@TerribleBPthrower posted:Did you know Perfect Game held almost 2,000 WWBA games in GA last month and there weren’t any reports of death or even serious illness related to the tournament games? That was more games than MLB will play this year. And they did it with little to no safety measures. PBR was also holding large events just down the street and also had no reports of serious illness or death.
Yes, that was kind of my point. My son played a full summer schedule across multiple states.
@RJM posted:Can you try to keep your personal politics out of the conversation so the thread doesn’t go to hell.
Can you suggest that to all offenders on this thread, and not just one?
@TPM posted:IMO it is the players who decided that they don't want to sacrifice their health so that schools can fill the classrooms. You can't force anyone to do what they don't want to do.
It's not working in baseball either, 17 cardinals players and staff tested positive. All it takes is ONE to infect an entire clubhouse.
We are where we are because our national testing strategy and covid policies SUCK!
JMO
Go on twitter and look up #wewanttoplay.
@DanJ posted:I am going to throw something out there and see if anyone will step up. Lots of people are proudly raising the "we'll return to school and sports when it's safe for the kids" flag. Okay, I'll bite. I'll assume you truly mean that. But I want the number. What infection rate will be safe enough for the return? What death rate or death total will qualify as safe for the kids to return? And no, "I don't know, but less than what we have now" is not an answer.
Here's the thing, people. We have acceptable death numbers for EVERYTHING bad in our country that is preventable. Everything but Covid. Take alcohol. 100% frivolous and unnecessary. We lose approx 88,000 lives each year due to alcohol and we are all okay with it; meaning we're not making changes to save those 88,000 lives. Maybe YOU would give up alcohol to save them, but WE as a county won't. It's a pipe dream. But we should all be able to agree that it would take a LOT more than 88,000 alcohol-related deaths for us as a country to demand prohibition. Would a million annual deaths from alcohol do it? I doubt it. We REALLY love our sauce. How about traffic deaths? We've got a number for that one as well. I could go on and on, but we always find a tolerance for bad stuff that we technically COULD remedy. What we do is find a threshold for our tolerance and then make peace with the balance between the bad stuff and all the things that we feel make our lives better/worth living.
So back to my question. What is the acceptable number of Covid deaths? If we can get that number published for all to see, we might have a chance at rallying around it. We were once told that all we needed to do was flatten the curve. So we hunkered down, bit the bullet and took some steps to flatten it. But the goalposts were immediately moved and continue to be. We as a country can be reasonable. We can sacrifice. We can pause our quality of life. What we don't do well, is get strung along. For everyone to have any chance of truly rallying together, we need a number. And we need one for the scenario where we find a good vaccine and one for if we do not. If we can remove the politics, we can start to have the really difficult conversations about our tolerance for this thing.
We know who’s likely to die and needs to be isolated. What we can’t do is shut down business again. Look what happened the first time. Most hospitality businesses that have reopened aren’t doing well. There’s a chain relation into their suppliers. Other businesses are making a slow, steady return.
So the big decision is how does the country do better business-wise? Right now COVID liability is up in the air. These are two major areas that affect college. And no one knows the answers.
@DanJ posted:I am going to throw something out there and see if anyone will step up. Lots of people are proudly raising the "we'll return to school and sports when it's safe for the kids" flag. Okay, I'll bite. I'll assume you truly mean that. But I want the number. What infection rate will be safe enough for the return? What death rate or death total will qualify as safe for the kids to return? And no, "I don't know, but less than what we have now" is not an answer.
Here's the thing, people. We have acceptable death numbers for EVERYTHING bad in our country that is preventable. Everything but Covid. Take alcohol. 100% frivolous and unnecessary. We lose approx 88,000 lives each year due to alcohol and we are all okay with it; meaning we're not making changes to save those 88,000 lives. Maybe YOU would give up alcohol to save them, but WE as a county won't. It's a pipe dream. But we should all be able to agree that it would take a LOT more than 88,000 alcohol-related deaths for us as a country to demand prohibition. Would a million annual deaths from alcohol do it? I doubt it. We REALLY love our sauce. How about traffic deaths? We've got a number for that one as well. I could go on and on, but we always find a tolerance for bad stuff that we technically COULD remedy. What we do is find a threshold for our tolerance and then make peace with the balance between the bad stuff and all the things that we feel make our lives better/worth living.
So back to my question. What is the acceptable number of Covid deaths? If we can get that number published for all to see, we might have a chance at rallying around it. We were once told that all we needed to do was flatten the curve. So we hunkered down, bit the bullet and took some steps to flatten it. But the goalposts were immediately moved and continue to be. We as a country can be reasonable. We can sacrifice. We can pause our quality of life. What we don't do well, is get strung along. For everyone to have any chance of truly rallying together, we need a number. And we need one for the scenario where we find a good vaccine and one for if we do not. If we can remove the politics, we can start to have the really difficult conversations about our tolerance for this thing.
Covid is just a force of nature like hurricanes, earthquakes, and countless other pathogens that humans have to coexist with. The only difference between Covid and some of these other natural forces is that it is contagious, but fortunately it is a relatively weak virus compared to other viruses which are far more deadly. Covid is most certainly NOT an existential threat to humanity nor does it pose overall risks that are unmanageable, yet the national reaction to this phenomenon is unbelievable. Yes, some people will die from Covid but the notion that we can somehow prevent all deaths due to forces of nature is delusional and the costs of what we are doing far outweighs the real threat that Covid poses to humanity. If Covid were more lethal, for example with a mortality rate of 10-20%, then more drastic measures would be justified but not for a virus with a true mortality rate (not positive case fatality rate) that is well under 1%. Of course we should do our best to protect the more vulnerable with appropriate measures, but the rest of humanity needs to get on with their lives. There will always be another pandemic and this reaction is setting an extremely harmful precedent.
I already know I’m gonna get slammed for this post, but I have thick skin, so here goes. Danj brings up some great points. It’s pretty hard to discuss Covid without thinking politically. This entire Covid issue is mostly political. Is it real? Absolutely. Have people died? Certainly. Is it overblown? 1000%. This is a virus, the same as any other virus we have dealt with throughout history. Some strains are worse than others, but none are fatal in and of themselves. The VAST majority of deaths are people who have serious medical issues. Very few completely healthy individuals have died from Covid alone. And how can you even believe the numbers you hear when people involved in accidents that died but happened to test positive for Covid are counted a s a Covid death. So sorry, count me skeptical. I don’t believe this viral outbreak is any more deadly than any other strain of virus we have. Covid has been around for many, many years. This is just the latest strain. Sorry, but you cannot escape politics on this one. The medical industry is split down political lines. The big pharmaceutical industry doesn’t want you to know that the simple, inexpensive treatments DO work. Obviously, all the studies to disprove this are condition individuals that are already in ventilators. No study to date has been shown that the meds don’t work when take prophylactically. There is a LOT of empirical data that proves these treatments are successful. I’ll get off my soapbox now.
the scientists and health officials have know for sometime that Covid overwhelmingly affects the elderly. you have to do some digging but appx 75% of Covid deaths are people over 65 with health conditions. adjustments could have been made early AND CAN STILL BE MADE NOW to protect the vulnerable and let the rest of us go about our lives. Covid is real and deadly but the over-the-top protective orders put in place by our "leaders" has done more damage to our country than Covid could. IMO.
Obviously I was posting at same time zoom2020 was posting.
So Dan Patrick this morning said Big 10 voted 12-2 to cancel fall sports but now Big 10 spokesperson says that no vote to cancel fall sports has been held. While Big 10 can still cancel I suspect their big trial balloon whisper campaign that P5 was going to cancel hit a brick wall. I really hope SEC, ACC and Big 12 play. #letthemplay
Check this out - Hysterical - 18 seconds long
Can you imagine the groundwork that would be laid by only the SEC and ACC playing this fall or add in Pac 12 or Big 12? If all of the P5 does not pull out then the one who does will be destroyed. I think that it could be P2,3,or 4 after this year. And they will have their own league and maybe own organization if they are successful in football without the other conferences. If you are looking at the money, the ones who make it work will be miles ahead of all the others if they can make it work. I don't understand why if a player tests positive then you just remove them from the program and not everyone and see how it works. I also do not understand if they are not sick or showing any symptoms and just test positive why they have to be quarantined. A doctor friend of mine (no proof that I can find) said they tell them in school that if the entire US population was tested every year in january that close to 50% would test positive for the flu. But only a small percentage show the effects of it. (I don't know enough to argue but just going on what he says).
Look, I have stated that (a) my son played baseball all summer, and (b) I am unhappy that his college isn't letting students on campus. I thus agree with many of you. I'm not throwing around "politics," I happen to think my governor, who is not of my preferred party, has done a good job. However, if this is "political," it is in the sense that a majority of people think precautions should be taken and are not willing to expose themselves and their families unnecessarily, and a majority of health experts agree about what should be done. Isn't this a democracy? Don't we operate based on majorities? Those of you who are in the minority are crying "politics" as though that explains everything. It's weak. Ultimately, politics in a democracy is about persuasion. Where are the large numbers of medical experts arguing the other side? Hm, maybe they don't exist. Why hasn't the government been able to persuade everyone of what you say about the virus? And don't cry about the media, either - there is enough diversity in the media that people can read/watch what they prefer. The fact is that some branches of the government have been both wrong about facts and insensitive to real people's suffering, and have thus failed to persuade a lot of people. That's why we're in this debacle.
Those of you who are just insulting people's politics, maybe you should tell us what your sons' baseball experiences have been this year. Or what you think about D1 sports. Or something related to this site.
Man I can’t wait for the election to be behind us.......
@anotherparent posted:Look, I have stated that (a) my son played baseball all summer, and (b) I am unhappy that his college isn't letting students on campus. I thus agree with many of you. I'm not throwing around "politics," I happen to think my governor, who is not of my preferred party, has done a good job. However, if this is "political," it is in the sense that a majority of people think precautions should be taken and are not willing to expose themselves and their families unnecessarily, and a majority of health experts agree about what should be done. Isn't this a democracy? Don't we operate based on majorities? Those of you who are in the minority are crying "politics" as though that explains everything. It's weak. Ultimately, politics in a democracy is about persuasion. Where are the large numbers of medical experts arguing the other side? Hm, maybe they don't exist. Why hasn't the government been able to persuade everyone of what you say about the virus? And don't cry about the media, either - there is enough diversity in the media that people can read/watch what they prefer. The fact is that some branches of the government have been both wrong about facts and insensitive to real people's suffering, and have thus failed to persuade a lot of people. That's why we're in this debacle.
Those of you who are just insulting people's politics, maybe you should tell us what your sons' baseball experiences have been this year. Or what you think about D1 sports. Or something related to this site.
If anyone has been consistently wrong about this, it is the medical experts we are all expected to follow.
@anotherparent posted:Look, I have stated that (a) my son played baseball all summer, and (b) I am unhappy that his college isn't letting students on campus. I thus agree with many of you. I'm not throwing around "politics," I happen to think my governor, who is not of my preferred party, has done a good job. However, if this is "political," it is in the sense that a majority of people think precautions should be taken and are not willing to expose themselves and their families unnecessarily, and a majority of health experts agree about what should be done. Isn't this a democracy? Don't we operate based on majorities? Those of you who are in the minority are crying "politics" as though that explains everything. It's weak. Ultimately, politics in a democracy is about persuasion. Where are the large numbers of medical experts arguing the other side? Hm, maybe they don't exist. Why hasn't the government been able to persuade everyone of what you say about the virus? And don't cry about the media, either - there is enough diversity in the media that people can read/watch what they prefer. The fact is that some branches of the government have been both wrong about facts and insensitive to real people's suffering, and have thus failed to persuade a lot of people. That's why we're in this debacle.
Those of you who are just insulting people's politics, maybe you should tell us what your sons' baseball experiences have been this year. Or what you think about D1 sports. Or something related to this site.
Actually, no. It's not a democracy and we do not rely on a majority to make decisions. We live in a Representative Republic, designed as such to avoid "mob rule". The framers knew well what is best for Manhattan, N.Y. probably is not best for Manhattan, KS and one should not dictate policy to the other due to sheer numbers.
@anotherparent posted:Look, I have stated that (a) my son played baseball all summer, and (b) I am unhappy that his college isn't letting students on campus. I thus agree with many of you. I'm not throwing around "politics," I happen to think my governor, who is not of my preferred party, has done a good job. However, if this is "political," it is in the sense that a majority of people think precautions should be taken and are not willing to expose themselves and their families unnecessarily, and a majority of health experts agree about what should be done. Isn't this a democracy? Don't we operate based on majorities? Those of you who are in the minority are crying "politics" as though that explains everything. It's weak. Ultimately, politics in a democracy is about persuasion. Where are the large numbers of medical experts arguing the other side? Hm, maybe they don't exist. Why hasn't the government been able to persuade everyone of what you say about the virus? And don't cry about the media, either - there is enough diversity in the media that people can read/watch what they prefer. The fact is that some branches of the government have been both wrong about facts and insensitive to real people's suffering, and have thus failed to persuade a lot of people. That's why we're in this debacle.
Those of you who are just insulting people's politics, maybe you should tell us what your sons' baseball experiences have been this year. Or what you think about D1 sports. Or something related to this site.
The majority of public health "experts" or politicians are not calling for the shutdown of sports, school, and businesses. Just last week Schumer and Cuomo called for schools in New York to occur in person in defiance of the teachers union. Yes, they and many public heath officials are urging certain precautions like testing, masks, and distancing but few are actually demanding that we shut society down. On the other hand, those who are calling for a shutdown selfishly think that everyone else should accommodate their neuroticism or they are in a position where a shutdown doesn't affect them personally, which is also selfish.
@22and25 posted:Actually, no. It's not a democracy and we do not rely on a majority to make decisions. We live in a Representative Republic, designed as such to avoid "mob rule". The framers knew well what is best for Manhattan, N.Y. probably is not best for Manhattan, KS and one should not dictate policy to the other due to sheer numbers.
Stunning the number of educated adults that either don’t know or don’t understand this.
Okay, @anotherparent, are you up for my challenge? What's the number/s? You seem like you've got a whole lot of science and doctors in your corner. Perfect! I love math. So let's have it. Talk to your doctors and your scientists, crunch the data and "facts," and then let us know how many deaths from this thing are acceptable. Because surely you understand that zero is impossible. I'll concede that 165K and the current daily rate are too many for you. I just want to know what numbers will make you comfortable calling things "safe." Safe for a return to the things that make our lives worth living and meaningful.
I've said it before, but it's worth repeating. Covid deaths do not have a monopoly on pain, suffering, despair, and tragedy.
No idea what you mean; I've already said that I want colleges open and sports back now.
If zero deaths were a goal the speed limit on interstates would be 15 mph.
