ANyone have an answer?

quote:

I’ve seen this tactic pulled in tournaments when the total number of runs and runs given up were used to determine seedings or tiebreakers, but I’ve never seen it in HS. I ‘d hope all HS coaches have more respect for each other and the opposing team to do something that unsportsmanlike.

the "tactic" as you call it takes kids who are being embarassed off the game field, and puts them back into a practice situation

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
the "tactic" as you call it takes kids who are being embarassed off the game field, and puts them back into a practice situation

You say that as though you think its ok for a team to forfeit a game to give either themselves or another team an advantage in seedings.

I have no problem with saving kids unnecessary embarrassment, but when a forfeit is used as I’ve described it, it reeks and has nothing to do with saving embarrassment.

FWIW,

I got a reply from our section commissioner yesterday. I know he’s a busy man and not the actual rule’s guy for our section, so I’ll forgive his not actually looking up the answer. But, it does go to show how even the most knowledgeable baseball people don’t have all the answers ready to spit out on a moment’s notice. This guy is one of the most respected HS baseball people in the entire state.

I am just guessing as time does not allow for me to look this up, but I am guessing all the records would count that took place during the three innings.

Later that same day, I talked to our HS coach who’s been a top coach in the area for over a decade. He thinks those records have to be thrown out.

Then, just on a whim and because I know the umps are in seminars all the time on this stuff, I asked the 2 umps at the game. They both believe the records should be tossed.

Now that I know the assistant commissioner is the rule’s guy, I’ll try him too, because no matter what happens, he would be the “authority” for games we play.

quote:

by sk: You say that as though you think its ok for a team to forfeit a game to give either themselves or another team an advantage in seedings

in the situation you describe I'm not seeing how that team taking a drubbng could gain anything but some extra practice time from a forfeit

you ARE to be commended for the effort you've put forth on keeping/compiling the stats for your team
but if ya extrapolate that 20-0 competitive imbalance nation-wide it shows how little meaning they have

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
you ARE to be commended for the effort you've put forth on keeping/compiling the stats for your team but if ya extrapolate that 20-0 competitive imbalance nation-wide it shows how little meaning they have

Absatively and posilutly true!

The thing I find most challenging is to see if I can somehow use factors to “even things up”. Unfortunately, the way I keep score isn’t nearly as sophisticated as it needs to be to factor thing well. And for the reasons you mention, when I see polls that show the top 100 HS players, I usually get a really sour taste of disbelief in my mouth.

Its always stumped me as to how so many people just accept that simply because a school is a certain size, they should be playing against schools of equal size. The number of “A”, “B”, “C”, or “D” players is pretty much standard, no matter what the area or size of the school. That typically means that given a team of 18 players, if those 18 players are drawn from a student body of 4,000, the odds are it will have proportionately more players in every category, available to it than a school with a student body of 1,000.

But that’s not the end all that determines anything! All it does is provide an “OPPORTUNITY”, not a guarantee. The coaching the players get makes a tremendous difference, and a great coach like our school has, can and very often will turn out a better product at a small school, than an average coach will at a big one.

FI, right now our team is 5-0. the program’s only been in existence for 3 years, this is the 1st V year, and there isn’t a Sr on the team because there are no Srs at the school. the 1st 2 games we played were against schools that have both been around more than 40 years, and are at least as big or bigger. The 3rd game was against a school that’s only been around about 15 years, but has been a in the running for league championships every one of the last 10 years.

The next team we played is in exactly the same boat we are. 3 year old school in an area with lots of bucks, but their coach is a real young fellow with little HC’ing experience. That’s the team we steamrolled. Its not that we had better players, but we were much more prepared. The team we played yesterday is one of the oldest schools in the Sacramento Metro area, and is another one just as large or larger than ours. While we didn’t steamroll them, the game wasn’t in doubt from the warm-ups, and was verified in the very first inning.

Are we gonna lose some games? I certainly expect we will, but its not gonna be as many as what people expected! This team is a fundamentally sound as any HS team I’ve ever seen. If they had a couple of “A” players they’d be scary!

But the imbalance is everywhere! No HS team is playing all of their games against equally competitive teams. but that’s the way it is in the ML too, and they still manage to use the stats, so they can be used. The major difference is, even the worst of SKs in the ML or pro ball, is better than all but a very tiny percentage of SKs at the HS level. that means the numbers are invalid. But even if the numbers can’t be used to compare one team against another, they certainly can be used to compare players on the same team.