and flow in their desires. So with that in mind, we watched our spending with baseball, and allowed other activities. Don't get me wrong, my husband was a dad with dreams of his son playing top D1 baseball, playing in Omaha, playing on the cape and becoming a professional player. I was the school comes first mom. Not until son was into his second year of HS did we realized that he had special gifts and then we began the push, and planned it all out, with great advice from really great people and spent very little compared to those parents of today.
I think that our economy will have a great impact on our children's sports. Those that can afford to spend will continue, while many will have to cut back less and less. Don't fret about it, don't get anxious by the stories you hear, your sons talent will determine his future, just plan and prepare for when the time is ready, which is during their HS years.
If you have it, you might as well spend it. If you don't, then too bad for the kid unless he is blessed with the natural ability enough to make up for it. These things can make a significant difference, and I have seen certain kids as a result drafted far higher than would otherwise have been the case.
But, there are other things too. I am cutting a check today for $3,000 for a one-on-one SAT prep course. I hope it turns out to be money well spent, but I also know there are no guarantees.
But, there are other things too. I am cutting a check today for $3,000 for a one-on-one SAT prep course. I hope it turns out to be money well spent, but I also know there are no guarantees.
So much of todays youth sports seems to be about the money.
My youngest is a basketball player. AAU teams in our area are now asking $1000 a player to have them play in 4 tournaments in the spring. There is an organization here that has 6 teams at the same grade level with 11 players per team. Having coached for many years, I can tell you firsthand that there isn't much instruction going on. People who tell you "what a kid really needs is court time, or field time" are usually somehow financially benifiting from your kid playing.
My youngest no longer plays AAU. Promoters have told me "he really needs to play to get the same exposure as other players". BS. If the kid can play, he'll get found.
My youngest is a basketball player. AAU teams in our area are now asking $1000 a player to have them play in 4 tournaments in the spring. There is an organization here that has 6 teams at the same grade level with 11 players per team. Having coached for many years, I can tell you firsthand that there isn't much instruction going on. People who tell you "what a kid really needs is court time, or field time" are usually somehow financially benifiting from your kid playing.
My youngest no longer plays AAU. Promoters have told me "he really needs to play to get the same exposure as other players". BS. If the kid can play, he'll get found.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:A friend looked into IMG for her tennis playing son. Her son was top ten ranked in the state as a high school freshman. The tennis part is the famous Nick Bolitieri tennis school. It was 50K a year before the extras. At that point she decided her son was not the next Federer and paying for college minus whatever ride he gets would be less expensive.quote:Originally posted by Dad04:quote:Originally posted by RJM:
I don't see anything wrong with getting professional instruction once approaching or in high school to improve as long as it's affordable and realistic. What's unrealistic is spending 100K to get 20K worth of college athletic ride.
The discussion reminds me of the parents profiled on HBO Inside Sports, who mortgaged their house to send a son to The Pendleton School to help their son get a golf scholarship. The max # of golf rides is 4. They spent over $100K and the kid had no offers.
You can't get blood out of a turnip. $100,000 for tuition and "stuff" can buy alot of tennis lessons.
Here in San Antonio, there are a lot more "have-nots" than "haves" who can afford the fees for the area's top select team. Roughly 35 colleges of all levels come each summer to see the top team play, contrasted with 3-4 colleges for some "cheaper" teams with fairly equal talent that are unfortunately competing in sub-par tourneys with little visibility. It's sad to see talented players get short-changed because their parents don't have the money to pay for the team offering the most opportunity.
Infield08, I am pretty surprised by that. I would think a college would do better finding a diamond in the rough than being one of 37 going after the same kid. If it's truly fairly equal talent I think some marketing and networking is in order. Get on the local blogs and talk 'em up. Email coaches to make them aware of these players. Call up the local newspaper and have them run an article on some of the kids. All of this is free. Maybe the best thing these kids could do is discover the HSBBW and find out what they need to do to get to the next level. Money doesn't buy ability.
What if we do this stuff because it's just fun?
If I spend $800 for a travel team or $10,000 for a personal trainer, what's it to you?
Now, I happen to think the $10k is exhorbitant but that's mostly because I don't have $10k.
Along the same vein, people ask us where we go on summer vacation. They go to Disney, or the Dells, or Myrtle Beach.
We go to Omaha, Indianapolis and St. Louis for baseball tournaments. We hope to step up to Marietta and Jupiter soon!
If I spend $800 for a travel team or $10,000 for a personal trainer, what's it to you?
Now, I happen to think the $10k is exhorbitant but that's mostly because I don't have $10k.
Along the same vein, people ask us where we go on summer vacation. They go to Disney, or the Dells, or Myrtle Beach.
We go to Omaha, Indianapolis and St. Louis for baseball tournaments. We hope to step up to Marietta and Jupiter soon!
I think one factor WHY the more "expensive" teams and the more "expensive" showcases have the better talent.
Let's say my son is a baseball pitcher.
If he throws 60 miles an hour I will suggest he take up youth mixed martial arts (MMA) and buy him a white terry housecoat.
If he throws 70 miles an hour I may buy him a glove and let him play rec ball.
If he throws 75 miles and hour I may see if I can find him a local travel team to play on. Maybe he can catch a ride with a neighbor.
If he throws 80 I will take him to some local showcases and look around for a better team and buy a new set of tires for my truck (w/nitrogen for better gas mileage).
If he throws 85 I'll get on the internet and locate the best team around and check my back account to see how much money I can spend on promoting him. Cash in a few CDs.
If he throws 90 I'll just set back answer the phone and weigh the options and compare the different fees of the elite teams and probably sell my bass boat.
If he throws 95 mph I can put my money back into a CD and negotiate the best deal on his high profile teams and showcases. I may even become an "expert" on a baseball website
Fungo
Let's say my son is a baseball pitcher.
If he throws 60 miles an hour I will suggest he take up youth mixed martial arts (MMA) and buy him a white terry housecoat.
If he throws 70 miles an hour I may buy him a glove and let him play rec ball.
If he throws 75 miles and hour I may see if I can find him a local travel team to play on. Maybe he can catch a ride with a neighbor.
If he throws 80 I will take him to some local showcases and look around for a better team and buy a new set of tires for my truck (w/nitrogen for better gas mileage).
If he throws 85 I'll get on the internet and locate the best team around and check my back account to see how much money I can spend on promoting him. Cash in a few CDs.
If he throws 90 I'll just set back answer the phone and weigh the options and compare the different fees of the elite teams and probably sell my bass boat.
If he throws 95 mph I can put my money back into a CD and negotiate the best deal on his high profile teams and showcases. I may even become an "expert" on a baseball website
Fungo
Fungo,
quote:Originally posted by Fungo:
If he throws 90 I'll just set back answer the phone and weigh the options and compare the different fees of the elite teams and probably sell my bass boat.
Fungo
What kind of communist sells his bass boat?
quote:What kind of communist sells his bass boat?
No clue. But I'm game. What kind of a communist sells his bass boat?
quote:I don't see anything wrong with getting professional instruction once approaching or in high school to improve as long as it's affordable and realistic. Wha
Hits the nail on the head especially the realistic part. I have worked camps and I still give group lessons and private instruction at a baseball facility. I really enjoy it. I sometimes run into parents who are unrealistic or always on their kid about doing this or that. I try to be as diplomatic as possible. Basically in the politically correct way telling him or her to leave the kid alone. let him or her have fun. sometimes it is a delicate balance.
I know how hard it is. Sometimes you just want to push your kids, but they need to enjoy their youth. They have the rest of their lives to work. As my kids get older I am learning how to find that balance. Any suggestions.
I asked my kid a few years back, other than baseball, what would you like to do together? His reply was, fishing...so I bought a boat. Now we enjoy fishing together and we can do that the rest of our lives.
Hitman33,
Welcome to the HSBBW.
I am sure you have done some reading here, but IMO, Fungo's post is essentially a pretty realistic point of reference for what it's all about. Mine is 22, things have changed pretty much, more travel, more showcases, more camps, more tournies, early recruiting and commitments, NCAA rule changes, etc.
That's acceptable, we all realize that you do have to do more than just rely on HS baseball. What I don't buy into is the thinking that instead of helping a player develop to his own potential, parents feel the need to develop a player that is better than everyone else. No offense to anyone, but you will find this with people that have more dollars to spend than others. I have seen very wealthy people spend lots and lots on their players, talented too, nothing left out imagineable, yet the offers don't fly in or the draft doesn't happen. Then I have seen a player show up to one showcase as a senior and do well, scholarship that weekend to a top D1 program or another who never traveled much in HS, senior summer gets a small schollie and ends up one of the top pitchers in his state the following June.
I don't buy into the theory you have to spend a lot, you just have to spend it wisely.
And it's not just a baseball thing either.
JMO.
Welcome to the HSBBW.
I am sure you have done some reading here, but IMO, Fungo's post is essentially a pretty realistic point of reference for what it's all about. Mine is 22, things have changed pretty much, more travel, more showcases, more camps, more tournies, early recruiting and commitments, NCAA rule changes, etc.
That's acceptable, we all realize that you do have to do more than just rely on HS baseball. What I don't buy into is the thinking that instead of helping a player develop to his own potential, parents feel the need to develop a player that is better than everyone else. No offense to anyone, but you will find this with people that have more dollars to spend than others. I have seen very wealthy people spend lots and lots on their players, talented too, nothing left out imagineable, yet the offers don't fly in or the draft doesn't happen. Then I have seen a player show up to one showcase as a senior and do well, scholarship that weekend to a top D1 program or another who never traveled much in HS, senior summer gets a small schollie and ends up one of the top pitchers in his state the following June.
I don't buy into the theory you have to spend a lot, you just have to spend it wisely.
And it's not just a baseball thing either.
JMO.
quote:Originally posted by Fungo:quote:What kind of communist sells his bass boat?
No clue. But I'm game. What kind of a communist sells his bass boat?
The PINKO kind of course!
It is really amazing how the business of baseball (youth) has exploded over the last 10 years. This would not have happened if there was not a demand for it. Is the demand justified? It depends on who you are. I know some parents that have spent ridiculous amounts of $ on baseball training, camps lessons etc.. for their son and it has not made him any better. Was the money wasted? probably, but I don't think the parents care. They just wanted to give their kid the best chance at reaching his potential and buying lessons and clinics was the only way they knew how. They could also afford it.
In my family with 3 boys traveling, we have to be very careful how the money is spent. However, with our 17yr old this year has been the most expensive yet. This summer he has already spent 26 nights in hotels and the other expenses that go with it. After all of that travel and games he has yet to receive an offer. Was the money wasted. No way! If he doesn't get a sniff from a college coach after summer ball it was money well spent for reasons too numerous to mention here.
Now we will head to the fall season where he will be participating in camps, showcases and games. It will not be cheap. However, it is my opinion that going to these events gives him his best chance to to get exposure and possibly play college ball at a school he really likes. We will see what happens.
One benefit of 17u summer ball... My wife mentioned to me that when the kid is in town she never has to go get themail
In my family with 3 boys traveling, we have to be very careful how the money is spent. However, with our 17yr old this year has been the most expensive yet. This summer he has already spent 26 nights in hotels and the other expenses that go with it. After all of that travel and games he has yet to receive an offer. Was the money wasted. No way! If he doesn't get a sniff from a college coach after summer ball it was money well spent for reasons too numerous to mention here.
Now we will head to the fall season where he will be participating in camps, showcases and games. It will not be cheap. However, it is my opinion that going to these events gives him his best chance to to get exposure and possibly play college ball at a school he really likes. We will see what happens.
One benefit of 17u summer ball... My wife mentioned to me that when the kid is in town she never has to go get themail
Fungo ...
I didn't realize you were a commie. And if you are going to be one, please don't be the pinko kind 'cause it such a weak color choice. Be the BIG RED kind.
CPLZ ...
Surely you jest !!!
I didn't realize you were a commie. And if you are going to be one, please don't be the pinko kind 'cause it such a weak color choice. Be the BIG RED kind.
CPLZ ...
Surely you jest !!!
NOT ME!
Knowing CPLZ as I do I would think it has to do with the pink (or humpback) salmon fisherman.
Knowing CPLZ as I do I would think it has to do with the pink (or humpback) salmon fisherman.
quote:Originally posted by Fungo:quote:What kind of communist sells his bass boat?
No clue. But I'm game. What kind of a communist sells his bass boat?
I am a little surprised no one has called CPLZ out on this one yet although I think Fungo did by re-asking the question. Obviously, communists do not sell things since everything is "collectively" owned by the state. Since communists do not sell things, Fungo cannot be a communist by suggesting that someone might sell their boat. Just thought I might clarify that in case anyone was confused by the implication.
Hey---I sold my bass boat when my guys got into LL---cannot fish when they are playing and it was sitting there
What is with the "commie" stuff--it has nothing to do with anything if people have any smarts
What is with the "commie" stuff--it has nothing to do with anything if people have any smarts
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:quote:Originally posted by Fungo:quote:What kind of communist sells his bass boat?
No clue. But I'm game. What kind of a communist sells his bass boat?
I am a little surprised no one has called CPLZ out on this one yet although I think Fungo did by re-asking the question. Obviously, communists do not sell things since everything is "collectively" owned by the state. Since communists do not sell things, Fungo cannot be a communist by suggesting that someone might sell their boat. Just thought I might clarify that in case anyone was confused by the implication.
Ok I admit I was confused and still am and wondering (as some others)what prompted the comment. I was thinking perhaps a joke, as FBM suggested?
I certainly took it as only a joke.
Maybe if recent threads had not been so heated, there would not have been any second-guessing.
Maybe if recent threads had not been so heated, there would not have been any second-guessing.
quote:Originally posted by infidel_08:
I certainly took it as only a joke.
Maybe if recent threads had not been so heated, there would not have been any second-guessing.
Infidel ...
If I thought Fungo & CPZL were good friends who bantered back and forth, then I too would think it a jest. However, the fact that Fungo didn't give a pithy reply tells me that he and CPZL are not friends of the bantering kind.
As long as our son enjoys his lessons and learns from them we will continue to make the investment in our child. I have seen kids with NO desire to even be at a pitching or hitting lesson, being drug in week after week cause pop thinks he is a superstar. Now thats wasted money! However,We are lucky enough to have a pitching coach that is straight forward enough to tell a parent I can't make your kid be a better player if they have no talent or I won't take your money till your son WANTS to LEARN. It's nice to have a trainer that is more for player development than the money.