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I just wanted to first say how much I appreciate a good plate umpire.  We have 2 in the official association that I if we have them, the game is going to go smoothly and especially the strike zone is going to be consistent.

 

Now that being said;  there are some that need to find another line of work.  And it is never the young guys that are the problem.  Let me give you some instances and get some feedback.  Sorry this is a long post but I figured it would be better than 10 posts.

 

1--Imagine my amusement as a 1st year JV coach when i walk out to home plate for the coaches meeting and the umpire who was near 60, tells us, "coaches I have a big strike zone, arm pits to top of the shin".  Now I loved it because my pitcher in that game was a high ball pticher, however my first thought was, in what rule is that strike zone because it definitely isn't FED.  Should I have said something, I am sort of a stickler for rules but I didn't figure it would make a difference..

 

2--So later that season, we have premadonna ref (again in a JV game).  I have a bench player late in the game we are up but only be a few runs, I had brought him into to bunt because that is about the only thing he could do when hitting.  The home team scoreboard wasn't working so I had to keep asking the guy the count partially because I forgot my clicker, but you couldn't tell what he was holding up when he indicated the count at 2-1 so my batter squares to bunt, but pulls back,   3-1. Next pitch, squares for a bunt, ball is right down the midde, umpire makes sound like it was a strike but calls a ball, I thought it was a strike, the batter thought it was a strike and just stood there, umpire never made a signal nor did he verbalize for runner to take 1st, so while my 8th grade batter was standing ready to take the pitch, called him out for not taking a base.  Needless to say, I was not happy.  What do you suggest in this situation.

 

3--2nd season as JV coach.  Different games same week.

Game 1:  runner on 3rd less than 2 outs,  fly ball runner tags, cf makes suprisingly good throw home, in the process my runner doesn't slide and makes contact with the catcher catcher never actually tagged.  PU calls my guy out because he didn't slide and tells me that he could throw the kid out but it is JV and it was more an "accident" after conferring with the BU(I'm fine with this explanation, I teach all of my BR to slide into a contested plate so I'm not sure what my kid was thinking so I'm fine with the out, good teaching moment.)

 

Game 2:   Two days later the BU from game 1 is back but not PU, working with a new BU.  My guys are in the field,  opponent has man on 2nd (10th grader, big boy).  For some reason the BR was stealing on the pitch, batter makes contact, ball goes to my 8th grade 100pd soaking wet 3rd baseman who steps into the baseline at the base, after getting the ball, the runner goes full speed and extends his left hand and right forearm into my 3rd baseman's chest, knocking him a mile but causing him to lose the ball and never make the tag.  The PU ruled that the kid made incidental contact and left him on 3rd.  I lose my mind, somehow manage to not get thrown out when the umpire tells me it wasn't malicious, no one got hurt.

 

 

Last Situation and this may be the wildest thing I have ever seen.

 

Our varsity is playing at a major district rival who doesn't have lights.  At this point my state didn't have much of a suspended game rule.  Well it is a dog fight from the beginning, going into the top of the 7th we were tied.  We are able to score a run to take the lead and it is getting dark really fast, there probably isn't more than an inning of daylight left to play.  At this point, the opposing team starts stalling.  The opposing coach comes out to talk to pitcher 2x and then makes a pitching change, new pitcher comes in we are at the bottom of our lineup and wanting to get the game over if possible so he is told to swing at everything so he strikes out for the 2nd out,  Opposing coaches comes out and talks, pitcher intentionally walks our guy, coach comes in makes a pitching change.  Before the pitcher even begins his windup, our coach tells the guy on first to run, the pitcher just stares at him,  he stops on 2nd, our coach tells our runner to run until they tag us.  Our guys makes the turn to home, and runs 2/3 the way down the line, when the pitcher decides to throw the ball to the catcher, who steps to the side and basically motions to our guy to score.  Gladly our guy went ahead and scored.  Next batter up, our guy bunts and steps on the plate and is declared out.  Up by 2 with our closer coming out, we struck out the side and the game was over.   I was appalled by the entire ending of the game, mostly because the opposing coach was wanting the game to go back to the score at the bottom of the 6th and the game would likely have been a tie as it was at the end of the season and there may not have been a chance to make complete it.  Personally I never thought getting an out would be so difficult.

 

I would appreciate any comments of what the coach should do in the first examples especially with the runners not sliding.  I feel that this is too open to interpretation and with all the bells and whistles for coaches because of concussions, something needs to be made more simple to call in that situation.

 

 

 

 

 

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When my son was in LL I assured him the umpiring would improve just like players improve at older levels. It turns out I lied about high school ball. The games were at 3:30. Most of the umpires were 65-75 years old. Some needed glasses and wouldn't wear them. How do you deal with it? You accept it. The umpiring in travel ball was good starting at 14u. These umpires were the best high school umps who could only do nights and weekends.

First off, it's sad that you only have 2 local officials that you find acceptable to do plate work for your games.  Must be a very small association.

 

That being said I'll take a shot at your other offerings.

 

Situation 1 - I'm not sure of the relevance of being near 60 (I'm 62) but regardless of age no umpire should ever offer to the coaches what "his" strike zone is whether it be large, small or otherwise.  There's a definition of the zone in the rule book and any self respecting umpire is always trying to call it that way.  Umpires are human and no two physically see the zone exactly the same way.  However, to announce the zone that you intend to call is just bad form.  Now, should you have said something?  I doubt it.  It probably wouldn't have done you any good anyway.

 

Situation 2 - Not sure what you mean by a "premadonna ref" but I'm guessing you mean the type who feels he should be catered to as the controller of the game.  Sorry you got one like that, if that's what you mean.

Anyway, if the umpire is doing things properly, he verbalizes the count as well as indicating what it is.  This prevents any misunderstanding.  And calling the batter out for not going to first base, well, I have no idea where he got that ruling from.

 

In these first two situations I would have advised you to contact the assigner for this association and explain your view of the situations.  Best you could do is ask that these umpires not be assigned to your games in the future.

 

Situation 3 - (Game 1) FED Rules clearly state that a runner is never required to slide but if he does slide it must be a legal slide.  Although he isn't required to slide he is required to attempt to avoid the fielder who is in the act of making a play on him.  In your scenario the runner has a choice of: slide, give up, retreat or try to go around the catcher.  The plate ump calling him out simply because he didn't slide is just wrong.  He could have called him out for illegal contact for not trying to avoid or malicious contact; in which case he would also be ejected.  Sounds like this umpire just isn't too clear on the rules.

 

(Game 2)  There are two things very wrong here.  First, if there are two umpires, the base umpire should have been making the call on the play at third base, not the plate ump.  The plate ump would have nothing to say about the situation unless asked by the base ump for some info and then the base ump would still make the final decision.

Second, if the play transpired as you described (runners hand extended and forearm to the chest) then you clearly would have malicious contact.  Runner is out and ejected with other runners retuned to time of interference base.

 

OK, the final situation.  Clearly the home team coach is employing some gamesmanship.  You can't do anything about legal conferences and pitcher changes.  It's up to the plate ump to see that these don't take an unnecessary amont of time; and you didn't mention that they did.  Best you could have done was this:  after the intentional walk (ball is dead); wait for the ball to be put back in play and have your runner at first base just jog off the field.  It's called "abandoned effort" and the runner would be called out.

 

Remember, as PIAAUMP has said many times.  You don't always get the most talented or most experienced umpire, just the most available.

 

 

Last edited by pilsner

OK, well there i a lot here to get to, but Ill take a shot at it....

 

As per Situation #1.

The first thing we should discuss is the reality where there is a chronic shortage of umpires for all levels its just not possible to have enough Umpires to be able to do games at 3-4 PM while holding regular jobs. Assignors, understandably, will then use umpires whose schedules can accommodate the start times.

 

I have been a HS certified umpire for many years, but working a full schedule of HS games has never been possible due to the scheduling difficulties with my full time job. There are very few HS fields in my area who have lights to do night games, or the ground crew assets to get a field ready in any adverse weather conditions.

 

I have seen top varsity games go to retirees and rookies while Saturday am JV ball be done by NCAA level umpires.....all because of starting schedule timing.....

 

One of the things you need to understand about HS umpiring, is that often you don't get the "best umpire".... you get "the most available umpire"...

 

The last point is that yes, there are umpires out there that should not be doing the job....if it was easy anyone could do it and they cant....but because of the chronic shortage of umpires, they keep showing up.....and get games....

 

The OP stated your game was JV and in the hierarchy of games assigned the JV games often go to the lesser qualified. BTW 60 is not old in HS umpiring.... some of our guys are in their 70's and still doing ball, not the best idea, but it is what it is.....

 

As to the strike zone comment, it sounds to me as if it was wrongly chosen words of a fairly commonly held idea..... that swinging the bats and putting the ball in play is better for developing players than JV and freshman ball 2.5 hour walk fests.....all within reason of course........

 

The old "nose to toes and box to box" joke about the strike zone is the absurd example.....   in a JV game, the best tack to take is enjoy the benefit the liberal zone gives your pitchers and send your players to the plate swinging... the plate meeting isn't where you discuss the zone......

 

Situation #2

Never call an umpire REF.............we aren't referees.....small point to some, but a player/coach or fan who calls the umpire a ref has just unknowingly transmitted a negative impression to the umpire about that participants knowledge of the game.....you might as well say that you think the hands are part of the bat or ties go to the runner....

 

so Primadonna maybe, REF never.....

 

In all baseball situations, it is the teams responsibility to know what the situation is in the ball game....balls/strikes/outs etc......next time don't forget your indicator...in your example the umpire "calls the pitch" (makes some sound) and does not signal......we don't point the batter to first......your batter should know that unless he called a strike and signaled strike he should go to first......as a coach I'm surprised you didn't coach him to do so.... 

 

Now the error is calling the player out for not going to the base....after a few seconds of us staring at each other, I would have said take your base.....

 

Situation # 3,,,

There is no "must slide" rule in HS baseball...if he slides it must be a legal slide...

Contact is inevitable in any baseball....including NFHS officiated ball.....there will be times when runners/fielders and the ball will all have to occupy the same space.... the question then comes into is it legal or illegal contact and is such contact malicious.

 

Its a good idea to slide into a contested base as a legal slide then takes any decision of malicious contact determination out of the question.....agreed good teaching moment.....

 

Game 2.

Again contact is inevitable in any baseball....including NFHS officiaited ball.....there will be times when runners/fielders and the ball will all have to occupy the same space.... the question then comes into is it legal or illegal contact and is such contact malicious.

 

The size issue is worth mentioning if not for just the fact that it should not be a consideration in the scenario posted above. IN HS baseball, the players in question can be anywhere from a  5'5" 150 freshman to a 6'2' 218 Senior.....however in situations involving players, there always seem to be extra angst when the runner is larger than the fielder... and never the other way around....

 

The question is was the contact legal or legal and was it malicious.....that falls on umpire judgment....from your writing, Id say it was...but....I wasn't there...

 

Rule on the play....legal slide or not...malicious contact or not....simple as that....

 

Final Situation

 

Gamesmanship will always be with us in sports......its up to the umpire to make sure that no one is gaining an advantage not in line with the rules....but as long as what the coach was doing was legal, there isn't much that can be done....except hold them to the letter of the law....

 

I understand your concern about collisions, but unfortunately a large amount of baseball falls on the judgment of the umpire, there just isn't any way to make a rule so ironclad that actually could be effective....again contact is inevitable in any baseball....including NFHS officiated ball.....there will be times when runners/fielders and the ball will all have to occupy the same space.... the question then comes into is it legal or illegal contact and is such contact malicious.

 

That's what you pay us for....

 

hope this helps...

 

 

 

 

 

 

The other factor that goes into "best available" is that if there are umpires that are relatively young enough to have time to advance and the skills to show potential, as well as the availability, they aren't going to be on sub-varsity games (in most cases.) They are going to be on as high a level as their skills allow as often as possible. College takes precedence over high school, and varsity takes precedence over sub-varsity. In most associations, that will then leave you with the guys that have reached their peaks.

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