Any Thoughts

Independent Lab, Substantial penalties, random tests, off-season tests ....

... it looks like a serious effort. Now, if they will preserve samples to test against future break-throughs in masking agents

Seriously, nothing will ever be 100 percent, but the penalties are stiff enough to really get peoples attention and the random testing schedule makes it dangerous to "fudge" with the stuff. It's still going to occur, but I believe that it will become a spot problem as opposed to a major one.

I agree with HHH. The penalties are tougher, which do follow the governments supposed bill. And they added amphetamines to the list.

Definitely a move in the right direction...

Adding amphetamines was really important in my opinion - they have been used in baseball for decades (see Jim Bouton's Ball Four for one data point) - and needed to be cleaned up just as much as the steroids and other more modern drugs.

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Haven't read the policy. Is there blood tests or just urine tests?

My understanding is that Human Growth Hormone (HGH)is only detectable by blood tests.

If there is no blood testing then the whole thing is moot. As someone said in another thread..."perfume on a pig". Worthless.

Been wanting to use that!!

Lifetime ban - with a chance to ask for reinstatement after two years.

???????

Maybe lifespans are getting shorter again.

observer44:

"perfume on a pig"...is that anything like "Eau de Toilette" on a moose?

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"Eau de Toilette".....

The first fragrance by designer Gotwood4sale. Created with daring athletic young mooses in mind, "Eau de Toilette" is a masculine brown hued, north woods scent with essences of musk, duff, honey and bark, with thick wooded notes.

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That thick wooded note would be spruce .

Daring?...as in 'tightrope walkers'?

Maybe we can get the "pretenders" out of baseball now. All those supposed great draft picks and MLB players will have to compete against "real" gifted" athletes again, just the way it used to be in the 50's.

It's about time...Yeh!

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While I would really like to believe that urine tests will clean up the league...the cat is already out of the bag...until they do blood testing it's all a farce. Public realtions "Feel good" to make us think that they are on top of it.

HGH is now essentially legalized.

Beyond the obvious limitations of urine testing...Victor Conte was quoted in ESPN magazine a while back as saying that the chemists were already three stages ahead of the testers.

Then there is always gene therapy...if you start to research that you see that the whole future of professional sports is seriously in jeopardy...

Have a nice Day!

quote:

Originally posted by observer44:
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"Eau de Toilette".....

The first fragrance by designer Gotwood4sale. Created with daring athletic young mooses in mind, "Eau de Toilette" is a masculine brown hued, north woods scent with essences of musk, duff, honey and bark, with thick wooded notes.

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You don't by chance write those wine descriptions for a living do you?

Are these suspensions with or without pay?

If it is with pay there will be some that will try to get around the testing process.

If it is without pay I doubt you will find many that would risk trying to "beat the system".

When the wallet is brought in play there seems to be a different mindset.

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Top Dog...

Thanks for the positive literary review....

When my good friend Gotwood4sales starts up these moose threads I just get so inspired.....

And Yes, I admit it...I write moose perfume ads for a living...

OK, I lied...

Amazing what one can do with a perfume ad and a little literary creativity...



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I Look at the testing this overstated way...

If I take the HGH, I stay in the league, I excel, I stand to make tens of millions. Since they don't blood test. I have a 1% chance of getting caught.

I don't take the roids, I am weaker smaller, and painfully legal. And there is a big chance that I not only don't make the big $, but that I wash out of the league and end up pounding nails.

Let's see chance of making tens of millions and a minisule chance of getting caught? Or a big chance of not making the big money or washing out?

Which do I take...hmmm, let's see....

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O44,
There is another deterrent that should come into play. It’s called Right vs. Wrong. Some players will cheat and some will not. Why does society accept the superstar’s cheating ways. Wouldn’t it be great to see Bonds “egged” by his own fans? Of course the fan that egged Bonds would be forever banned from the ballpark while Bonds plays on.....

At least they are attempting to do something. It is long overdue.

Still insufficient and too weak - but better than nothing I guess.

BBscout makes an interesting point..."The John Olerud's of the world will now have a chance to be great again". This makes me wonder, as an area scout, what percentage of the players, both high school and college, do you suspect might be juicing?

Over the past summer, I've wondered how this will affect players coming up through high school and college, compared to what we've seen teh last 5 or 10 years. How many of the outstanding kids have we seen who've maybe been using chemical supplementation to make it to the next level? I don't think the number is great, but I've talked with other coaches who fear that more kids are doing this than most would believe.

One part that stands out to me:

The 2nd time you are caught - you get a 100 game suspension.

So - you get caught the first time - get a 50 game ban and suffer the humiliation of having your name plastered all over the media.

Then - despite that - you do it again - and yet you are still not out for a whole season or more.

I would think that a player in this example is absolutely committed to using steroids and should be gone forever.

Seems way too lenient to me for a 2nd offense.
IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by 06catcherdad:
Over the past summer, I've wondered how this will affect players coming up through high school and college, compared to what we've seen teh last 5 or 10 years. How many of the outstanding kids have we seen who've maybe been using chemical supplementation to make it to the next level? I don't think the number is great, but I've talked with other coaches who fear that more kids are doing this than most would believe.

I believe (though I have nothing to substantiate it, that the number is lower than it used to be. It depended on the sport in HS ... In the mid-late 90's in football I believe that it was very common in HS. No reason to believe it wasn't there in a lot of HS players. They "emulate" their "Idols".

HiHardHeat:

Some HS players "emulate their idols" and end up paying the ultimate price...they lose their life.

No better reason in my book to severely tighten things up than protecting lives of young and old.

It's been increasing in HS instead of diminishing like I supposed.

[QUOTE="USA Today Article"]Steroid use among high school students more than doubled from 1991 to 2003, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. National surveys indicate 3% to 3.5% of high school students have used steroids.
[/QUOTE]
The 3 to 3.5% might not seem high until you realize that a majority of thoses high schoolers that are taking them are playing sports. It's a very real problem still.

Less than 4% of the nations 18,000 high schools test for steriod use, though legislation is pending in a lot of states that would change that.

Fungo...

I too believe that morality alone should be enough, but right and wrong have become so negotiable.

IMO, A cynics paradise.

I would be willing to venture a guess that the use of steroids at a HS level has increased in spades since this whole controversy surfaced. Players who were happily oblivious now feel that they have to make a choice. Players that were on the edge are pushed forward. Sad.

Do find optimism in the testing plan for this reason....while it may be flawed, the general opinion at all levels has been overwhelming positive. Most young players will hear that this will take care of the problem. I believe that a large percentage will believe that the roid era is over and that their big league dreams will not include the juice. May dissuade them now.

I was talking to an ex-pro player at the gym this morning and his comment was "no more greenies- guys are going to have a tough time with that as much as anything". The amphetamine part of the rule is being brushed over and is every bit as significant as anything. That's what makes me laugh. All of a sudden there is legislation and interest in a problem (steroids)that has existed for years. Somebody like a Canseco rocks the boat and these guys suddenly find a clue. It's a joke and our politicians should be ashamed of their sudden holier than thou attitutudes. If they really cared about the problem (instead of using it to advance their political agendas and careers) they would have done something about it a decade ago.

calbb

Amen to that---and they (the politcos) dont have skeltons--are you kidding me!!

We only know a smidgen regarding the things they get away with--ala Sen Kennedy