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Two hours and better than 80 reviews and no comments
WOW
WOW
There's so much of it I've tuned it out.
RJM
Read it all---it is enlightening
Read it all---it is enlightening
Time to land some of those choppers, or mayber shoot some down.
An employee of ours just told us that her kid goes to ...Play Group!!!!!!
What in the blazes is plya group.
An organized and supervised play time for tods.
An employee of ours just told us that her kid goes to ...Play Group!!!!!!
What in the blazes is plya group.
An organized and supervised play time for tods.
coachric
I am with you
I am with you
very interesting article. i think we all have been that way somewhere down the line to a fault. i would surmise that users of this forum fall into that category but i shouldn't cast that wide a net.
My kids did Mommy & Me and Gymboree. A lot of our friends came from the group. Our son was thrown out of Gymboree when he was two. The instructor complained he liked to run across the tops of the structures instead of inside them. He had to play up a couple of years into gymnastics. I believe as much as anything these sessions were an opportunity for mom to get out of the house and interact with other adult women. They organized their own play times to meet at the park a couple of times a week through these classes.quote:Originally posted by Coachric:
An employee of ours just told us that her kid goes to ...Play Group!!!!!!
What in the blazes is play group.
An organized and supervised play time for tods.
I read the article. It was very short compared to other analysis' I've seen in the past. The term has been in the news for at least three years.quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
RJM
Read it all---it is enlightening
My kids probably wish I was more of a helicopter parent. I'll only coach them on how to handle situations. I put them up to some difficult situations to deal with teachers and coaches themselves. If they think they got shortchanged on a grade they have to handle it. I had my son address is 12U travel basketball travel coach on a situation. The coach, who is the ultimate helicopter parent even now with his kid in high school asked my son if I lacked the courage to confront him on the situation.
Personally, I thought since my son was the player he should be the one to discuss getting screwed by the coach even though he was twelve. I told my son to look the coach right in the eye and tell him he feels he's getting shortchanged on playing time at the benefit of his (coach's) son. He told the coach he's just as good as his son. When the coach questioned him on why he felt that way my son responded their impartial middle school coach gave him more playing time than the travel coach's son.
I told him what to say but I wouldn't do his dirty work for him.
RJM, I for one, like your approach.
Don't knock play group!! 
They are an opportunity for kids to play with other kids their own age. We would meet up with other families usually at a local park. In bad weather go to a museum or something like that. In the summertime we had the pool. They stop at 5 years or so.
I'm a preschool teacher and there is a difference between parents from 1999 and now. I have two parents who have never left their kids except for preschool. Can you imagine!? I told both of them they needed to get a baby sitter and go on a date! yikes. The poor kids don't know how to interact with other children.
We also got a "lecture" at older son's college orientation. We were all like What the hey? They were saying parents called the school all the time! I'm thinking what a waste orientation was - except as a fund raiser.
We pretty much take RJM's approach with both. We have little interaction at the high school - they probably wonder if younger son has parents! We keep up with grades online, make sure he does homework etc, but he had to deal with teachers and issues.
Only one time did husband address a coach. It was after son went in as relief without warming up. yeah, it was a helicopter moment think apache.
They are an opportunity for kids to play with other kids their own age. We would meet up with other families usually at a local park. In bad weather go to a museum or something like that. In the summertime we had the pool. They stop at 5 years or so. I'm a preschool teacher and there is a difference between parents from 1999 and now. I have two parents who have never left their kids except for preschool. Can you imagine!? I told both of them they needed to get a baby sitter and go on a date! yikes. The poor kids don't know how to interact with other children.
We also got a "lecture" at older son's college orientation. We were all like What the hey? They were saying parents called the school all the time! I'm thinking what a waste orientation was - except as a fund raiser.
We pretty much take RJM's approach with both. We have little interaction at the high school - they probably wonder if younger son has parents! We keep up with grades online, make sure he does homework etc, but he had to deal with teachers and issues.
Only one time did husband address a coach. It was after son went in as relief without warming up. yeah, it was a helicopter moment think apache.
TR,
I read the post and waitng for some responses.
I don't think that there is one parent here who could honestly look in the mirror and not say they have been at the controls at one time or another. The important thing is that you turn over those controls and no better time to do it than when they go off on their own.
I read the post and waitng for some responses.
I don't think that there is one parent here who could honestly look in the mirror and not say they have been at the controls at one time or another. The important thing is that you turn over those controls and no better time to do it than when they go off on their own.
I think it's a fine balance. Parents need to be aware of what's going on with school/sports/social life - believe me when I say many don't have the slightest clue and really don't care. As a parent you then you have to sort out when it's important to ask a few questions as an adult, and when it's appropriate for a young adult to handle things on their own. I have always encouraged my high school age kids to handle their own problems with teachers or coaches, but when the response they get is inappropriate or lacking in real resolution, I would not hesitate to join the conversation. Would I allow my 12 year old to talk over a problem with a coach? Sure, because ultimately the outcome isn't going to change the course of his life. But in a situation that could be more important to his future, I'd take a bit more active role. They are still kids after all, without the benefit of a lifetime of experience to back themselves up.
This article was talking specifically about college students - that's probably the time when it's appropriate for parents to stay pretty far in the back seat... however, if a parent has a legitimate concern about their college age student's mental, physical or emotional well-being, then I think they should be encouraged to make a few contacts - there are kids who go to college and find themselves way over their heads with sometimes very tragic outcomes. The rare case? Probably, but I guess I'd rather be safe than sorry. Call me a helicopter mom if you want, but I call it love and concern. Would I call a professor about a grade? No, of course not. But I would make a contact if I felt my child was in trouble, without hesitation.
By the way, my kids all are/were very good students, three will have their master's degrees by the end of 2008, and as adults all are able to solve their problems on their own. It's called maturity, and it's a learning process.
And play groups? Old news, for heaven's sake. It's a different world today - when I was home with my kids (back in the time of the caveman) I was one of the few stay-at-home moms on the block. Every one else was at daycare. So we had to venture outside of our neighborhood to find playmates - definitely NOT an example of helicopter parenting! More of an example of moms (or dads) trying to maintain their sanity... ever spent a day with a bored pre-schooler?
This article was talking specifically about college students - that's probably the time when it's appropriate for parents to stay pretty far in the back seat... however, if a parent has a legitimate concern about their college age student's mental, physical or emotional well-being, then I think they should be encouraged to make a few contacts - there are kids who go to college and find themselves way over their heads with sometimes very tragic outcomes. The rare case? Probably, but I guess I'd rather be safe than sorry. Call me a helicopter mom if you want, but I call it love and concern. Would I call a professor about a grade? No, of course not. But I would make a contact if I felt my child was in trouble, without hesitation.
By the way, my kids all are/were very good students, three will have their master's degrees by the end of 2008, and as adults all are able to solve their problems on their own. It's called maturity, and it's a learning process.
And play groups? Old news, for heaven's sake. It's a different world today - when I was home with my kids (back in the time of the caveman) I was one of the few stay-at-home moms on the block. Every one else was at daycare. So we had to venture outside of our neighborhood to find playmates - definitely NOT an example of helicopter parenting! More of an example of moms (or dads) trying to maintain their sanity... ever spent a day with a bored pre-schooler?
Mythreesons, Good post. There is another angle to this "anti-parental involvement" movement that never get discussed. Coaches and teaches like control and whenever they have someone challenging their methods they start losing control. I can understand why they don't like to deal with parents. Parents are seasoned adults and can call their bluff if they screw up. The easiest way to eliminate the parent and maintain a dictatorship is to lay the "helicopter" guilt trip on them. I like the unfounded statistical example of these kids having lower grades --- lol. That's really grasping at straws! I know of kids and young adults that have been damaged by poor teachers and poor coaches because the kids (and young adults) are naive and the parents are "forced" out of the loop. Good coaches and good teachers EARN the respect of parents and players and don't have to fabricate ways to isolate themselves. Is there a time for parents to tell the kid to fight his own battles? ABSOLUTELY! But it rubs me wrong when that time is mandated by a teacher or a coach by trying to put parents on a guilt trip.
Fungo
Fungo
I nominated my wife for sainthood after I spent three days home from work taking care of her (sick) and our daughter who was two at the time. Taking care of a sick person is easy compared to taking care of a well two year old.quote:ever spent a day with a bored pre-schooler?
Fungo... I agree 100%. The coach who can intimidate the players and the parents into leaving him alone makes his job sooooo much easier! Love the coaches who tell players "DO NOT have your parents call me. I WILL NOT discuss playing time or any other issue with parents." Um, yeah, that's because you have no justification for your decision making process. Good coaches (teachers, bosses, whatever) are all able to back their decisions up with good reasoning and aren't afraid to share it with anyone.
The best coach our boys ever had would walk over to the fence after every high school game where all the parents are watching the boys put the field to bed (hovering around in our helicopters!) and shoot the breeze with all the dads. The "experts" get to ask all their "why in the heck would you do that" questions of the only person who can really answer. He would listen and then without hesitation tell them exactly why he chose to bunt in a certain situation or why the big guy is batting five, not four. It showed everyone that, while you may still not agree with his decisions, at least he has reasons for why he's doing what he's doing. He also had an open door policy for players and parents - other than before or during a game, he would talk to anyone about anything. Very confident in his coaching ability and not afraid to hear the criticism. Ended ALL the griping in the bleachers because everyone knew if you REALLY want to know why Junior isn't playing shortstop all you gotta do is ask!
The best coach our boys ever had would walk over to the fence after every high school game where all the parents are watching the boys put the field to bed (hovering around in our helicopters!) and shoot the breeze with all the dads. The "experts" get to ask all their "why in the heck would you do that" questions of the only person who can really answer. He would listen and then without hesitation tell them exactly why he chose to bunt in a certain situation or why the big guy is batting five, not four. It showed everyone that, while you may still not agree with his decisions, at least he has reasons for why he's doing what he's doing. He also had an open door policy for players and parents - other than before or during a game, he would talk to anyone about anything. Very confident in his coaching ability and not afraid to hear the criticism. Ended ALL the griping in the bleachers because everyone knew if you REALLY want to know why Junior isn't playing shortstop all you gotta do is ask!
When your son is on a team the decisions are the coaches and they should not be questioned by parents.
I feel that the coach has no responsibility to anyone but himself and his players to explain his moves and many times the players need not know either.
I feel that the coach has no responsibility to anyone but himself and his players to explain his moves and many times the players need not know either.
That's it Fungo...great thoughts!
Have to agree with Fungo's comments on this one..... 
On a "related" note based on the original article TRHit posted:
For all posters on this board who grew up in the 80s OR EARLIER.......how did we survive without cell phones and the internet?????
On a "related" note based on the original article TRHit posted:
For all posters on this board who grew up in the 80s OR EARLIER.......how did we survive without cell phones and the internet?????
Just noticed I am now an "Old Timer".......boy NOW I am REALLY feeling "old"...... 
Yep. There were 2 payphones on my dorm floor and while we waited to call home on Sunday nite (collect ) we played cards.... haven't played Pinochle since. Did it go the way of the payphone?
) we played cards.... haven't played Pinochle since. Did it go the way of the payphone?
Pinocle is still around..my dad tried teaching me...I could never get into it......BUT at 75 years old he still plays occasionally..
The only time I agree with the coach not being questioned is when the coach is footing the bill for the team and all the players.
If parents are footing the bill for their child, they have every right to question what they are getting for their money.
Coaches should be open to questions concerning playing time or the lack thereof.
In sport, just as in every other facet of life in the USA, we have choices. If we are not happy with the service provided by a business, we can choose to leave and not have further dealings with that business.
Teaching a child that they do not have to stay where they are not happy will teach them to choose well where they want to be in life. Imagine if our forefathers stayed home because it was disloyal to leave the homeland.
If parents are footing the bill for their child, they have every right to question what they are getting for their money.
Coaches should be open to questions concerning playing time or the lack thereof.
In sport, just as in every other facet of life in the USA, we have choices. If we are not happy with the service provided by a business, we can choose to leave and not have further dealings with that business.
Teaching a child that they do not have to stay where they are not happy will teach them to choose well where they want to be in life. Imagine if our forefathers stayed home because it was disloyal to leave the homeland.
quote:Originally posted by Quincy:
If parents are footing the bill for their child, they have every right to question what they are getting for their money.
I agree to some degree. I think it's ok to be inquisitive along the lines of "Hey, I was curious why you _______" versus challenging them such as "What in the heck were thinking when you _____".
I work for social services.
How lucky the kids of helicopter parents are to have parents who care about them. There are worse things in life that happen to children.
All this concern about helicopter parents should be directed towards abused and neglected children
How lucky the kids of helicopter parents are to have parents who care about them. There are worse things in life that happen to children.
All this concern about helicopter parents should be directed towards abused and neglected children
Fungo,
Well said. My son is dealing with a tough situation relative to HS baseball and I've been wondering if I'm just another delusional helicopter parent. So I checked. I sent him to a quality showcase. It turns out I am delusional, I've been underestimating my son's abilities. At least there's a silver lining to that one.
Sometimes a parent does have to step in. I've stepped in and found that my son had a good teacher and simply needed to work harder. The teacher was able to help us get him going in the right direction. I've also stepped in and found out that my son had a teacher who wasn't doing his job and that my son could have been doing more. In both cases, it was a good thing that I stepped in.
Well said. My son is dealing with a tough situation relative to HS baseball and I've been wondering if I'm just another delusional helicopter parent. So I checked. I sent him to a quality showcase. It turns out I am delusional, I've been underestimating my son's abilities.
At least there's a silver lining to that one. Sometimes a parent does have to step in. I've stepped in and found that my son had a good teacher and simply needed to work harder. The teacher was able to help us get him going in the right direction. I've also stepped in and found out that my son had a teacher who wasn't doing his job and that my son could have been doing more. In both cases, it was a good thing that I stepped in.
quote:Originally posted by Beezer:quote:Originally posted by Quincy:
If parents are footing the bill for their child, they have every right to question what they are getting for their money.
I agree to some degree. I think it's ok to be inquisitive along the lines of "Hey, I was curious why you _______" versus challenging them such as "What in the heck were thinking when you _____".
Tact is always going to get the best response, positive or negative.
My questions to the coach if I was dissatisfied were "Where does my son fit on this team? What role do you envision for him?"
That would usually give me the insight I needed.
quote:How lucky the kids of helicopter parents are to have parents who care about them. There are worse things in life that happen to children.
njbb,...that is a powerful statement indeed!!
I also like this quote from the article:
quote:"One of the best things you can do for your child is let them leave home believing they have the ability to overcome adversity. If we interfere with their ability to do that we really handicap them."
I think the problem with helicopter parents is the obsessiveness of the relationship. The article didn't really delve deeply into the subject, but there are reported incidents of parents calling potentional employers, professors ultimately interfering with the ability of a child/young adult to mature into a responsible adult.
It's important to be involved in your child's life!
It's important to be involved in your child's life!
Here are some examples of helicopter parents from another article:
* According to the study's co-author, Jim Settle, some decisions are never too small for such piloting parents. "Minor roommate disputes, whether or not the room is clean or dirty, whether one roommate takes another roommate's ramen noodles" can be the disputes helicopter parents get involved in, said Settle, who also is vice president of student affairs at Shawnee State University.
* During the research, Settle found distinctive types of hovering parents. The "black hawk parent" is typically angry, abusive and would go straight to the president's office no matter how minor the concern. The "toxic parent" is paranoid enough to log on to their child's online social networking pages as their child to research friends and roommates.
* Settle has heard of parents taking technology to the extreme. "A student reported his parents installed a nanny cam on his computer," he said, "so the parents were able to watch their son 24 hours a day."
* Scott describes herself as a mixture between a black hawk and safety expert. She admitted to sending an e-mail to the head of the dining hall to complain about the amount of salt in the chicken. Despite the fact her daughter was perturbed, Scott said she thought it was the right thing to do.
IMHO, the nanny cam takes the cake!
* According to the study's co-author, Jim Settle, some decisions are never too small for such piloting parents. "Minor roommate disputes, whether or not the room is clean or dirty, whether one roommate takes another roommate's ramen noodles" can be the disputes helicopter parents get involved in, said Settle, who also is vice president of student affairs at Shawnee State University.
* During the research, Settle found distinctive types of hovering parents. The "black hawk parent" is typically angry, abusive and would go straight to the president's office no matter how minor the concern. The "toxic parent" is paranoid enough to log on to their child's online social networking pages as their child to research friends and roommates.
* Settle has heard of parents taking technology to the extreme. "A student reported his parents installed a nanny cam on his computer," he said, "so the parents were able to watch their son 24 hours a day."
* Scott describes herself as a mixture between a black hawk and safety expert. She admitted to sending an e-mail to the head of the dining hall to complain about the amount of salt in the chicken. Despite the fact her daughter was perturbed, Scott said she thought it was the right thing to do.
IMHO, the nanny cam takes the cake!
Way to go, Fungo!
For those who apparently see a helicoptoring parent behind every tree, I can only paraphrase, "[Thou] doth protest too much, methinks."
For those who apparently see a helicoptoring parent behind every tree, I can only paraphrase, "[Thou] doth protest too much, methinks."
Something that hasn't been touched on (if so my bad) is that a parent feels inclined to stay heavily involved (in some cases) because there is a need to fill in the gap where certain HS programs DON'T meet the need from a coaching or instruction perspective and/or don't have the facilities to garner the necessary help for a kid in certain areas. Pitching is especially one of those areas and a parent feels the need to step-in and get the necessary help for a player, goes to the training sessions, contributes suggestions, has dialog with trainers, coaches, instructors, etc. Those parents could be deemed a helicopter. Those types of parents might also find extra work-out measures or routines for their kid, help with recruiting tactics, share baseball info and stories, monitor extra-curricular activities outside of baseball so as to keep their kid on schedule with the demand of in-season and out-of-season workouts, routines, training, etc.
I'm sure the kid feels like they are being monitored (helicoptered) but what is the alternative?
Not everyone gets to play for Tony Rasmus at Russell High School.........if that was the case, we wouldn't have to worry that our kids were getting quality instruction and doing ALL the things necessary to make it to the next level.
I'm sure the kid feels like they are being monitored (helicoptered) but what is the alternative?
Not everyone gets to play for Tony Rasmus at Russell High School.........if that was the case, we wouldn't have to worry that our kids were getting quality instruction and doing ALL the things necessary to make it to the next level.