Anyone Notice

Well said Clevelandad, prototipes doesn't exist when the hart is big and the work is hard.

A few weeks ago when the Texas Rangers were on the wrong side of a no-hitter, the pitcher didn't throw anything over 90 mph... encouraging for those boys who are effective pitchers without high velocity...

Well said lattes and gentlemen!

I think it was the Dallas Cowboys back in the 70s that tried to turn drafting into a scientific procedure. They would crunch the numbers on height, weight, body fat, 40 times and even started tracking kids who won the Punt, Pass and Kick competition when they were 12 or so.

Somewhere something got lost……can the kid play. Can you count on him in the tough situations? Can he lead?

I must admit, If I’m a scout and I see two kids who appear to have the same level of ability and one is 6ft 3 and the other is 5ft 11 and my job is riding on it I probably go with the bigger kid. Is it right – no, is it safer for me - yes

Well, there seems to be a definite trend lately to smaller pitchers. My theory is that the smaller pitchers have gotten to the higher levels by being (percentage-wise) good whereas the taller pitchers got to that level by being (percentage-wise) either good or projectable.

I love to watch his delivery but here is my theory.

He's max effort guy with an unusual delivery. It will be interesting to see how long it takes for MLB hitters to figure it out before they begin pounding the ball. And to see if he remains healthy.

JMO.

Lincecum is not big. He throws big though. Righties his size are successful. While I do not know much about his success, I am guessing genetics play a large role in his velocity. Some > 6 footers just throw 90+. There is one on my sons team, who I'll be interested to see how he does in June 2008. He is really good.

Matt DeSalvo has earned his shot. He has put up very good stats. I can't remember a non-drafted free agent, non-replacement player, starting a big league game. He was an excellent college pitcher being named 2003 Small College All-American P, Small College Player of the Year.

CD,
Thank you for starting this thread. Having a bit more than a passing interest in DIII baseball, I have been aware of and read a lot about DeSalvo along the way.
If I recall right, he was absolutely dominating his first couple of years at Marietta. His strikeout numbers were unbelieveable. However, he had an injury(knee I think) and used a redshirt year and had a bit of a struggle coming back.
He ended up using his 4 years of eligibility, plus a redshirt year. As a result, he fell into a unique situation with the draft. Ended up being a free agent for those weeks after he graduated from college and before the draft. Signed with the Yankees as a free agent.
He has never been confused with Phillip Hughes but he clearly has shown dedication, drive and perseverance and finally began to convince people that he can get people out in professional ball.
You are right in pointing people to DeSalvo as a story of overcoming odds and obstacles. Hopefully, this bit of history will allow some to appreciate him even more.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
He's max effort guy with an unusual delivery. It will be interesting to see how long it takes for MLB hitters to figure it out before they begin pounding the ball. And to see if he remains healthy.

JMO.

That's what everyone says....

He got pounded pretty good in his first game. But what makes him any more susceptable to getting pounded than any other MLB pitcher?

His max effort is probably close to 100mph. He doesn't have to throw that hard, but he probably could.....and for a long time....he's been doing it already.

I didn't think he threw that hard. Max effort only means he is throwing at the hardest he most likely will ever throw. If he is throwing that hard, sooner or later he will drop off velocity, not increase. Starting this early means he will get enough experience now to learn how to pitch to Big leaguers as he matures.
What he does have that most don't, is the attitude to get where he is.

I say kudos to a pitcher just out of college to get to the show. With lack of pitching all over the league, size means nothing, getting the job done does. I just hope that he wasn't brought up too soon and remains healthy.

He most likely got pounded for lack of experience and jitters, but everyone needs to start somewhere.

Every pitcher will get hit, it's how you handle it and move on that counts.

"Did not throw that hard" ???????????????

The kid was pumping 96 plus from the git go

I think he relied too much on the "heater" adn not using his chnage of sppeds enough

Someone said 100mph, I just said I didn't think he threw that hard.

I saw consistently 96 to 98---that isnt throwing hard?

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
Tim Lincecum is less than 6 ft. tall and is a righty.... for you youngsters, don't listen to the naysayers...

Lincecum is probably something like 5'10"

As I said a couple of weeks ago, while some scouts would never look at a pitcher under 6'5", because taller pitchers are supposedly (and I do mean supposedly) more durable, the fact is that there have been many great, long-lived pitchers who have been relatively short.

- Mike Marshall 5'8"
- Pedro Martinez 5'11"
- Bob Feller 6'0"
- Greg Maddux 6'0"
- Juan Marichal 6'0"
- Jamie Moyer 6'0"
- Warren Spahn 6'0"
- Bob Gibson 6'1"
- Tom Glavine 6'1"
- Tom Seaver 6'1"
- Don Sutton 6'1"
- Sandy Koufax 6'2"
- Nolan Ryan 6'2"
- Johnny Sain 6'2"

...and on and on.

Some of this is due to arm slot. A short guy who throws the ball from a high arm slot can actually release the ball significantly higher than does a tall guy who throws sidearm.

Using the Lahman database, I have studied this in some detail and have found no correlation between a pitcher's height and...

- Longevity (measured in career length)
- Effectivess (measured in wins and career ERA)
- Durability (measured in innings pitched)
- Fastball quality

quote:

Originally posted by Bum:
Well, there seems to be a definite trend lately to smaller pitchers. My theory is that the smaller pitchers have gotten to the higher levels by being (percentage-wise) good whereas the taller pitchers got to that level by being (percentage-wise) either good or projectable.

Excellent point.

Shorter guys have to actually learn how to pitch (e.g. deception and changing speeds). Taller guys may never learn how to actually pitch because they can just blow guys away for most of their lives.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
I love to watch his delivery but here is my theory. He's max effort guy with an unusual delivery. It will be interesting to see how long it takes for MLB hitters to figure it out before they begin pounding the ball. And to see if he remains healthy.

The max effort part bothers me much more than Tim Lincecum's mechanics (and any possible resulting injury risk). The same thing is true for Felix Hernandez.

I think max effort guys are more vulnerable than average to Rick Ankiel-type control problems.

If you look at HOFers, it would be hard to describe any of them as max effort guys.

quote:

Originally posted by RobV:
His max effort is probably close to 100mph. He doesn't have to throw that hard, but he probably could.....and for a long time....he's been doing it already.

Sunday night, it did look like he had dialed it back a bit. He was less leap-y.

But he was still cruising in the mid-90s.

Dad04,
Gorman Heimueller, who I believe is still pitching coordinator for the Phillies, probably lot's of others.

quote:

Originally posted by thepainguy:

quote:

Originally posted by RobV:
His max effort is probably close to 100mph. He doesn't have to throw that hard, but he probably could.....and for a long time....he's been doing it already.

Sunday night, it did look like he had dialed it back a bit. He was less leap-y.

But he was still cruising in the mid-90s.

I've read that he was clocked once in spring training this year at 101mph.

I didn't say he threw 100 in this last game. I meant he is capable of throwing that hard if he wants to.

Nice luxury to have!

quote:

Originally posted by RobV:
I've read that he was clocked once in spring training this year at 101mph.

If that is the caser, height has nothing to do with why he is out there!

Height can be an artificial advantage. True, if a 6'3" guy plants 100% of his body height this, combined with the downward plane of his pitch, should result in a very effective pitcher (all else equal).

One thing I've noticed, though--and this is an unscientific observation I admit--is there seems to be a negative correlation between height and stride length. That is, the shorter guys tend to stride longer, on average. Anyone agree or disagree? If true, the advantage one might assume a taller pitcher might have (release point further from the rubber) is offset by the greater stride length of the shorter pitcher, resulting in a wash.