Any Coventry Commonwealth Games Results?

quote:

Originally posted by NOVABBall13:
From my side, Swampboy, I'm not trying to, nor would I want to, curtail any discussion on things. I just think that sometimes there are ways to say the same thing that aren't as apt to be offensive. I don't have a dog in the fight either but do know a number of the kids on my regional team and I know they would be upset about the comment. I understand that it doesn't apply to them but it was generalized in such a way as the label was stuck on them.

These boards certainly do promote discussion, and much of it is really heated at times, but I have also seen many of the old timers step in to ask that people not so familiar with the unwritten rules, not call out players names etc. and when the rosters were posted along with the D-3 comment then it sort of made it personal. Kind of like saying "The Commonwealth kids are of D-3 talent and here's their names..."

But again, as I always stress, this is simply my opinion and it only matters to me. If you feel otherwise then thats great because it would be a boring existance if everyone agreed with everything I said. LOL (hell, I have a hard time getting people to agree with ANYthing I say, and only then I thinks its because I'm their boss... haha)

You made the point I was trying to about the insertion of the names and being tied to the comments.....

Bananas and cars do not have feelings and I empathize for the boys more than I care about having an unobstructued discussion.

Does that make me think I am superior (I don't), but as everyone is - you are entitiled to your opinion.

Swampboy,
I second your comment on generalizations. Life is full of them. One might comment that ABC MLB team is a poor performing baseball team but it does not mean none of the players is top level.

Novaball13 –
I agree that it is confusing as to the purpose. As you stated, is it to pit the regions against each other in a Battle of Virginia or is it meant to be another showcase event for uncommitted? If the former, why deprive the committed players of the competition? And given that the Commonwealth Games tout that both college and PRO scouts will be in attendance, might not the PRO scouts be interested in seeing some of the committed players? If the purpose is to be another showcase for the uncommitted, why doesn’t the Commonwealth Games enforce its posted rule that no committed player may play? (I am aware of at least two players from the North team last year who were committed, yet played, and I understand that at least one committed player played this year.) Guess it once again reinforces the concept that baseball is a mirror of life. There are those who follow the rules, such as Novaball’s son, and those who flout the rules. If the Commonwealth Games is going to post a rule that no committed players may play, as it has done for years, it needs to enforce the rule.

4PAPA, Those boys may have feelings but if they anticipate playing at the college level, they will need to develop thick skins. Opposing fans can be brutal.

quote:

Originally posted by NOVABBall13:
From my side, Swampboy, I'm not trying to, nor would I want to, curtail any discussion on things. I just think that sometimes there are ways to say the same thing that aren't as apt to be offensive. I don't have a dog in the fight either but do know a number of the kids on my regional team and I know they would be upset about the comment. I understand that it doesn't apply to them but it was generalized in such a way as the label was stuck on them.

These boards certainly do promote discussion, and much of it is really heated at times, but I have also seen many of the old timers step in to ask that people not so familiar with the unwritten rules, not call out players names etc. and when the rosters were posted along with the D-3 comment then it sort of made it personal. Kind of like saying "The Commonwealth kids are of D-3 talent and here's their names..."

But again, as I always stress, this is simply my opinion and it only matters to me. If you feel otherwise then thats great because it would be a boring existance if everyone agreed with everything I said. LOL (hell, I have a hard time getting people to agree with ANYthing I say, and only then I thinks its because I'm their boss... haha)

NOVABBall13,
I think I understand what you're saying, and I respect that you are addressing the issue on its merits.

I think our difference of opinion is over what it means to "call someone out." We're both against it. We have different ideas about when it's happening.

Here's why I don't think anyone was being called out in this thread.

First, Redbird5's comment about low talent and the D1 talent being at WWBA appeared in the thread before the rosters were posted. Also, unlike me, Redbird5 knows the talent and is actually competent to offer opinions on it.

Second, the comment that "this year's Commonwealth Games was great for D3 but in his opinion, was not so attractive for D1 scouts" doesn't mean there were no D1 players at the games. It means the games didn't give the D1 coaches many new looks at D1 prospects they weren't already aware of.

Third, I don't accept your standard that we oughtn't make unfavorable comments about a team once the roster is posted because it would curtail a lot of normal discussion that happens every year. Whether they are posted here or somewhere else, rosters are reasonably accessible for just about any high school, travel, or all-star team. If publication of a roster precludes posting unflattering opinions about the team, then there aren't many teams we can discuss.

Consider this example. There was a high school team in my district that had a very strong team this year with lots of seniors, many of whom will play in college next year. Next spring, someone will undoubtedly start a thread to preview the 2012 high school season. When that happens, it's likely someone will offer the opinion this school's talent is way down (How could it not be?). Would that be calling out the players on next year's squad? The roster will be posted on the school web site. By your standard, yes. By mine, no.

I think the better course of action is not to take comments personally when they aren't intended that way. I've read some very disparaging comments over the past few years about the high school team my son played on. I've read on this site that his high school team was very weak, would finish last in its district, and didn't have any players. I suppose I could have taken those comments as criticism of my son, but they really weren't about him. They were just assessments of the overall team (unfortunately, some of them turned out to be more accurate than I wished). A criticism of a team is not a criticism of every player on it. If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.

I can see it both ways Swampboy... I guess all that it really means is that when I post I try to post a certain way and when others post I accept that they post differently. I might disagree but I certainly wouldn't want to quiet their voice. So I certainly appreciate your side of the debate...

On the tournament itself, I'm disappointed that it turned out that my son didn't play. I would have loved to have watched him represent his region if he had made the team. I really enjoy the games when they are competitions between geographical areas such as this and not simply two teams squaring off. (although I like them too...)

And WB... You are right about the thick skin piece... Have you seen the ECU Jungle? Yikes...

quote:

Originally posted by NOVABBall13:
And WB... You are right about the thick skin piece... Have you seen the ECU Jungle? Yikes...

Yep. I have a child who graduated from ECU and who spent time in that Jungle. Also have heard from a former WB player, who played for NC State, that those in the Jungle would taunt with specific details about family and girl friend.

Let's just say that they do their research very well... LOL

My son was honored to have been selected to play for the North team as a rising junior and also met up with his 17U travel team in East Cobb.

quote:

Originally posted by redbird5:
As mentioned previously, The Commonwealth Games choose to compete directly with the 17U World Wood bat in Marietta, GA. As you could see, the talent level is WAY down. Very few D1 guys. To contrast, the rosters of VA teams in the WWB are littered with D1 players.

quote:

Originally posted by redbird5:
As mentioned previously, The Commonwealth Games choose to compete directly with the 17U World Wood bat in Marietta, GA. As you could see, the talent level is WAY down. Very few D1 guys. To contrast, the rosters of VA teams in the WWB are littered with D1 players.

This is an interesting topic. I would be interested in knowing how many kids have gone D~1. All of these young men played in the Commonwealth games this past summer. This is what I believe to be true at the moment. I am sure there are a few more. Please add to the list if you know of a young man who has committed to a D~1 program.

Brian Beard- ODU
Porter Reinhart - W&M
Tanner Love - GMU
Craig Lopez - VCU
Connor Henderson W&M
Steven Dudley - Norfolk State
Josh Morrison - Pitt
Michael Church - JMU
Bobby San Martin -JMU
Thomas Rogers - GA
Mitch Moynihan- ODU

By the way these 11 players represent about 18 percent of the kids that played this year. I wonder how many more of the younger kids will commit to a D-1 program.

If the Comonwealth Games organizers were really doing this for the kids, they would try to work around events like 17U WWB. Until then, it will be a secondary type event.

Tyler Carrroll - JMU
Kevin LaChance - UMBC
Mitchell MacKeith - Radford

quote:

Originally posted by redbird5:
If the Comonwealth Games organizers were really doing this for the kids, they would try to work around events like 17U WWB. Until then, it will be a secondary type event.

I am not convinced that this is true. Why should the commonwealth game organizers schedule arround any event that is not clearly for a Virginia player. Most of the time I agree with your opinions but I am not following you on this one.

Not to sound wishy-washy...But I think I have had my mind changed or maybe Redbird has led me to an epiphany. But I can think of no good reason that the Commonwealth Games can't be played in late July or early August in order to not interfere with the WWB 15, 16 and 17 year old tournaments (since these are the ages that play in the CG).

quote:

Originally posted by NOVABBall13:
Tyler Carrroll - JMU
Kevin LaChance - UMBC
Mitchell MacKeith - Radford

With these three athletes that represents 22% of the players of the common wealth games that have committed to D-1 programs. Any others?

Things could certainly have changed a bit in the last couple of years, but I can say without any hesitation, that my son would not be where he is now if he did not play in the Commonwealth Games. Just like any other event though, you have to perform when given the opportunity.

Dylan Nelson - Radford
Michael Thomas - UNC-C
Micah Gorman - VMI
Michael Carpenter - VCU

quote:

Originally posted by redbird5:
If the Comonwealth Games organizers were really doing this for the kids, they would try to work around events like 17U WWB. Until then, it will be a secondary type event.

Redbird--

I think "secondary" may not be the best word choice. For a player who does not aspire to go to an out-of-state major conference school, Commonwealth Games can be a primary event.

The Commonwealth Games give about 65 players the chance to play in front of coaches from just about every in-state school, from D3 all the way up to UVA. There is only one game going on at a time, so all eyes are looking the same direction.

I don't know a better venue for a player who expects to play in-state but isn't sure exactly what level to receive concentrated attention from the coaches he most needs to reach. You can't go to Commonwealth Games and fail to be seen. Of course, as you've said on several occasions, some players get exposure and others get exposed, but you know for sure you will get seen by nearly every in-state school if you play in Commonwealth Games.

A pitcher for a travel team without the Canes' national reputation might go to WWBA East Cobb for a week, throw one game at a remote field in front of a small handful of coaches from schools in a different region of the country, and have nothing to show for the week of hotel and restaurant bills. There are many players for whom the Commonwealth Games offer the most exposure--and the most relevant exposure.

I agree with you that players who want pro or major conference attention should spend that week in Georgia, but there are lots of players for whom staying closer to home is a better bet.

Just a point of fact, all players listed as D1 commits played in many other events, and some listed committed prior to the CG being played, IMO whats best for the players exposure is the best schedule and of course playing in both would be...many great Virginia players would not could not play in the CG as they choose to play in WWBA, I can tell you that even though I had plenty of Restaurant and hotel bills we came away with a lot from WWBA WE would have loved to add the CG to that.

quote:

Originally posted by Play2win:
Just a point of fact, all players listed as D1 commits played in many other events, and some listed committed prior to the CG being played, IMO whats best for the players exposure is the best schedule and of course playing in both would be...many great Virginia players would not could not play in the CG as they choose to play in WWBA, I can tell you that even though I had plenty of Restaurant and hotel bills we came away with a lot from WWBA WE would have loved to add the CG to that.

Of course players play in lots of events. Of course lots of players get lots of value from WWBA. Of course it would be wonderful if Commonwealth Games and WWBA 17U didn't fall the same week.

But the two events do conflict, so some players have to decide which is better for them. I was trying to explain why going to a tournament where there the number of players exceeds the total number of new D1 scholarships that get offered in a year might not be the best decision for a player who knows he needs to stay in state and doesn't know what level ball is right for him.

And of course there is the option the Stars choose of sending their 17U team to WWBA 18U the week before and leaving them free to play Commonwealth Games.

My only take on that would be to make a decision on whether it is open to committed players or just non-commits. If the purpose of the tournament is a battle of the regions, then it should be open to all. If it is meant to be a "VA" Showcase event then enforce the rules for only non-commits.

I just think that trying to have it both ways ends up not serving either side very well. Because by its nature of being a tournament then the sides prefer to win and will field the most competitive team and if its stacked with D-1 level commits then it could be tough... Just saying.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Taylor:
Things could certainly have changed a bit in the last couple of years, but I can say without any hesitation, that my son would not be where he is now if he did not play in the Commonwealth Games. Just like any other event though, you have to perform when given the opportunity.

18 kids from this year's Commonwealth games with D-1 committments represents approximately 29% of the rosters going to D-1 schools to play college ball. It would be interesting to know that statistic from your son's era. Then there would be something tangible to compare.

mathews41... And that is assuming that the kids that are NOT on D-1 rosters are only not on them because of talent level and that is simply not the case. There are a number of kids that played in the games that made a conscious choice to either go D-2/3 or to not pursue baseball in college due to other abilities or other sports such as football.

Obviously the percentages are not as good as some of the select showcase squads but I would say that overall it was a pretty good showing given that it did fall in direct conflict with East Cobb...

quote:

Originally posted by NOVABBall13:
mathews41... And that is assuming that the kids that are NOT on D-1 rosters are only not on them because of talent level and that is simply not the case. There are a number of kids that played in the games that made a conscious choice to either go D-2/3 or to not pursue baseball in college due to other abilities or other sports such as football.

That would make them exactly what matthews41 said, a non D-1 player.

quote:

Originally posted by Swampboy:
Redbird--

I think "secondary" may not be the best word choice. For a player who does not aspire to go to an out-of-state major conference school, Commonwealth Games can be a primary event.

I am terming it secondary with respect to overall talent. Without committed kids or players choosing play on a bigger scale (WWB), the talent level is down, IMO. I personally saw one of the regional teams get 10 runned by a 16u travel team. It wasn't even close.

If the mission of the CG is to get exposure to uncommitted kids (which it appears to be), then why compete with the WWB? Why not move it to allow MORE exposure for the kids? The CG is stubborn and is doing a disservice to the baseball players of VA, IMO.

Not following your logic, Redbird.

Are you saying the players on the regional team that got run-ruled by a 16U team should have gone to WWBA 17U? If they're as weak as you say, what good would that do them?

Perhaps having the Commonwealth Games conflict with WWBA 17U serves a purpose. If they didn't conflict, the in-state colleges would only see the players they already know from the elite travel teams. A lot of D3 schools with tiny recruiting budgets manage to get to Commonwealth Games year after year, so maybe it's filling a useful niche.

Assuming you're correct in saying that CG is secondary in talent, what's the problem of having a schedule conflict between a primary event in Georgia and a secondary event in Virginia? The elite teams go to WWBA to get the exposure they want, and the next lower slice of talent gets the exposure they want at the Commonwealth Games. Everybody's happy, right?

quote:

Originally posted by redbird5:
That would make them exactly what matthews41 said, a non D-1 player.

I think that you missed my point. I realize that they aren't on a D-1 roster. The point that I was making was actually to point out that the number of D-1 players coming from the Games could be even higher than it actually is if you went off potential. Some players who you could legitimately count as a D-1 talent actually signed at D-2/3 or not at all simply based on a non-baseball reason.

Unless I am missing something I felt that mathews41 was making a point of quantifying why, the comment about the players in attendance not being D-1 talent, might have been wrong.

And can anyone really throw a blanket over the definition of "D-1 Level talent" anyway? I would bet that the talent level required to make the USC squad is MUCH higher than that required to make any number of other "D-1" institutions.

I would ask. What exactly IS D-1 talent? I ask the question honestly since I am NOT a coach so have little idea of what exactly DOES constitute a D-1 player vice one of a lower talent level... Does a D-1 player run a 6.5 but a D-2 runs a 6.6, or a D-1 throws 90 but D-2 throws 89? Hit 350 vice 349? What is it that makes up D-1 talent and doesn't that change from year to year based on the talent pool?

quote:

Originally posted by NOVABBall13:

quote:

Originally posted by redbird5:
That would make them exactly what matthews41 said, a non D-1 player.

Unless I am missing something I felt that mathews41 was making a point of quantifying why, the comment about the players in attendance not being D-1 talent, might have been wrong.

Just to clarify. I would never suggest in this forum that anyone was or was not a D-1 caliber player. That is a minefeld that I care not to walk through.

Yes the point I was making was with regards to the earlier comments about "this year's Commonwealth Games was great for D3..., was not so attractive for D1 scouts" may not have been entirely accurate IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Swampboy:
Not following your logic, Redbird.

I understand what you are saying but most states do not have their all-star games with such limiting criteria. With only 22% of the players committed to D-1 rosters (and a few points less to VA D-1 rosters given a couple of out of state commits), I think it is safe to say the talent level isn't top flight. Also, there are a couple of kids who played in the event who were already committed.

I guess I need to better understand the purpose of the CG to comment further. If it is to showcase the best underclassmen in VA, it fails. If it is to showcase kids to mid-major D-1's and all the D-3's in the region, then it is succesful.

quote:

Originally posted by NOVABBall13:
I think that you missed my point...

No, I didn't. There are plenty of kids around the country who are D-1 talent and choose to play at a lesser level. There isn't a definitive line as to what makes a D-1 player and what doesn't...other thn the fact that they are either on a D-1 roster or they aren't.

quote:

Originally posted by redbird5:

quote:

Originally posted by Swampboy:
Not following your logic, Redbird.

I understand what you are saying but most states do not have their all-star games with such limiting criteria. With only 22% of the players committed to D-1 rosters (and a few points less to VA D-1 rosters given a couple of out of state commits), I think it is safe to say the talent level isn't top flight. Also, there are a couple of kids who played in the event who were already committed.

I guess I need to better understand the purpose of the CG to comment further. If it is to showcase the best underclassmen in VA, it fails. If it is to showcase kids to mid-major D-1's and all the D-3's in the region, then it is successf.

From what I understand, it started off to be what you first described. It doesn't appear the CG have changed with the ever changing baseball landscape though.

This used to be a huge deal for players from Virginia and still is to a certain extent. It would be nice if the CG organizers would once again make it THE premier event in VA and I think moving it from a week that competes directly with the WWB would be a great first start.

I'm still amazed at the lack of promotion these players get from the games. If it weren't for a few diligent members here, we would barely know the games were played and I think that is a shame.

quote:

Originally posted by 1baseballdad:

From what I understand, it started off to be what you first described. It doesn't appear the CG have changed with the ever changing baseball landscape though.

This used to be a huge deal for players from Virginia and still is to a certain extent. It would be nice if the CG organizers would once again make it THE premier event in VA and I think moving it from a week that competes directly with the WWB would be a great first start.

I'm still amazed at the lack of promotion these players get from the games. If it weren't for a few diligent members here, we would barely know the games were played and I think that is a shame.

I agree whoeheartedly!

From looking at the Coventry Commonwealth Games web site for the two dozen or so sports they have compete, it doesn't look like they make much effort toward bringing in the state's best at anything. It seems more of a celebration of sport than a serious effort to crown meaningful state-wide champions.

The (seldom enforced) rule against committed players participating in the baseball tournament seems consistent with that attitude.

Maybe we shouldn't ask CG to be something they don't pretend to be.

quote:

Originally posted by Swampboy:
..Maybe we shouldn't ask CG to be something they don't pretend to be.

I agree.

The Commonwealth Games two years ago were a good thing. Many pro scouts and many VA college coaches in attendance. These 64 kids had their undivided attention for about two days. If a kid wants to go to school somewhere in VA, I believe you can't beat the Commonwealth Games.

Josh Kuzbel committed to West Virginia University. That is 11 out of 16 committed from the North team, 10 D1's. I am sure more to follow. Congrats Josh.