April Fools!!!

CSG,

Do you really know how many kids on that list paid a single cent to any organization or do you have an axe to grind. There are many players on that list that play for competing organizations in the summer, why would they make the list if what you are saying is true. Where's your list?

quote:

Do you really know how many kids on that list paid a single cent to any organization or do you have an axe to grind.

Ballfan – Not once in my post did I bring up any summer organization. All I am saying is that the Sun-Times should do their own reporting.

Please read before you type!

Sean Duncan is the writer for the Sun Times, including the list, and the publisher for PBR. I would expect similar results in his predictions.

CSG,

I did read the post and you contend that players who pay a particular organization (PBR) will get mentioned in the listing. Sean Duncan works for the sun times and he posted the list and your axe is that people bought onto that list, which is not true. Sorry you don't agree with who was listed, but to say that this is an April fools joke is insulting to the kids who are mentioned.

I personally know a few High School baseball coaches in the area . ( will not name any names ) . Each of them has told me that Duncan does not have much credibility as far as they are concerned . They take his lists, rankings , etc , with a grain of salt .

Just thought i would give you guys a perspective from a coaches point of view .

Sean has a difficult job covering HS baseball and the many talented kids that are playing at various high schools. I am not going down that road of trying to defend him or his rankings, however the guy works his tail off at his job and helps a lot of kids along the way.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Nobody:
I personally know a few High School baseball coaches in the area . ( will not name any names ) . Each of them has told me that Duncan does not have much credibility as far as they are concerned . They take his lists, rankings , etc , with a grain of salt .

Just thought i would give you guys a perspective from a coaches point of view .

High School coaches may feel that way, but as discussed many times before, local college coaches give some merit to PBR rankings as most of the rankings are mentioned when they announce the signing of a new recruit.

Colleges might allude to the pbr ranking as part of the accolades listed as part of the players bio but i highly doubt they use it as a basis for their recruiting . Perfect game is a much more reputable source . PG has PROFESSIONAL scouts that rank and evaluate these players nationally as well as by state. A more accurate , reputable and unbiased system . Most higher level college coaches will pay more attention to PG than pbr IMO .

My son is on the list and he has never gone to Slammers, played on Top Tier, or bought a subscribtion to PBR. I love the magazine for what it does for the kids.

I believe Sean works hard and does a great job. I also believe that NO list can be accurate. That is why scouts often go by radar guns and stop watches. Things you can quantify. Even the MLB All-star game has controversy, and all the games can be seen and all the stats are accurate. There is no way to be "right" about everything. There is no "right". It is subjective. I do NOT beleive Sean is influenced by money. I believe he is a honest, hardworking guy who does the best he can.

I do believe that the more you see a kid the more you may like him and be influenced. That is human nature. So, if you see a lot more of a guy, he may be more likely to be rated. That is NOT "paying cash to be on a list", and the two should not be confused.

Full disclosure, my son did go to a PBR showcase.

I did not intend to imply that the players on the list all paid to be on it, I’m sure every player on the list is very talented and deserving. Lists and rankings are what they are an opinion and are always open for debate.

All I’m suggesting is that that the Sun-Times and Mr. Duncan might want to change the By Line on these type of articles. Example: By Sean Duncan of the Prep Baseball Report.

And no, I do not have an axe to grind. Yes my son (2011) has attended one PBR Showcase and I do have a subscription to the magazine.

HEY CSG!!!!

http://scoutmaster.typepad.com.../an_axe_to_grind.jpg



Look familiar?

bballdad1954 - Very well said; I totally agree with you. Why do we worry about who is or is not on the list? It neither adds or detracts what these kids do on the field. Nobody has called our house to rescind the offers to our son because he was not on the list.
Look, one of the most deserving catchers in the northern 'burbs, AJ Nathan of Highland Park was not mentioned, yet he was predicted by PBR to be the MVP of the CSL north. AJ batted .417 last year (.700 with RISP) and threw out 23 base stealers. His pop time is at or below 1.9. Yes, AJ has also attended a PBR showcase, as did my son.
AJ is a big reason HP is off to a 4-0 season.

BBfan

On the flipside of the situation you mentioned , I noticed a name on duncans list that didnt even make all-conference last year as a junior , but yet somehow managed to find its way as a top 100 player in the area . Certainly makes you wonder .

With all due respect to AJ who was allstate honorable mention, my son hit .453 last year and threw 3 sub 1.95 at PBR. It will be interesting to see who has a better year this year in the CSL.

Mr. Nobody,

Is making the all conference team as a junior part of the criteria for being included on this list? I bet we could come up with a lot of very talented kids who went on the play major div 1 baseball who did not make the all conference team as a junior.

Also, I would not throw out batting averages on this because, as we all know, the pitching and defense vary significantly from one conference to another. I read about players in smaller conferences hitting the cover off of the ball all of the time and then I see them play a 4A team and it is time to bring out the golden sombreros.

It is however curious that there are names on the list (not a lot of them, but they are there) of players who did not even see the field as juniors... so is this the list of the top 100 HIGH SCHOOL players or the top 100 high school AGE players who happened to show up at a showcase/tournament, etc.

Don't get me wrong - there are lots and lots of good players on the list. But those are the easy ones. Anybody could name the top 50-60. And obviously we can all differ on whether a particular player should or should not be there. But it's when you start seeing names of players from teams in your own conference who you know for a fact have yet to compete on a varsity field that you have to wonder how that happens. All-conference shouldn't make or break you for any list as that's rather subjective, but the fact that you've never yet played for your varsity team should have SOME bearing on whether you can be identified as one of the 100 best.

bballdad1954,
I don't mean any disrespect to your son at all. He is a great guy and great player. As you know, I look forward to he & Jon competing against each other and then playing together this summer. I love talking to him at sessions;Jon usually came right after Josh for hitting lessons and Josh has caught Jon many times during pitching lessons. My point is, everyone always gripes about Duncan but who else is attempting to do the job he is doing and do it as well as he does. My other view is,it is interesting to read in the latest PBR that he picks AJ as a potential MVP of the league (the season needs to be played first!) but makes no mention of him as a top player. Both Josh & AJ have terrific arms and batting ability.

Yes - I happen to believe that its a no- brainer . If a kid isnt even considered to be one of the top 16 position players in his own conference ..as a junior .. --voted on by the coaches of that conference -- how or why should he be considered to be one of the top 100 in the area ? Has nothing to do if the player might go on to play D1 or not . How can you be considered to be one of the best in the state --if not even in your own conference ?? Makes no sense whatsoever to me . JMO

Ballfan --Just exactly what is the criteria ??

It has to be fairly obvious that all - conference would carry a good amount of weight . If not ..then you would be suggesting that the coaches of that conference do not know how to judge and evaluate the talent properly .

My kid didn't make all conferance last year. 2 games in the loss column made the differance between 3 all conferance awards, and 6. The awards went to two seniors and Dietrich. Don't know if he would have made it if 6 were available, however there are lots of reasons how many and why all conferance awards are awarded.

Tuzi

Your sons situation is obviously one of the exceptions .

Those who make all - conference have to have the numbers to back up the selection . The kid i speak of did not have the numbers ...therefore no AC selection . I found it very very suspicious, curious , that he was on Duncans list . Cant really say more about it other than it raised the eyebrows of a few others in the know who i spoke with .

Maybe the F.B.I should investigate

RRF: the numbers relate because the kids are in the same conference Central Suburban North, and play almost all the same teams.

It will be interesting to see haow each kid competes this year, that's all I was saying.

As a sophomore our coach was trying to get two seniors on the all-conference team. He had only two slots due to the record. The other coaches in the conference gave us three to give my son the honor.

I agree with Mr, Nobody. To be one of the top 100, you need to get some props from the schools that see you the most....your conference. While there may be a couple of kids that get slighted, we are only talking 100 kids in the state. Most on the list should have some recogntion form the people who see them in the pressure of baseball games that count.

I have also heard some deserving all-conference selections are left off due to bad blood with certain organizations. That can be part of the wrap this list gets. It is by nature a subjective list, but personal feelings can't be involved. The discalaimer about PBR seems like a good idea to give the list some additional perspective. Full diclosure never hurts.

Again. Sean is an excellent hard worker that does an excellent job for the kids in the area. But, the list can never be "perfect" and all humans have some biases for whatever reson. That's why things like all-conference accolades help. It is more than one man's opinion that the kid can play. Coaches that have seen him have input.

Mr. Nobody,

All conference should be selected based on the numbers you put up in a particular year, not on your potential. There are many great players that have a down year and are not selected, however this shouldn't prevent them from making the projected list the following year. The number of all conference selections is based on the number of conference wins for that school in many of the conferences. If your team struggled, you have less kids to put up.

How many kids in the "top 100" would one team have?

Ballfan

Exactly my point . These types of players are suppossed to put up all- conference type numbers to back up the potential . Baseball is a numbers game . I dont buy the excuse of a school only getting 3 AC slots due to # of wins. If thats the case then said player better be one of those 3 . A top 100 type player shouldnt need 6 slots in order to get on the AC squad . A players " potential " should already be determined into his junior year .
This is one of the reasons that many of the H.S. coaches that i know in the area dont pay a lick of attention to Duncan , his magazine or his lists .
They too , like many others have started to catch on to what its all about.

Someone mentioned to me that in the latest issue of pbr that Duncan was moaning about parents who gripe about his ratings and listings. Doesnt he realize that this is the monster that he himself has created ?? And now that he has gotten his endeavor off the ground and running in the last few years and making $$$ ...i found it very funny that he is now rampantly complaining about some of the effects of it. What did he think was going to happen ?

Wouldn't the fact that the PBR list has no number's criteria make it more legit than an all conference selection that is restricted by numbers based on where the team finished?

Mr. Nobody, Sean "rampantly complaining". That's one of the funniest things I've read here. If you believe that then I've got some lakefront property to sell you nice and cheap. What he's probably laughing about is the annual attempt to discredit him, his efforts and his magazine right here in this forum. He does the best he can and I think it's pretty darned good.

As for this all-conference discussion I'll throw in my 2 cents. In 2007, Deerfield catcher Cam McConnell wasn't named to the CSL all-conference team. Anyone who followed the conference knew he was the best catch and throw guy in the area, and could handle the bat as well. How he couldn't have been AC remains a mystery to me, regardless of what Deerfield's record was that season. The following year he's the starting catcher at Notre Dame and doing even better this season. So much for unbiased talent evaluators among some HS coaches.

Call this sour grapes or not, go to his splash page and check out the daily recaps. You mean the only games worth reviewing have players wearing pbr paraphanalia? Now maybe there are just that many kids who have paid to be rated or those are the only programs worth mentioning, but somehow i doubt it. i also realize from a business perspective it does him no good to paste a bunch of blank spaces without pbr clients. I think the people who infueunce and grant college roster spots go by more than a pbr rating and actually go and watch games.

Rosy

You got your opinion

Ive got mine ---which is based on PERSONAL EXPERIENCE in dealing with these guys

The H.S . guys i know and have talked to -have theirs .

He leaves himself open for debate/ criticism by virtue of all the behind the scenes nonsense that goes on between him and his tt cohorts . Many of the posters here are unaware that this stuff actually exists. If i were to elaborate , you would most likely be the first one to deny it exists and then proceed to complain to the moderator . Im sure i would get in trouble here on the board by the powers that be .

Fathers with players that will soon be coming to play in the high school ranks should be made aware to not buy into all the pbr hype . It makes for good reading material , but thats about it .

Well, all those Dads with kids in junior high can now rest easy.

Surprised you are not a door to door salesman hawking pbr issues for Duncan

If a pre-req for this list is being all-conferance, does that mean that no first year varsity players should be on this list?

I believe its fair to say that numbers and potential go hand in hand . I never said anything about ac being a pre- req ..just used it as a point of reference for the one kid who i questioned being on the list...even though it does seem to make sense to me

there is no listed criteria or pre reqs . potential is pretty subjective ..numbers dont lie

I know it's foolish to poke my head into a beehive, but ... it's rather silly to use all-conference as a measuring stick to whether a player is good or not. There are countless cases of players who didn't make all-conference but were the top players in the state. Two years ago, when Casey Crosby was a junior, he was hurt for most of his junior year and no one had really heard of him. But that summer he came out and was pitching 90-93 and later became a high draft pick. I don't think Joe Benson was all-conference as a junior and he was the No. 1 player in the state and was drafted in the second round. Or how about Jeff Jackson, a junior at Wauconda. Up until this spring, he hadn't even played a game of high school baseball, but yet he is already committed to Arizona State. ...

Pbr

Last i checked you still post statistics next to a players name in your magazine . Why even bother posting stats then ..to take it a step further ? Just rank players based on what you saw of them at one of your showcases and leave the stats out of it .

All conference is based on numbers for the most part . Conference is the most important part of the players season . That accolade is important enough to the coaches who vote on it and the players who make it. Never said it should be the only measuring stick ..just that it would seem logical to be part of the equation.

You must have a different eye for talent than the coaches who see these players on a regular basis

PBR - welcome to the beehive! It's a friendly place really... the stings hardly even hurt!

Your mention of a player who has never played an inning of high school varsity ball in this state reflects my question perfectly. Are you ranking the best HIGH SCHOOL players (as in ranking players and their performance on the field playing FOR THEIR SCHOOL) in the state, or are you ranking the best HIGH SCHOOL AGE players who you happened to see at a showcase or other event?

I'm not questioning this player's talent - he's gotta be good to have gotten the attention and offer he has, and I REALLY don't want this to be about any particular player. This is just a general question about how kids make your list - or any ranking list - who have never played an inning of varsity baseball?

And as a follow up question - why are the players you mentioned NOT making All Conference? What's the story there? Don't you think other coaches in the conference are the best judge of who the best players are?

Or how about highly rated players at a particular showcase not even making the HS varsity squad?

quote:

Originally posted by tralpaz:
Or how about highly rated players at a particular showcase not even making the HS varsity squad?

That is a very interesting observation.