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11 replies

Appeal play? Run Scores?

M maysfan100+ posts
So, I'm watching a college game today and we had a strange play. I had to come back to my roots at HS Baseball web for the informed answer even though my guy graduates college next month! Here's the situation.

Batting team is down one run in the 9th. Runners on second and third, one out. Batter hits a fly ball to right field. Catch and the runners advance -- runner from third scores the tying run (we think) runner from second advance to third. But, the catcher throws the ball to the pitcher, who, when not in a pitching motion but on the mound, throws the ball to second base, and the runner is called out for leaving the base early for the third out. So, does the run count?

I'll give everyone a chance to chime in before I tell you the umpires decision. I will say that the game was protested <---- there is a surprise.

(And for those who watch college ball, both coaches thought the umpires got it wrong, however, neither was tossed)
Say Hey!
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coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
Run should score because only run doesn't count is on a force out and this is an appeal play.

I may be wrong but it sounds like this was not a correct way to ask for an appeal at the college level. I am thinking that the pitcher has to engage the rubber then step off and ask for the appeal this way with the ball being live.
M maysfan100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by coach2709:
Run should score because only run doesn't count is on a force out and this is an appeal play.

I may be wrong but it sounds like this was not a correct way to ask for an appeal at the college level. I am thinking that the pitcher has to engage the rubber then step off and ask for the appeal this way with the ball being live.


See, this is why I'm a fan and you are a coach. Your description of the pitcher's actions are on the money, mine was not. And your response is what the umpires ruled.
F 3FingeredGlove1,000+ posts
maysfan,
Are you sure you aren't leaving something out? As long as the ball stays live, the only requirement for a successful appeal for failure to retouch is to get the ball to the base before the runner gets there.

If the ball has become dead, then the ball needs to be made live again.

NCAA 8-6b:
"(1) The procedure for a base-running appeal play is as follows:
(a) A live ball is returned to the base, and
(b) If the ball is dead, the pitcher must receive a ball from the umpire and then toe the rubber. After the umpire calls “Play,” the pitcher then may legally step back off the rubber and return the ball to the base."
Michael S. TaylorMichael S. Taylor1,000+ posts
The way the Op was stated the run should score but the out is recorded at second for the third out. As 3 finger says, the only reason for it to return to the rubber is if the ball was dead and had to be put back in play. This doesn't sound like the case. The outfielder could have thrown to the base directly and bypassed the pitcher completely.
The whole going to the rubber and stepping off with a live ball is a myth that has been around for years. It is not necessary.
Now if the ball was dead for some reason I missed in the OP then the apeal at second wasn't valid because the wasn't live, but it also doesn't mean he can't make the ball live and then appeal. That's the other appeal myth. It is believed by many that trying it with a dead ball negates the ability to appeal after the ball is live.
You were the victim of one of two appeal myths.
Midlo DadMidlo Dad10,000+ posts
The issue is not whether you did it before the play ended or via an appeal. The issue is that the play on the runner who left 2nd early is not a force play, though many people commonly mistake it for one. It is a "time play".

The fact is, the runner from third scored before the third out was made, so the run counts. There is an exception to this rule for when the third out is recorded on a force play -- then the timing is irrelevant. But since this is not a force play, the run counts.

Suppose the RF had simply caught the ball and then thrown a laser to 2nd. The guy from 3rd, seeing there's no attempt being made on him, trots towards home. If the out is made at 2nd before the runner touches home, no run scores.

It's all a question of which event happened first.
Midlo DadMidlo Dad10,000+ posts
No difference which base is involved. The only time it would make a difference is if the appeal is on the same runner who scored. If he's out, the run comes off the board.

Not sure what situation you're referring to in the latter half of your post, but whether or not a lead runner tagged up would have no bearing on whether or not the trail runner was forced. In any event, if the batter's fly is caught, there can be no force because he's out and thus base runners are not compelled to advance.
M maysfan100+ posts
All of you and this board are great. Your comments are on the money and consistent with the decision.

I went back to talk with a few folks who were also at the game. Time was never called. The ball came into the catcher who then threw the ball to the pitcher (on the mound but not on the rubber or even close to facing home plate) who tossed the ball to the shortshop on second and the out was called on the appeal of leaving early.

As you have described, the umpires correctly called the play, even though the team in the field officially protested the game.

In the end, it was all moot, because in the bottom of the 9th, the defensive team scored a run to win the game.

Still, it was an interesting 5 minutes.

Thanks everyone! For those of you with players heading to play in college ball, let me say... hold on to your hats, because the ride only gets better.

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