any opinions abt mechanics: delivery from the stretch

What you're describing is NOT pitching from the stretch position. It is pitching from the wind-up. In the stretch, the pitcher stands facing 3B(for a righty) with the outside of the right foot against the front edge of the rubber.

As far as pitching from the wind-up goes, starting with a step back is fine so long as it is not too big of a step. It's the step to the side that I don't personally care for.

Regardless, many coaches prefer their young pitchers to pitch only from the stretch because they feel it minimizes movement and therefore (hopefully) reduces balance issues.

Sounds good, taking a step back helps create more momentum, giving more velocity

But velocity shouldn't be too much of a concern at this age... just work on getting everything nice and fluid.. and most importantly, HAVE FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

roger tomas:

i hear what you are saying abt NOT being the stretch delivery but it's sort of modified because he's not bringing his arms over the head as you would in the wind-up.

that's what caused my question actually.

watching the game on espn last nite i never saw a strech delivery start with a step backward but then again they are pro's not 9yo!

thanks.

I like to see a 9yrold get his own rhythm going before you try to teach him something---some kids do it right from the git go---

You don't have to go over your head to do the windup delivery.

A small (emphasis on small) step back with the free foot is perfectly normal and is not uncommon. Like RT, I prefer the step back as opposed to a step to the side.

What is meant by "staying low to the ground" in step 4?

With pitchers that young, one must be very careful in emphasizing a "push" off the rubber.

trhit:

i agree.

that brings in another issue. here you have a kid whose father [me] has worked to develop skills and fundamentals in all sports since a young age.

i've coached basketball 4 consecutive yrs with him, two in little league.

but this year i am taking a step back from baseball and we put him on a team with me NOT the coach- just an assistant.

so my son shows up and the coach sees him and eyes light up. 'ok here's our pitcher. come here kid. this is how i want you to pitch. do this. do that.'

i respect coach's authority and want to teach my son to do what the coach tells you. the coach is a former ballplayer himself and really knows the game. but i have knowledge and experience too but not on the mound so i defer to him.

anyway it can be a dilemma for parents. but ultimately i guess one must hold one's tongue and let it be. if you're not the coach just enjoy the game.

i must say, it can be tough to NOT be the coach for the first time and give my son over to a stranger for instruction. but we do it everyday at school so why is this different? it's interesting.

i think i read on this forum once:

"sports builds character in kids; it REVEALS character in adults" !!!

that is some serious wisdom.

thanks for your time.

tzz

I see too many coaches try to "clone" young LLers into that they believe is the right way without even giving the kid a chance to show what he can do


At that age let the kid do his thing and work with him to get better

tzz, if your son is interested in pitching, I would recommend finding a good pitching coach. IMHO, it is far better for the kids to learn good mechanics at the earliest age possible. Bad habits only get harder to break with each passing year.

One of the best things I did for my son in baseball was to get him with an outstanding pitching coach after his 9YO season.

Ask around about pitching coaches. Observe some of the pitchers they teach. Listen closely to see if what they say makes sense, or if they are merely spouting dogma. And pay more attention to these things than to whether or not they pitched in the MLB. Some of the worst coaches I have seen were ex-MLB'ers. You need someone who is a student of the game and who is a good teacher.

You stated that the coach modsified his pitching from the "stretch" but what you actually described, was the wind-up. Can you describe what he was doing before and why these modifications concern you?

quote:

Originally posted by tzz:
i hear what you are saying abt NOT being the stretch delivery but it's sort of modified because he's not bringing his arms over the head as you would in the wind-up.

As Texan pointed out, it's not the hands going over the head that makes it a wind-up. It's standing facing home plate with both feet on the rubber.

The difference is that from the stretch position the pitcher can spin and throw to a base occupied by a runner. From the wind-up position, the only way the pitcher can throw to a base is to first step back off the rubber with the pivot foot.

hsballcoach:

the change is the step back from the mound. i recognize the value of that and the boy has taken to it just fine.

coach still refers to it as from the "stretch". i think because he is not bringing arms over his head.

just semantics i guess but it seems from here on this board that regardless of over the head or not, what we are doing now is a 'wind-up'.

previous to coach's modifications, i had him facing third to start delivery, go from the stretch and deliver. at 9yo i thot this was best.

coach has added this change

1. two feet on the mound facing plate
2. one step backward to start motion
3. as coming forward, face thirdbase and slide foot off the mound into the hole in the ground
4. lift front leg, stay low to the ground
5. push and deliver

Texan::: staying low is what the coach wants from him: bending legs to keep ball from sailing high. could you clarify what you mean abt being careful to instruct pushing off the rubber?

i really appreciate the input because i value opinions on this board a great deal.

roger tomas:
got it.

yr post came in after i just posted mine so the 'stretch' vs. 'windup' terminolgy is clearly understood by me.

am i right to conclude: if he can do the wind-up, encourage him to do so?

it will give him more power from torso and not rely on his arm so much and give him the mechanics for later?

there is no leadoffs or stealing yet so we don't need pickoff moves.

tzz, sent you a PM.

quote:

Originally posted by Roger Tomas:
As far as pitching from the wind-up goes, starting with a step back is fine so long as it is not too big of a step. It's the step to the side that I don't personally care for.

RT is there a specific reason why you don't like the step to the side? Just curious.

tzz,
As was said in an earlier post, get your son in front of a seasoned pitching coach. I took my 9yo to a clinic for the first time this yr. It worked out great. He and I both learned what we had to enhance in his wind up. Right now he's throwing with great fluidity and rythme more so than he did last yr and the fall. IMO, a 9yo should not be pitching from the stretch. Perfect the wind up first.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:

quote:

Originally posted by Roger Tomas:
As far as pitching from the wind-up goes, starting with a step back is fine so long as it is not too big of a step. It's the step to the side that I don't personally care for.

RT is there a specific reason why you don't like the step to the side? Just curious.

It generates momentum in the wrong direction. When a pitcher steps to the side (say toward 1B for a righty), he then has to get his weight re-centered with respect to his back leg before striding toward home. And this has to occur on one leg since it happens during the knee lift. Most pitchers will blend the re-centering and the stride and I feel that's just not a very precise movemement that lends itself to repeatability.

Thanks for explaining it RT. I can see what you are saying now.

Do you think you can get back to center if the step to the side is very small - a move to get moving step?

I have some pitchers who do this and they feel and look centered but we make sure that the step is very small.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
Thanks for explaining it RT. I can see what you are saying now.

Do you think you can get back to center if the step to the side is very small - a move to get moving step?

Sure. A small step is not as big of an issue as a big step.

quote:

I have some pitchers who do this and they feel and look centered but we make sure that the step is very small.

Sounds like your pitchers have already accomodated the side step so it might be best to leave it alone unless you can attribute some deficiency to it. But I wouldn't teach it to young new pitchers.

All you guys on here saying the step back behind the rubber to start your pitch from the wind up, I ask you: "How many Major Leage pitchers do that? Show me one. They take the small step to the side and that is what I teach my 10yo. I think its the best way.

To me its a matter of comfort for the pitcher. As I stated before I have some guys who step to the side and some who step to the back. Regardless of which one you do Roger Thomas had it correct - the pitcher needs to get back to center before he can pitch.

Even if you step back you could go back to far and be off center. If you step backward about a foot then you are leaning backward and are now fighting your body to get to center. Same with stepping to the side.

I just teach keep it about a six inch step to get moving and if they feel comfortable bringing the arms overhead or keeping in front either way is fine.

If I have a kid who is out of sync and not getting centered then he goes to the stretch position until we can get in the bullpen to work on it.

quote:

All you guys on here saying the step back behind the rubber to start your pitch from the wind up, I ask you: "How many Major Leage pitchers do that? Show me one. They take the small step to the side and that is what I teach my 10yo. I think its the best way.

The answer is: not enough

I'll show you two

Sandy Koufax (which you can see at 0:43)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm8oHYRS6hA

Nolan Ryan also does this
http://a556.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/58/l_dec8...412f207d7057da73.gif

And every kid is different, obviously, some may like a 6 inch step back, some longer, some might be so against it that they think they'll do terrible if they use it, so it'd be counterproductive to have them try and do it anyways, unless they have a change in thinking

quote:

Originally posted by XFactor:
The answer is: not enough

I'll show you two

Sandy Koufax (which you can see at 0:43)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm8oHYRS6hA

Nolan Ryan also does this
http://a556.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/58/l_dec8...412f207d7057da73.gif

And every kid is different, obviously, some may like a 6 inch step back, some longer, some might be so against it that they think they'll do terrible if they use it, so it'd be counterproductive to have them try and do it anyways, unless they have a change in thinking

If the answer is not enough then what was the question? I really don't remember a question where not enough is an answer.

Overall my point was to let the player do what they feel is comfortable until they get out of sync then you fix it.

quote:

Originally posted by Eric G:
All you guys on here saying the step back behind the rubber to start your pitch from the wind up, I ask you: "How many Major Leage pitchers do that? Show me one. They take the small step to the side and that is what I teach my 10yo. I think its the best way.

Note that I never said any particular way is the best way. I only said that I don't care for the step to the side. And then I followed that up by saying a small step to the side is not as big of an issue as a big step to the side. And I even suggested not messing with pitchers who have "accomodated" the side step.

Regardless, what's really important is getting the hips moving toward home plate. A step to the side or to the back is not absolutely necessary to accomplish that nor will it necessarily prevent that. In fact, from the stretch, you have no choice. My son actually takes a small step in front of the rubber which is neither a step to the back or to the side. But he's able to push his hips to the target to build up momentum and get a nice long stride in a repeatable fairly manner.

I am with coach---it is all about comfort---if a pitcher is successful doing what he is doing and not putting any undue stress on his arm and body then why change him--the same with a hitter---the name of the game is to be comfortable within yourself

9 year old? I would focus on balance point with stride thigh parallel to ground,front side closed to plate, stride foot over pivot foot, and head over pivot foot. Both windup and strech deliveries have this in common. Also emphasize straight line mechanics, stepping on a real/imaginary line between pivot foot and plate.