Bingo. The studies only matter when you want them to.
@baseballhs posted:CTE is a bigger risk to football players then COVID-19. But no one is pressing pause for that.
That's a discussion for another day. How do you know what the actually risk is for football players and their coaches? I don't think anyone knows.
Personally, I think that most understand the impact that not playing football this fall is, and I am not sure why this is really happening now. Maybe it will work itself out, but I don't want to see anyone get really sick because the show must go on.
JMO
I know that for every person under 24 that has died since February, Covid has been the reason 1% of the time.
The risk to a college athlete is minimal. Lots of them will contract the virus and recover just fine. The at risk group has been pretty well defined and it could include older coaches & staff, associated people with underlying conditions, etc. There are so many people (variables) involved in college football that it would be next to impossible to remove them from the risk. University administrators are risk averse and want to avoid the possibility of lawsuits should there be a death related to a program at their school. They will err on the side of caution whether its a logical decision or not. None of like it but the future of college sports (in the near term) is very bleak.
@baseballhs posted:CTE is a bigger risk to football players then COVID-19. But no one is pressing pause for that.
A football player doesn’t go back to a dorm, cafeteria or class and give a non football player CTE.
I’m for people getting back to work and life resuming to as close to normal as possible. But I don’t see how it works for football. There’s too much close contact.
In the past two months I’ve been contacted five times about being in trace lines. It’s from being around small groups of friends whose kids or their friends got COVID just from resuming a normal social life. One kid got it at work. The irony is he works for Abbott Labs. The kids aren’t dying. But a couple got very sick. Football brings a large risk to spread.
Look what hockey and basketball have had to do to avoid COVID. Baseball is having troubles due to players not following the rules.
@baseballhs posted:CTE is a bigger risk to football players then COVID-19. But no one is pressing pause for that.
Well, individuals are. But they would have already opted out of football.
@adbono posted:University administrators are risk averse and want to avoid the possibility of lawsuits should there be a death related to a program at their school. They will err on the side of caution whether its a logical decision or not. None of like it but the future of college sports (in the near term) is very bleak.
I think that university administrators are probably just as worried that some non-athlete student dies and the university gets sued. But in that case, they can say that the student didn't have to come to campus, that there were online options, or the student could take the semester off. In accounts from places like Colorado State, ADs are particularly worried that players are being pressured to play, when they would rather not, and what if something happens to one player whose family says he felt he had to play. Scholarships complicate things - they can't necessarily just walk away, no matter what the NCAA says. So there are many issues involved.
I’m ready for them to pass no fault legislation. Living has risks. Everyday. Getting sick is not new. People dying from virus is not new. Our reaction is completely new. But everything is crazy town right now so who is surprised
No one is being pressured to play. They can opt out and still get their scholarship.
@RoadRunner posted:No one is being pressured to play. They can opt out and still get their scholarship.
True, but all it takes is for one kid to say he “felt” pressured to play and nothing else matters after that.
How many times have we heard on here that a player has signed an NLI, but then is pressured to "voluntarily" withdraw? What the NCAA says, re scholarships, and what coaches do are not at all the same.
Everyone’s concerned about the liability of moving forward with college sports. Is there any chance of liability (ie claims of ruined careers etc) for not moving forward? I am no lawyer. But it seems more will be lost not playing than playing.
@anotherparent posted:How many times have we heard on here that a player has signed an NLI, but then is pressured to "voluntarily" withdraw? What the NCAA says, re scholarships, and what coaches do are not at all the same.
It’s not about backdoor deals. We received a written notice from the school about opting out. So did every other student athlete.
Some people on this site have said that if an NLI is signed, the player should keep the scholarship, stay at the school, and it might work out. Others have said that at that point it's goodbye baseball. But, there is no potentially serious disease involved in those cases. There are enough stories of abusive football coaches doing all kinds of things, that I wouldn't doubt that there are some who are letting it be known that if their players opt out this year, they can kiss playing time/football future goodbye. As we on here know, when people have worked their whole lives to get to a certain point, that's not something you want to hear, especially when there is a potentially serious disease involved.
@anotherparent posted:Some people on this site have said that if an NLI is signed, the player should keep the scholarship, stay at the school, and it might work out. Others have said that at that point it's goodbye baseball. But, there is no potentially serious disease involved in those cases. There are enough stories of abusive football coaches doing all kinds of things, that I wouldn't doubt that there are some who are letting it be known that if their players opt out this year, they can kiss playing time/football future goodbye. As we on here know, when people have worked their whole lives to get to a certain point, that's not something you want to hear, especially when there is a potentially serious disease involved.
Big difference between forcing someone to play vs not allowing to play. And then threatening if you don’t play now, you’ll never play again? If coach wants ya to play that bad, ya got skills. If ya got skills, you’ll play next season. Coaches aren’t risking their livelihoods for non-skilled players. Think of all the college football players breaking the law, etc. Coaches move heaven and earth to keep football skill on the field. Also, what happens in baseball, doesn’t translate to football. Football is a different animal.
I’m not buying it!
I wonder if the $$ lost to start the season then prematurely halt it due to an outbreak was factored into their decision to cancel fall.
@2022NYC posted:I wonder if the $$ lost to start the season then prematurely halt it due to an outbreak was factored into their decision to cancel fall.
Could be. I’d rather them not try to start the season if they aren’t willing to accept occasional outbreaks. Outbreaks will happen. They’ll happen football or no football, but the schools need to determine their tolerance for for it.
@RoadRunner posted:Everyone’s concerned about the liability of moving forward with college sports. Is there any chance of liability (ie claims of ruined careers etc) for not moving forward? I am no lawyer. But it seems more will be lost not playing than playing.
There's nothing preventing a player from leaving college at 21 and signing. Why not sue MLB for reducing the draft from 40 rounds?
@2022NYC posted:I wonder if the $$ lost to start the season then prematurely halt it due to an outbreak was factored into their decision to cancel fall.
The object for every college and university is/was always to get students back on campus so that parents would not turn to less expensive online JUCO classes.
@RoadRunner posted:Everyone’s concerned about the liability of moving forward with college sports. Is there any chance of liability (ie claims of ruined careers etc) for not moving forward? I am no lawyer. But it seems more will be lost not playing than playing.
I always thought that going to college was about getting a degree. I don't remember anyone saying if you don't become a professional athlete your career is ruined.
That would never hold up in court.
One more point...athletic budgets are already cut (some by as much as 30%) because there was no NCAA basketball tournament. So that puts even more financial pressure on football.
@TPM posted:I always thought that going to college was about getting a degree. I don't remember anyone saying if you don't become a professional athlete your career is ruined.
That would never hold up in court.
If you don’t get to play your career is ruined...
@RJM posted:There's nothing preventing a player from leaving college at 21 and signing. Why not sue MLB for reducing the draft from 40 rounds?
I would say not playing prevents players from signing, except for maybe the very top rounds of each professional sport. Not being permitted to compete in college also ruins your college career, correct?
But they set the precedence of getting a year back in the spring. If football doesn't play, neither do almost all other sports and then you have to give them a year again or I would think the lawsuits would start flooding in. Can the schools continue to provide scholarships to all athletes in all sports if there is no football? What are the repercussions if they have a large number of students drop out if they can't go to class or participate in extra-curricular activities. If you can't play football then the logic has to go that you can't do a lot of things on campus involving students. The merry go round will start quickly.
@RoadRunner posted:I would say not playing prevents players from signing, except for maybe the very top rounds of each professional sport. Not being permitted to compete in college also ruins your college career, correct?
The dialogue in this thread reminds me of one of the great lines in the movie Moneyball, that seems appropriate now ; “We’re all told at some point in time that we can no longer play the children’s game, we just don’t know when that’s gonna be.” The harsh reality (due to Covid, NCAA ruling, & cancellations) is that time is gonna be very soon for many players. Is it fair? No. Is life fair? No. My observation is that the kids often move on easier than the parents do.
@adbono posted:The dialogue in this thread reminds me of one of the great lines in the movie Moneyball, that seems appropriate now ; “We’re all told at some point in time that we can no longer play the children’s game, we just don’t know when that’s gonna be.” The harsh reality (due to Covid, NCAA ruling, & cancellations) is that time is gonna be very soon for many players. Is it fair? No. Is life fair? No. My observation is that the kids often move on easier than the parents do.
Yep for sure.
@RoadRunner posted:I would say not playing prevents players from signing, except for maybe the very top rounds of each professional sport. Not being permitted to compete in college also ruins your college career, correct?
Unless a kid is a top prospect why is he at college? My son’s college career ended in a doctor’s office late January of senior year. The doctor told him he needed a second surgery more than a senior season. It was disappointing for both of us he didn’t go out with “This is my last game. This is my last at bat.” I did. My daughter (softball) did.
That spring he helped out at practice. He helped out at home games. Once he got past not playing he found being a semi normal college student a refreshing change.
He missed freshman year with an injury. He put in five years and got two degrees. He had no desire to apply for a medical redshirt to play a fourth season.
The dominoes start to fall ...
Big 10 set to cancel football season
Commissions of the Power 5 met today. I’m starting to think it is really a matter of “when not if” football is shut down this fall. It sounds like the Big 10 and Pac 12 are both close to calling it.
@Around_The_Horn posted:Commissions of the Power 5 met today. I’m starting to think it is really a matter of “when not if” football is shut down this fall. It sounds like the Big 10 and Pac 12 are both close to calling it.
I would love to see the SEC, ACC and Big 12 stick with plans and play. They would own the fall (and make up the whole top 25!). Anyone see Trevor Lawrence tweets today. I am now a big fan.
*and B12.
Zero chance anyone will stick with plans. Whatever the plan has been, it’s led us here. And too many loud voices feel that here is unacceptable. We have a choice. Come up with an all new/significantly different plan or change what acceptable results look like.
@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:I would love to see the SEC, ACC and Big 12 stick with plans and play. They would own the fall (and make up the whole top 25!). Anyone see Trevor Lawrence tweets today. I am now a big fan.
*and B12.
So you have me doing a bunch of ‘what if’s’ in my head. I think that if two power 5 conferences shut down (or one for that matter) I think that the most likely outcome is that they all shut down.
But it becomes much more interesting in the long run if your thought happens. If 2 or 3 power 5 conferences shut down but the others try to play, I think college football as we know it will be shattered. It is already not an equal playing field but if half play and half don’t just think of how future recruiting would go. If you play and everything goes well then you will win on the recruiting front like never before, only the teams in the playing conferences will get the blue chip players anymore. The exact opposite would probably happen if things go badly. Imagine being a PAC 12 California school in recruiting, “ yes come play for us, we care about you and your future and well being, unlike those other schools, plus you can profit off your endorsements with us.”
If they don’t do it together, it will be the most seismic change in college football since the forward pass.
The easy thing to do is kick the can to the spring and hope the risks that stopped you from playing in the fall are gone. Will they be? The only thing that will make a difference is a vaccine and a widely available vaccine. If that is where we are then we all better hope on of the 4-5 lead candidates get green-lighted in October / November and big money flows in to mass produce quickly. What will change in the next 5-6 months that will make the P5 want to play in the spring? The only other thing I can think of is that the election will be over at that point and quite possibly that will cool down the Covid rhetoric. Possibly herd immunity if T cell immunity is at 40-50% and 20% of population gets the virus and B Cell antibodies that come with that? that gets us to 60-70% and the virus will have issues finding hosts. Otherwise, spring will be the same as fall....
@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:The easy thing to do is kick the can to the spring and hope the risks that stopped you from playing in the fall are gone. Will they be? The only thing that will make a difference is a vaccine and a widely available vaccine. If that is where we are then we all better hope on of the 4-5 lead candidates get green-lighted in October / November and big money flows in to mass produce quickly. What will change in the next 5-6 months that will make the P5 want to play in the spring? The only other thing I can think of is that the election will be over at that point and quite possibly that will cool down the Covid rhetoric. Possibly herd immunity if T cell immunity is at 40-50% and 20% of population gets the virus and B Cell antibodies that come with that? that gets us to 60-70% and the virus will have issues finding hosts. Otherwise, spring will be the same as fall....
Agree with NCAA kicking the can, they've done that the whole time. But play out the scenarios. Who plays in the Spring? Not the guys that think they'll get drafted in Spring 2021, many are already opting out. Not the guys that think they will get drafted in 2022, or the guys that think that they might get drafted in 2022 (everyone else eligible in 2022).
No way they are putting on pads in January '21, playing through May '21, and turning around and starting all over in July '21.
"No thank you Mr. Coach and AD, I think I'll be opting out this Spring season, cause y'all at the NCAA set that precedent. Oh by the way, you set some interesting precedents with Spring athletes too. I expect to get my do-over year. But don't worry, you can waive fall roster limits if you want. And by the way, you got this one-time transfer thing that you tabled 'til January, I expect you'll be passing that right? I'm just saying... AD Stricklin down there in Gainesville says he can hook me up with some really sweet endorsement gigs. If you don't pass it, I'm not sure the 9th court of appeals will look kindly on that, seeing as how they already called y'all a cartel violating the Sherman Act, and oppressing my right to earn a living. Interesting, how in the middle of a pandemic and nationwide racial protests, you P5 commissioners thought to write a letter to Congress asking them to prevent my right to make money off my own name, image, and likeness before things 'got out of hand'. When that didn't work, y'all had Mark Emmert and the NCAA petition the supreme court for an emergency hearing to stop me from making money on myself. Yeah, I'm opting out of Spring, but I expect to get paid next Fall, wherever I choose to play."
The NCAA, the conferences have so screwed up. My grandfather told me, "If you ever wonder why something in the world doesn't seem right, follow the money. But if you ever really want to change something about the world that seems wrong, make it financially profitable to do so, then get the hell out of the way."
If the NCAA passes NLI nationwide for September 1, 2020 ( morally and ethically the right thing and probably the only legal thing) and asks players and coaches to sign a liability waiver for Covid or any related illnesses and this thing would go off without a problem.
Explain to me again how football is different than baseball when it comes to spreading germs.
https://youtu.be/l2NhptOahQg
And I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say they all survive this, just they have all the other bench clearing fights in the past.
Big 10 officially not playing football in the fall.
@PTWood posted:Big 10 officially not playing football in the fall.
Ouch. I feel bad for the players. I hope they remain on campus and are able to work out.
@PTWood posted:Big 10 officially not playing football in the fall.
Where are you seeing it say that it is official? Is it probably inevitable, yes. But nothing has been announced officially at this point. Still only rumors and unnamed sources.
But like I said, probably just a matter of time.
Directly from a player. :-( So you are correct, it's not official because it hasn't been published and it could possibly change between now and an announcement tomorrow.. Here is Dan Patrick corroborating:
https://twitter.com/dpshow/sta...810469779136512?s=20