Another 4 mph maybe?

My son was 5'7, 145 his sophomore year in HS....throwing 80-81....by the summer after his junior year he was 5'10, maybe 155....throwing 86-87.  By the end of his senior year he was consistently 88-90 at 6', 170.   He basically did long toss....ALOT....no weighted balls, really no lifting at all and didn't work out with anyone other than a couple of his HS buddies....just long toss 3 days a week then pitch a couple days depending game/practice schedules.   He still doesn't really use his legs and has been up to 92 this spring.  I'd love to have him really try to get his lower half into it and see what would happen, but at this point, velocity and control are good so nobody is messing with it lol

mdschert posted:

Son is a 2018 RHP and having great success with this HS season on the mound using exceptional command.  Last game he got the win against a talented team with a major D1 commit that throws 90 plus.  The concern is velocity, last summer he threw 83 mph at PG events.  He is built like a tank and takes strength training very seriously and can squat over 365 lbs.  He wants to be a PO at a college but velocity will be an issue.  He does not really use his legs to push off the mound.  Can anyone recommend a camp or program that will emphasize legs to get another 4 or 5 mph?

Unfortunately , pure strength does not always equate to velo.  The speed of his delivery , his arm action, how clean the arm works  and fixing mechanics can have more impact on velo.  Maybe he could use his legs to get more velo or maybe it's another issue.  With his work ethic I would get a true pitching instructor to give you an eval and some pitch specific drills and exercises . Can you load video?   Here's a start 

https://www.drivelinebaseball.com/athletes/

BTW all my sons did a lot of long toss.... 

Buckeye 2015 posted:

My son was 5'7, 145 his sophomore year in HS....throwing 80-81....by the summer after his junior year he was 5'10, maybe 155....throwing 86-87.  By the end of his senior year he was consistently 88-90 at 6', 170.   He basically did long toss....ALOT....no weighted balls, really no lifting at all and didn't work out with anyone other than a couple of his HS buddies....just long toss 3 days a week then pitch a couple days depending game/practice schedules.   He still doesn't really use his legs and has been up to 92 this spring.  I'd love to have him really try to get his lower half into it and see what would happen, but at this point, velocity and control are good so nobody is messing with it lol

In fairness though buckeye if your kid was 5'7" 145 and throwing 80+ he is a natural.  Clearly a top notch athlete who needed nothing but to grow.  I sympathize with MD as I have one of my own in the same situation.  At what point do we just say it wasn't meant to be?  I guess when all other alternatives are exhausted!  MD, we are going to look at the weighted ball stuff.  And we are also going to up the core fitness, yoga and work with bands.  In short we will try anything and everything.  Time to start throwing stuff against the wall and seeing if it sticks!  I wish you luck.  

Driveline in Seattle 

FL, TX, and AZ Baseball Ranches

These all have Summer and other programs for velocity improvement, command, etc. 

MDSCHERT - Was wondering about height/weight and flexibility.  We (parents) have been trying to get our 2017 to put on some weight for awhile now and his standard reply is that he does not want to bulk up.  I attribute his velocity to reasonable strength in all aspects (legs, core, arm) and the ability and flexibility to smoothly sequence his motion.  An analogy I like to use is a bull whip (or a beach towel) where the ability to get it to crack has less to do with strength and more to do with the sequence of motion.  I'm hoping 2017 gets introduced to yoga as I have heard it it great for flexibility as well as gaining additional awareness of one's body in space.  I do think some of the slow motion video training is helpful in looking at how the various parts are working together and help identify any issues in the motion's sequence.  Let us know if this has already been done.

Branson Baseball posted:

Driveline in Seattle 

FL, TX, and AZ Baseball Ranches

These all have Summer and other programs for velocity improvement, command, etc. 

+1

What may be underrated in velo development is intent. Kyle Boddy on intent:

https://twitter.com/drivelineb...s/802238942330294272

www.drivelinebaseball.com/2013...ole-intent-pitching/

2017LHPscrewball posted:

MDSCHERT - Was wondering about height/weight and flexibility.  We (parents) have been trying to get our 2017 to put on some weight for awhile now and his standard reply is that he does not want to bulk up.  I attribute his velocity to reasonable strength in all aspects (legs, core, arm) and the ability and flexibility to smoothly sequence his motion.  An analogy I like to use is a bull whip (or a beach towel) where the ability to get it to crack has less to do with strength and more to do with the sequence of motion.  I'm hoping 2017 gets introduced to yoga as I have heard it it great for flexibility as well as gaining additional awareness of one's body in space.  I do think some of the slow motion video training is helpful in looking at how the various parts are working together and help identify any issues in the motion's sequence.  Let us know if this has already been done.

6' 210 lbs, he can't wear regular pants his thighs rips them apart.  Scored high on a flexibility test by strength training coach.   He is not using his leg strength asset.  I will never forget Roger Clemens coming back from retirement and his concern was if his legs would hold up, I would think his arm and shoulder but no.

+1 on Long Toss

Disclaimer: Not a PC, not a pitcher, and not even the father of a pitcher anymore.

IMO, you don't necessarily need a PC who teaches "push off the mound", but you do need someone who understands big bodied pitchers. My kid had a similar build and pitched before developing an elbow problem. He had/has huge quads and could squat a ton, but he could not comfortably hold his body weight in a lunge position. For many big guys, I think that inhibits them from getting all that mass moving down the mound. They tend to want to get the landing foot down early because they're stronger with the legs straighter.

Watch Bartolo Colon videos. He doesn't really drive off of the mound, but his drive leg can comfortably hold his body weight in the air while he gets all that mass accelerating toward home. And he keeps all that mass moving longer by bending his landing leg to about 110 degrees, which allows him to plant it later. 

I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and suggest that your son probably needs a PC who can combine specific lower body and core strength training with matching mechanical training to get the most out of him. Please let us know what you end up doing.

I would also recommend a good pitching coach.  My son's coach has had him working on his stride length this offseason and he went from an 84 at a camp in mid January to 88 2 weeks later.  Now, the camp 2 weeks later was at his dream school so we could tell that he was pushing himself.  But 3 weeks after that he put up 88 again at a PBR showcase.  The biggest change was lengthening his stride.  And I think perhaps doing that gets him to concentrate a little more on his lower half.  But as stated above, a good pitching coach should be able to look at your son and find the ways to use what he has to bring more power. 

LivingtheDream posted:

I would also recommend a good pitching coach.  My son's coach has had him working on his stride length this offseason and he went from an 84 at a camp in mid January to 88 2 weeks later.  Now, the camp 2 weeks later was at his dream school so we could tell that he was pushing himself.  But 3 weeks after that he put up 88 again at a PBR showcase.  The biggest change was lengthening his stride.  And I think perhaps doing that gets him to concentrate a little more on his lower half.  But as stated above, a good pitching coach should be able to look at your son and find the ways to use what he has to bring more power. 

What increasing stride length will often do is correct mechanics where the hips don't get around enough to get maximum hip/shoulder separation at foot strike. Th OP shouldn't assume his son has a lower body deficiency automatically. Take video and see where his hips are and where his shoulders are at the moment the front foot stabilizes with the ground. If he has prematurely entered into external shoulder rotation before landing, the problem is with the upper body. If the shoulder rotation is fine, but the hips are too closed at landing, then look at lower body adjustments. Often an increase in stride length can give the hips more time to separate from the shoulders.

roothog66 posted:

LivingtheDream posted:

I would also recommend a good pitching coach.  My son's coach has had him working on his stride length this offseason and he went from an 84 at a camp in mid January to 88 2 weeks later.  Now, the camp 2 weeks later was at his dream school so we could tell that he was pushing himself.  But 3 weeks after that he put up 88 again at a PBR showcase.  The biggest change was lengthening his stride.  And I think perhaps doing that gets him to concentrate a little more on his lower half.  But as stated above, a good pitching coach should be able to look at your son and find the ways to use what he has to bring more power. 

What increasing stride length will often do is correct mechanics where the hips don't get around enough to get maximum hip/shoulder separation at foot strike. Th OP shouldn't assume his son has a lower body deficiency automatically. Take video and see where his hips are and where his shoulders are at the moment the front foot stabilizes with the ground. If he has prematurely entered into external shoulder rotation before landing, the problem is with the upper body. If the shoulder rotation is fine, but the hips are too closed at landing, then look at lower body adjustments. Often an increase in stride length can give the hips more time to separate from the shoulders.

I'm sorry.  I didn't mean to imply that he should change his stride length.  Just an example of something that a good pitching coach can notice he should tweak to improve performance.

Getting in front of a good pitching coach is #1, but if I had to guess at it blindly, I'd guess that the pitching coach would have him experiment with increasing stride length and then help work out any kinks that result and see what the results are.  I could be wrong on my stride guess, but I'm confident that getting in front of a good pitching coach is the correct call.

mdschert posted:

Son is a 2018 RHP and having great success with this HS season on the mound using exceptional command.  Last game he got the win against a talented team with a major D1 commit that throws 90 plus.  The concern is velocity, last summer he threw 83 mph at PG events.  He is built like a tank and takes strength training very seriously and can squat over 365 lbs.  He wants to be a PO at a college but velocity will be an issue.  He does not really use his legs to push off the mound.  Can anyone recommend a camp or program that will emphasize legs to get another 4 or 5 mph?

Being rooted in the west coast, I just have no idea where on the east coast you might go.  But I'm sure there are some great pitching coaches you can find if you ask around.

Like as been mentioned, leg strength isn't really the key for that additional 4-5 mph.  The leg strength is great for endurance.  Typically, what I've observed in many HS pitchers is not they they're not strong enough in the lower or upper body or both, but where they tend to get more improvement in MPH is when they can take long balanced strides and have have good flexibility.  The flexibility is where pitchers get that "separation" that tends to generate high velocity pitching.  And often, this is where many HS pitchers fail.  So, I thought I'd toss this out here for some food for thought, FWIW, as you look for a good pitching coach.  If a coach is simply emphasizing strength and working out for it, you very well may be disappointed in the results.

Good luck and am wishing the very best for your son.

Driveline is a good program for that.  However if he is really super strong and throwing slower than Velo indicates I would also look into mechanics and flexibility. Being strong is a good start but if you lose range of motion it can limit you.

Find a good PC. 

I don't wish to get into a philosophical discussion on where legs come into the equation, but the mantra from our PC is "you throw with your arm, that's where the speed comes from" plus INTENT to throw velo. My S had to break the desire to locate every pitch and develop the intent to throw hard (regardless of where the ball went). He spent many hours throwing as hard as he could at concrete walls - and he finally learned to throw hard. 

So, find a PC who has a track record of focusing on velo.