ESPN is reporting that Andy Petitte admits to using HGH two times. He says he used it to help his elbow heal not to enhance his performance. Ok Roger or Rodger or whoever you are. Whats up? Do you want to talk now?
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now i respect Petite for that. i think it shows what kind of person he is. even though he's a yankee. lol. i don't think we'll hear from roger, but i've been wrong before.
Shocking - Just shocking - LOL
quote:He says he used it to help his elbow heal not to enhance his performance.
A variant of the Paul Byrd story. Wonder which doctor/dentist he went to that diagnosed his elbow and recomended HGH?
Is this the current treatment prescribed by Doctor Andrews for example. Were the Yankees or Astros Doctors aware of this treatment? To me, if he was using an illicit substance to heal from an injury, that is the ultimate performance enhancer.
Kudos for Petite.
I think the only way to clean this up is to offer a grace period for people to cme forward without repercussions and then have a zero tolerance and increased testing and life time bans, striped of all honors from a point in the near future.
It is bad enough to have cheated but to lie in public makes it even worse.
I think the only way to clean this up is to offer a grace period for people to cme forward without repercussions and then have a zero tolerance and increased testing and life time bans, striped of all honors from a point in the near future.
It is bad enough to have cheated but to lie in public makes it even worse.
CD
What do you classify cortisone shots and pain killer shots before a game?
I see kids take Advil/Motrin before game so they won't feel pain in their shoulder/arm---what do you call this?
And what about amphetmines (greenies)? They don't even appear in the REPORT
What do you classify cortisone shots and pain killer shots before a game?
I see kids take Advil/Motrin before game so they won't feel pain in their shoulder/arm---what do you call this?
And what about amphetmines (greenies)? They don't even appear in the REPORT
I call these advil and motrin, "minor league" legal medications that have nothing to do with controlled substances such as steroids and human growth hormone.
talk about comparing apples to oranges. Come on.
Do you think motrin will help you put on 30lbs of muscle in a few months or make your shoe size grow 3 full sizes like barry bonds.
As far as Pettite, good for him for his admission. At least some of these folks want to deal with reality not fantasy and denial.
talk about comparing apples to oranges. Come on.
Do you think motrin will help you put on 30lbs of muscle in a few months or make your shoe size grow 3 full sizes like barry bonds.
As far as Pettite, good for him for his admission. At least some of these folks want to deal with reality not fantasy and denial.
Oh yes - Bravo for Andy.
Lets see - he cheated - and kept quiet about it for years - and then when he got caught - he admitted it.
Bravo!!!
Exceptional character - LOL
Lets see - he cheated - and kept quiet about it for years - and then when he got caught - he admitted it.
Bravo!!!
Exceptional character - LOL
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
CD
What do you classify cortisone shots and pain killer shots before a game?
I see kids take Advil/Motrin before game so they won't feel pain in their shoulder/arm---what do you call this?
And what about amphetmines (greenies)? They don't even appear in the REPORT
If cortisone (a steroid) was prescribed by the Yankee Doctors then I don't have a problem with it. I want to know who prescribed HGH for Pettite? My understanding is there are no doctors out there prescribing it to heal injuries.
Advil and Motrin use is left up to the individual in this country and there is no controversy. Don't see how cortisone prescribed legitimately or over the counter meds apply to any of this. Talking about legal versus illegal. If someday HGH becomes over the counter then my opinion will change.
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
If cortisone (a steroid) was prescribed by the Yankee Doctors then I don't have a problem with it. I want to know who prescribed HGH for Pettite? My understanding is there are no doctors out there prescribing it to heal injuries.
My guess is "Dr" Roger Clemens prescribed it. LOL
At least he admitted it rather then denying his use.
Remember when Giambi went through this a few years ago?
Everyone hated him, then he admits and apologizes for his actions, now everyone for the most part loves the guy again. It's still wrong what he did, but it's in the past, people have moved on.
Hopefully people will move on from this.
Yeah Pettite doesn't exactly have a solid character now, but at least he had the courage to admit he was wrong.
Hopefully more players follow his example.
Remember when Giambi went through this a few years ago?
Everyone hated him, then he admits and apologizes for his actions, now everyone for the most part loves the guy again. It's still wrong what he did, but it's in the past, people have moved on.
Hopefully people will move on from this.
Yeah Pettite doesn't exactly have a solid character now, but at least he had the courage to admit he was wrong.
Hopefully more players follow his example.
Doc - you make a good point - and so does the bobbler.
At least the guy is fessing up - but he is still on my sk ank list.
At least the guy is fessing up - but he is still on my sk ank list.
quote:Remember when Giambi went through this a few years ago?
Everyone hated him, then he admits and apologizes for his actions, now everyone for the most part loves the guy again. It's still wrong what he did, but it's in the past, people have moved on.
If he hadn't juiced you never would have heard of him, unless you followed minor league baseball.
Doc I feel the same. To me maybe an appolgy means that he cares a little more about the fans than say some one like Clemens and others who continue to lie.
I would have liked it better if the excusses were left out but at least it is an appology to the BB fans.
I would have liked it better if the excusses were left out but at least it is an appology to the BB fans.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
CD
What do you classify cortisone shots and pain killer shots before a game?
I see kids take Advil/Motrin before game so they won't feel pain in their shoulder/arm---what do you call this?
And what about amphetmines (greenies)? They don't even appear in the REPORT
I see you're still trotting that nonsense out about cortisone or Motrin, even after being told repeatedly for two or three years that you're wrong.
Once again, for those that care to listen..Cortisone, Motrin, or pain shots are not performance enhancers. They only reduce inflammation, or mask an injury.
No, amphetamines weren't listed, because the Mitchell Commission was charged with finding out information on steroid/hormone/HGH use.
[QUOTE]Posted December 15, 2007 06:00 PM Hide Post
trhit
What do you classify cortisone shots and pain killer shots before a game?
I see kids take Advil/Motrin before game so they won't feel pain in their shoulder/arm---what do you call this?
And what about amphetmines (greenies)? They don't even appear in the REPORT
Trhit what are you talking about. For some reason you are looking for an excuse to defend this situation.
Everyone in Baseball knew about this problem and looked the other way until Canseco came forward and now someone has to pay. And it won't be the owners.
Does anyone really believe that the legends of Clemens and Bonds will not live forever in baseball history as will Pete Rose, Ty Cobb and the Babe and the stories will grow and debate will forever be argued. But for the sake of the game we must fix the problem and move on. We owe that to the future generations and we owe it to the heroes of yesterday and we owe it to baseball
trhit
What do you classify cortisone shots and pain killer shots before a game?
I see kids take Advil/Motrin before game so they won't feel pain in their shoulder/arm---what do you call this?
And what about amphetmines (greenies)? They don't even appear in the REPORT
Trhit what are you talking about. For some reason you are looking for an excuse to defend this situation.
Everyone in Baseball knew about this problem and looked the other way until Canseco came forward and now someone has to pay. And it won't be the owners.
Does anyone really believe that the legends of Clemens and Bonds will not live forever in baseball history as will Pete Rose, Ty Cobb and the Babe and the stories will grow and debate will forever be argued. But for the sake of the game we must fix the problem and move on. We owe that to the future generations and we owe it to the heroes of yesterday and we owe it to baseball
Hey 2seamer I just don't get where TR is coming from.
Huh???quote:If he (Giambi) hadn't juiced you never would have heard of him, unless you followed minor league baseball.
1999 - 8th in MVP vote
2000 - MVP
2001 - 2nd in MVP vote
2002 - 5th in MVP vote
im confused....why is this so crazy if it wasnt banned when he took it?
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
CD
What do you classify cortisone shots and pain killer shots before a game?
I see kids take Advil/Motrin before game so they won't feel pain in their shoulder/arm---what do you call this?
And what about amphetmines (greenies)? They don't even appear in the REPORT
Jeez! How many people do you know go to the dentist to get a prescription for cortisone and buy it over the Internet with a credit card?
Vanna, somebody really needs to buy
a clue though.
To you naysayers---the more you ridicule me the more you show you know nothing about the situation---Ask Bill Walton about how he won his suit against the Portland Trailblazer team for them shooting him up with painkillers when he had a broken foot---the shots allowed him to play
You can all laugh if you so desire but anything that is taken to mask pain is a performance enhancer in my book---without it the player cannot perform as he should---
JIMI---stop disgracing the great name of Hendrix by being the fool that you are--- and you are not located in heaven either
You can all laugh if you so desire but anything that is taken to mask pain is a performance enhancer in my book---without it the player cannot perform as he should---
JIMI---stop disgracing the great name of Hendrix by being the fool that you are--- and you are not located in heaven either
quote:Originally posted by RJM:Huh???quote:If he (Giambi) hadn't juiced you never would have heard of him, unless you followed minor league baseball.
1999 - 8th in MVP vote
2000 - MVP
2001 - 2nd in MVP vote
2002 - 5th in MVP vote
Was he clean then? No. He was dirty. He admitted to it in January 2003 in grand jury testimony. Take drugs. Get paid. That's the program.
Robbing a bank is not spelled out as something that is banned in the players contract either but I believe it is against the law and can get you thrown in jail.
Obtaining steroids and HGH outside a doctors supervision is against the law and that supersedes what is spelled out in the players contract as well.
As far as Petitte goes, I for one do not believe he used it for two days a quit - call me skeptical if you wish.
Obtaining steroids and HGH outside a doctors supervision is against the law and that supersedes what is spelled out in the players contract as well.
As far as Petitte goes, I for one do not believe he used it for two days a quit - call me skeptical if you wish.
quote:As far as Petitte goes, I for one do not believe he used it for two days a quit - call me skeptical if you wish.
Poor Andy and his luck... The only two times he ever juiced were witnessed. Very unfortunate.
Clemens really needs to man up here and admit what he did and apologize with sincere contriteness. To NOT do this he is simply burying his name and his family for years to come.
I think this country is in large part a forgiving country when any of us fall down and/or fail...ONLY....if we admit our wrong doings and seek forgiveness.
We all know what happens when they don't do what is right. Ask Vick in C block. I'm sure he'll tell you he wish he could've gone back and admitted dogfighting.
I remember back in I think it was 1982 I got little ole Mark McGuire to autograph a ball right after the Olympics. As the years rolled along it amused me at how he, um, pumped up like he did. As a naive fan, I just thought MLB had some kind of workout programs for these guys....boy...do I have egg on my face. Gotta give him credit though. At least he was smart enough to get out before the hammer dropped. Mark, can you say bye-bye HOF?
I think this country is in large part a forgiving country when any of us fall down and/or fail...ONLY....if we admit our wrong doings and seek forgiveness.
We all know what happens when they don't do what is right. Ask Vick in C block. I'm sure he'll tell you he wish he could've gone back and admitted dogfighting.
I remember back in I think it was 1982 I got little ole Mark McGuire to autograph a ball right after the Olympics. As the years rolled along it amused me at how he, um, pumped up like he did. As a naive fan, I just thought MLB had some kind of workout programs for these guys....boy...do I have egg on my face. Gotta give him credit though. At least he was smart enough to get out before the hammer dropped. Mark, can you say bye-bye HOF?
Strange as it seems, I can actually see how that might be possible.
After all, his trainer was the witness and the supplier and the informer. The trainer did say "twice", under oath, didn't he? or maybe he was not telling the whole truth after all. It does make some sense that if Pettitte did it more than that he would have used the same trainer/supplier. Doesn't it? Surely one or both is hiding something from us, if it's not true!
After all, his trainer was the witness and the supplier and the informer. The trainer did say "twice", under oath, didn't he? or maybe he was not telling the whole truth after all. It does make some sense that if Pettitte did it more than that he would have used the same trainer/supplier. Doesn't it? Surely one or both is hiding something from us, if it's not true!
quote:I remember back in I think it was 1982 I got little ole Mark McGuire to autograph a ball right after the Olympics.
YoungGunDad,
You might want to take a closer look at that autograph.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Hey 2seamer I just don't get where TR is coming from.
He doesn't, either.
quote:Originally posted by paul5150:
im confused....why is this so crazy if it wasnt banned when he took it?
Since it appears that your question got lost in the discussion here's the answer paul15150:
It wasn't banned by MLB, but it still was an illegal substance without a prescription by the laws of the United States of America. He still cheated.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:quote:I remember back in I think it was 1982 I got little ole Mark McGuire to autograph a ball right after the Olympics.
YoungGunDad,
You might want to take a closer look at that autograph.
That's one of the things I hate about getting old...the mind goes first among other things!!!
He played in the 1984 Olympics. I also still have his 1985 Topps Rookie card with him in his Olympic ball uniform. The card is only worth about $8 now. It SHOULD be worth much more......Now I feel like a victim....I've been robbed! lol
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
To you naysayers---the more you ridicule me the more you show you know nothing about the situation---Ask Bill Walton about how he won his suit against the Portland Trailblazer team for them shooting him up with painkillers when he had a broken foot---the shots allowed him to play
You can all laugh if you so desire but anything that is taken to mask pain is a performance enhancer in my book---without it the player cannot perform as he should---
The painkillers didn't enhance his performance...they simply masked some of the pain. They didn't help him play better than he normally would, they only numbed his foot enough that he was able to hobble around and play.
Andy's confession gives McNamee alot of credibility.
Roger had to grit his teeth when he heard about Andy's confession.
Roger has to double back with his lawyers and PR folks - and plan the next round of BS.
This will be interesting.
Let us not forget - that 2 days ago - Roger denied "vehemently" - through his lawyers - that he has never taken PED's.
Let us not forget that very recent statement from Roger.
LOL
Roger had to grit his teeth when he heard about Andy's confession.
Roger has to double back with his lawyers and PR folks - and plan the next round of BS.
This will be interesting.
Let us not forget - that 2 days ago - Roger denied "vehemently" - through his lawyers - that he has never taken PED's.
Let us not forget that very recent statement from Roger.
LOL
ITS
The Daily News today recalled how they interviewed McNamee some months back and he told a totally opposite story-- he was also involved in a female assulat charge while with the Yankees which cost him his job with them as well as his teaching position at St John's University
Truly an interesting character--me thinks we may never know the real truth
The Daily News today recalled how they interviewed McNamee some months back and he told a totally opposite story-- he was also involved in a female assulat charge while with the Yankees which cost him his job with them as well as his teaching position at St John's University
Truly an interesting character--me thinks we may never know the real truth
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
ITS
The Daily News today recalled how they interviewed McNamee some months back and he told a totally opposite story-- he was also involved in a female assulat charge while with the Yankees which cost him his job with them as well as his teaching position at St John's University
Truly an interesting character--me thinks we may never know the real truth
Regardless of McNamee's character, Andy gave a confession didn't he?
TPM
Relax a bit---your Dolphins even won today !
The point I am making is with regard to McNamee and his character---just because Andy P confessed does not mean the others that McNamee implicated are necessarily quilty
Relax a bit---your Dolphins even won today !
The point I am making is with regard to McNamee and his character---just because Andy P confessed does not mean the others that McNamee implicated are necessarily quilty
TR - with each confession that vaildates McNamee - the rest of them sink a little deeper into the mud.
Andy validated McNamee - tough break for Roger IMO.
Andy validated McNamee - tough break for Roger IMO.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
TPM
Relax a bit---your Dolphins even won today !
The point I am making is with regard to McNamee and his character---just because Andy P confessed does not mean the others that McNamee implicated are necessarily quilty
TR,
The Dolphins have nothing to do with this, why did you bring that up?
iitg is correct, with each confession, they all sink a bit deeper.
You seem to be bent on finding excuses to shoot the messenger.
Let's do it the TR way, let's wait for RC himself to speak up and how long it takes. He has to say something eventually, not saying anything is an admission of guilt.
I don't think it's going to be what you want to hear.
TPM
How do you even come close to knowing what I want to or expect to hear ?
Aren't you a Dolphins fan? If so you should be in a better mood.
How do you even come close to knowing what I want to or expect to hear ?
Aren't you a Dolphins fan? If so you should be in a better mood.
What makes you think I am in a bad mood?
Why would you say that?
Why would you say that?
Anyone have a link or something that states in 2002 it was illegal to obtain HGH without a doctors prescription?
The reason I ask is I'm in a debate over if it was illegal according to the U.S.A./FDA.
Thanks!
The reason I ask is I'm in a debate over if it was illegal according to the U.S.A./FDA.
Thanks!