as they grew up, when my son was 8 he threw 44mph @10-52mph,@12-68,@13-72,@14-78 so far! i know all kids are diffrent just tring to get a feel of what my son might throw a few years down the road.
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let it all come natural-- he will end up throwing as fast has his FULLY DEVELOPED body will permit--each kid is different
TRhit
TRhit
I have heard three mph per year increase during the high school years is about normal. But in my opinion it is much easier to go from 80 to 85 that it is to go from 90 to 95. I also agree with TRHit, allow a lot of this to happen naturally.
Fungo
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Fungo
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Work on pitcher specific weight training, running, stretching, plyometrics, band work, mechaincs, long-tossing, overload/underload traininig and learn what mechanics are most useful in velocity training. A complete well rounded program will help to develop velocity and control. Velocity "MAY" happen on its own, but it can be greatly facilitated by hard work and smart training. I personally would not wait for the gods unless I was a natural phenom. It ultimately will come down to ability, but you can always work to improve.
Your sons velocity seems to be on track.
the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"
Your sons velocity seems to be on track.
the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"
thanks for the comments, hes only pitched for 3 years and not much at that. i didnt want to hurt a young arm! hes a 08 lefty, dick hughes (pitched for the cards) has worked with him some and thinks he has a bright future. ive just found this site and had my eyes opened to what i need to do for my son and still learning as i go. i dont know if he will pitch at the next level but he is a good all around player that wants to play D1. oh and he has a 63mph knuckle ball that he has hit me with a few times lol.
ghoti,
I tracked velocities for players at different age groups for years since LL. The speeds you list are average (+/-) for the "better pitchers". What I mean by this is that they threw those speeds with good control and were considered the better pitchers. My 13 year old hit 80 at 13 and I knew another in the state that hit 82. A few years ago I clocked two different 13 yr olds, one from Tennessee that threw 84 and one from Texas who threw 88 consistently.
Knowledge is Power! Thank you Mavens and HSBBWEB!
I tracked velocities for players at different age groups for years since LL. The speeds you list are average (+/-) for the "better pitchers". What I mean by this is that they threw those speeds with good control and were considered the better pitchers. My 13 year old hit 80 at 13 and I knew another in the state that hit 82. A few years ago I clocked two different 13 yr olds, one from Tennessee that threw 84 and one from Texas who threw 88 consistently.
Knowledge is Power! Thank you Mavens and HSBBWEB!
ghoti,
Bighit is SPOT ON. Check out the STRENTH & CONDITIONING discussion thread. Find a sports medicine professional in your area who can explain specific band and light weight (3 lbs or less) exercises that support the elbo and sholder. It is more important to protect a young developing arm against injury. The byproduct will be increased velocity. Sounds like he has a bright BB future. God Bless and good luck.
"You can't hit what you can't see."
Ping Bodie (NYY 1918-21) Speaking on Walter Johnson
Bighit is SPOT ON. Check out the STRENTH & CONDITIONING discussion thread. Find a sports medicine professional in your area who can explain specific band and light weight (3 lbs or less) exercises that support the elbo and sholder. It is more important to protect a young developing arm against injury. The byproduct will be increased velocity. Sounds like he has a bright BB future. God Bless and good luck.
"You can't hit what you can't see."
Ping Bodie (NYY 1918-21) Speaking on Walter Johnson
ghoti,
Answer to your question is no.
I prefer to have him refine his mechanics - get movement on his pitches, hit his spots and train in a way that will maximize his overall conditioning and health.
At 14 - I think velocity is totally meaningless.
Just my opinion.
Answer to your question is no.
I prefer to have him refine his mechanics - get movement on his pitches, hit his spots and train in a way that will maximize his overall conditioning and health.
At 14 - I think velocity is totally meaningless.
Just my opinion.
Found this on the strenth and conditioning thread.
http://www.asmi.org/SportsMed/throwing/thrower10.html
"You can't hit what you can't see."
Ping Bodie (NYY 1918-21) Speaking on Walter Johnson
http://www.asmi.org/SportsMed/throwing/thrower10.html
"You can't hit what you can't see."
Ping Bodie (NYY 1918-21) Speaking on Walter Johnson
ghoti,
Those speeds are well above average and he's making good progress from year to year. As long as he keeps working the way he has he should continue to improve and be above average through HS.
Although, various types of training can help (long toss, weights - see the Rosenboom forum, overload/underload) some of the potential comes from things not under your control, such as how he grows and matures. All anyone can do at this point is continue to work hard and hope for the best. Your son has a far better chance than most to eventually develop a major league fastball even if he doesn't have Robert Stock type velocity today (80 mph @ 12yo).
Those speeds are well above average and he's making good progress from year to year. As long as he keeps working the way he has he should continue to improve and be above average through HS.
Although, various types of training can help (long toss, weights - see the Rosenboom forum, overload/underload) some of the potential comes from things not under your control, such as how he grows and matures. All anyone can do at this point is continue to work hard and hope for the best. Your son has a far better chance than most to eventually develop a major league fastball even if he doesn't have Robert Stock type velocity today (80 mph @ 12yo).
ghoti, Your son's velocity is progressing well. The websters have given you some good advice......keep working on the velo......get stronger and develop the body.......use good training methods. I would also recommend working on his breaking ball, change up and command. Work on fielding his position and holding runners. Develop a delivery that he can repeat.
If he has the talent, he can develop the body. Using the gun can help him to push himself to throw harder, and set goals for the future. Location, movement and deception are the three things he needs to develop to win at the higher levels of play. You don't need a gun for this, but you need to practice. Good curves take a lot of work to develop, and now is the time to get going. Same with the change, slider etc.
If he has the talent, he can develop the body. Using the gun can help him to push himself to throw harder, and set goals for the future. Location, movement and deception are the three things he needs to develop to win at the higher levels of play. You don't need a gun for this, but you need to practice. Good curves take a lot of work to develop, and now is the time to get going. Same with the change, slider etc.
Take a look at this site. look at 6th grade. See if you recognize any of these names.
http://members.cox.net/randy-dykstra/RBcamp/guns.html
Bullwinkle Jr. aka Brock Bardeen made 64 on the gun. But the names around him are what's impressive.
Bullwinkle is going commando.
http://members.cox.net/randy-dykstra/RBcamp/guns.html
Bullwinkle Jr. aka Brock Bardeen made 64 on the gun. But the names around him are what's impressive.
Bullwinkle is going commando.
Bullwinkle is computer stupid
Yes, I would keep track of velocity, but don't put too much emphasis on it this early, a good fastball is all you may need and compliment the fastball with a change-up and this can surprise you as to how many innings he can go.Most kids won't hit the ball, he will throw the ball by them, or they get weak grounders, work hard on elastics, long toss and get the running in, the greatest time spent with my son is when him and I go to the field for a quick game of catch, (Remember to wear your cup though).But keep him on a small workout routine also won't hurt, My son has a weight on a rope that he rolls up and down at full arm length in front of him, his forearms are huge at 17 years old, work shoulders and rotaters, stay loose, best of luck
"Good isn't Better, Better is Better"
"Good isn't Better, Better is Better"
Bullwinkle,
You need to give me more of a clue on those names? Sorry -
Knowledge is Power! Thank you Mavens and HSBBWEB!
You need to give me more of a clue on those names? Sorry -
Knowledge is Power! Thank you Mavens and HSBBWEB!
We never kept track of the velocity, maybe our son did, but we didn't. If your son has natural talent, it will come with maturity. I think that parents think about this issue way too early in the development stages. And 14-15 seems to be a key age when injuries can take place for any player.
There are different opinions on the subject, what works for one may not work for another.Everyone is different, some have to work at it to develop it, some just let it come naturally.
In the long run,IMO, coaches and scouts look for the pitcher that appears to throw and place his pitches with little or no effort.
There are different opinions on the subject, what works for one may not work for another.Everyone is different, some have to work at it to develop it, some just let it come naturally.
In the long run,IMO, coaches and scouts look for the pitcher that appears to throw and place his pitches with little or no effort.
Bullwinkle,
Were these max speeds? Grade is important if you're trying to see where a kid will be velocity wise early in HS, however it isn't as good an indicator of overall ability as age since there can be quite an age variation in the same grade. Wouldn't surprise me if the majority, but not all of these kids were "old" for their grade. i.e. 13yo or even 14yo 7th graders. I'd also guess that in general when the kids were young for their grade they ended up lower on the list.
I noticed that the names repeat so these are the top kids each year and the progress that they've made. The numbers seem quite reasonable and I'll go out on a limb and guess that these are actually max speeds.
My 7th grader maxes out at 63 currently which wouldn't make the list. However, if he was up against kids the same age which the sixth graders on the list probably were (12yo) he'd be on there (barely).
Were these max speeds? Grade is important if you're trying to see where a kid will be velocity wise early in HS, however it isn't as good an indicator of overall ability as age since there can be quite an age variation in the same grade. Wouldn't surprise me if the majority, but not all of these kids were "old" for their grade. i.e. 13yo or even 14yo 7th graders. I'd also guess that in general when the kids were young for their grade they ended up lower on the list.
I noticed that the names repeat so these are the top kids each year and the progress that they've made. The numbers seem quite reasonable and I'll go out on a limb and guess that these are actually max speeds.
My 7th grader maxes out at 63 currently which wouldn't make the list. However, if he was up against kids the same age which the sixth graders on the list probably were (12yo) he'd be on there (barely).
quote:
Originally posted by Bullwinkle:
Take a look at this site. look at 6th grade. See if you recognize any of these names.
Can't that Dykstra kid make up his mind what grade he's in? Or is it a Geroge Foreman thing?
How do those speeds compare to the average.....above or well above?
*****************************
"Hey dad.......how 'bout a catch?"
Most of you should know Hank Blalock. All-Star 3b from the TX Rangers. He hit in HR in last years MLB all star game to win the game.
This is a camp at a local HS. RB has been doing this camp for a long time and they keep history.
I know that Chico, J. Blalock, Heard are in the minors.Caple, Abruzzo are playing Div1. Bardeen is NLI, and watch for Plante, Arnold and the Dykstra bros.
Only Chico, Heard and Arnold are pitchers, the rest are position players.
Bullwinkle is going commando.
This is a camp at a local HS. RB has been doing this camp for a long time and they keep history.
I know that Chico, J. Blalock, Heard are in the minors.Caple, Abruzzo are playing Div1. Bardeen is NLI, and watch for Plante, Arnold and the Dykstra bros.
Only Chico, Heard and Arnold are pitchers, the rest are position players.
Bullwinkle is going commando.
Bullwinkle, No one mentioned the "impressive names around Brock",but I noticed. Three of them, Osequera, Jensen and Carpenter are teammates of my son at UCLA. The two Blalocks, Caradonna, Chico, Heard, Matt Wheatland and Abruzzo were all very high picks in the draft, with Wheatland and Heard going in the first round. Osequera is my son's roommate and Carpenter is one of his closest friends.
Chicks,
I will bet that 13 year old throwing 88 won't last much longer!
BDK
I will bet that 13 year old throwing 88 won't last much longer!
BDK
baseonballs50,
When I saw him pitch at 13 you would never have thought he was even trying to throw hard, he did it with ease. He is the #3 baseball america top prospect for 2005.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/leagues/HS_amateur/030810areacodebt.html
Knowledge is Power! Thank you Mavens and HSBBWEB!
When I saw him pitch at 13 you would never have thought he was even trying to throw hard, he did it with ease. He is the #3 baseball america top prospect for 2005.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/leagues/HS_amateur/030810areacodebt.html
Knowledge is Power! Thank you Mavens and HSBBWEB!
Chicks,
Sorry, I thought you just saw him recently, what is velocity now? Many 13 year olds around here throwing in the 80's just never made it, their arms gave out or sustained injury that prevented any more pitching.
Sorry, I thought you just saw him recently, what is velocity now? Many 13 year olds around here throwing in the 80's just never made it, their arms gave out or sustained injury that prevented any more pitching.
If you're referring to Ryan Mitchell (# 3 on that 2005 Prospects List), he is from Magnolia, Texas...not California.
He is in my son's district and he is a big and strong RHP. I didn't have the pleasure of seeing him a few years back, But I did watch the gun on him last year when he pitched against us as a sophomore. He was consistently in the 89-90 ranged and topped out at 91 or maybe 92...can't remember exactly. I have heard he has gained a couple of MPH this off season. He has a MLB pitcher's body. He'll definitely be a high draft pick in 2005, but he needs some polishing of his rough edges. I didn't see much of a breaking pitch from him. His is a big and very strong kid that projects very well. Mitchell also has the benefit of having a new coach this year, and he is a very respected and knowelageable coach in the Houston area.
He is in my son's district and he is a big and strong RHP. I didn't have the pleasure of seeing him a few years back, But I did watch the gun on him last year when he pitched against us as a sophomore. He was consistently in the 89-90 ranged and topped out at 91 or maybe 92...can't remember exactly. I have heard he has gained a couple of MPH this off season. He has a MLB pitcher's body. He'll definitely be a high draft pick in 2005, but he needs some polishing of his rough edges. I didn't see much of a breaking pitch from him. His is a big and very strong kid that projects very well. Mitchell also has the benefit of having a new coach this year, and he is a very respected and knowelageable coach in the Houston area.
A little background on the list Bullwinkle posted.... It is a compilation of radar readings taken at the end of the Rancho Bernardo HS Summer camp. Each player get two rounds of 4 pitches and the highest velocity is recorded. Make it in the top ten and you get your name on the list.
The grades listed are the one the player will be entering in the fall... This camp has been going on for about 12 years with about 250 kids each summer. It attracts a lot of the top players in San Diego. Basically, they keep track of the TOP 10 (or so) readings ever recorded in the camp. Its something for the boys to shoot for... and they love to compete.
What's also interesting are the names that are NOT on it... I'll try to dig up a few, but believe me there are a number of minor leaguers and college players that didn't make the list.
But that said... What they did at 8-14 doesn't mean a HILL of BEANS... If they have the perseverance and dedication and work ethic to continue on... then some such (Hank Blalock) can live their dream.
The grades listed are the one the player will be entering in the fall... This camp has been going on for about 12 years with about 250 kids each summer. It attracts a lot of the top players in San Diego. Basically, they keep track of the TOP 10 (or so) readings ever recorded in the camp. Its something for the boys to shoot for... and they love to compete.
What's also interesting are the names that are NOT on it... I'll try to dig up a few, but believe me there are a number of minor leaguers and college players that didn't make the list.
But that said... What they did at 8-14 doesn't mean a HILL of BEANS... If they have the perseverance and dedication and work ethic to continue on... then some such (Hank Blalock) can live their dream.
Leftycoachtx,
You are correct, he played for the Houston Sox when I saw him in OK - USSSA World Series Major division. The baseball america list had his hometown/state incorrectly. I also was curious about his arm condition. Thanks.
Knowledge is Power! Thank you Mavens and HSBBWEB!
You are correct, he played for the Houston Sox when I saw him in OK - USSSA World Series Major division. The baseball america list had his hometown/state incorrectly. I also was curious about his arm condition. Thanks.
Knowledge is Power! Thank you Mavens and HSBBWEB!
I have kept up with my sons velocity. At age 9- 55 10- 62 11- 65 12- 69 13- 73 current at 14- 77. He is an 8th grader and his primary posistion is catcher. I have kept up with his pop times since he was 13 once he started playing exclusively on the "real field". At 13 2.4 current 2.2-2.15. I think it really helps give the kids feedback and gives them something to shoot for. I think that you should put more stock in what speed your son can consistently throw with proper mechanics rather that just seeing how hard he can max out at. One kid might be able to touch 80 but can only cruise at 74-75. While another kid can only touch 77 but can cruise at 75 with very sound mechanics. It really does matter what a kid can throw at 14, if he has a work ethic and is committed to continue to work hard at improving his game. But you are right it does not matter what he throws at 14 if he is not willing to work. Dont get caught up in the radar gun and get discouraged or too high depending on what the reading is. Just because he is throwing 80 at 14 does not mean he is destined to throw 90 plus when he is 18. And the same can be said about the guy that is throwing 70 at 14. It does not mean that he will not throw hard when he is 18. Kids progress at different intervals and grow more than others. I do feel that the over riding X factor is the kids desire to work year round.