Are parents too involved?

eeek..good post.

I see that you're in California. So you know that the high caliber players, at least in Northern California, are so visibile and so noteworthy..that the "others" almost pale in comparison. Is it any wonder that parents, around here at any rate (I can't speak for other regions) worry and fret about their sons simplying PLAYING college ball? On this website, I hardly ever see postings about California players getting signed. Look in the California forum as compared to other states. We're just hoping our son gets a nod from a college. Scholarship money? Who knows? There was only one player on my son's team in the last 10 years who actually got scholarship money much less played at the next level. The odds are not too good from our program unless a parent jumps in a manages stuff. And, yes, we watch to see if what WE see is what the RECRUITERS are seeing. So, yes, we watch obsessively because you cannot look away when it is your child, exposed for all his foibles, weaknesses, strengths, characters for an opportunity to do something that he has worked for since tee-ball. I doubt there are many parents with sons at this level who worry about "protecting" them. After all, we are helping them get "exposed" and this invites criticism as well as compliments.

I was at a few of the Stanford Camp games this past week. I was astounded at how many people were at the games! Cheers, sure. But plenty of comments from the peanut gallery that made me feel embarassed to be a parent there.

Infieldad - You're just on a roll lately! Great question!!!

I believe I can say "No, I was never too involved". I realize though that's my perception. I'll have to remember to ask my son later.

Perhaps we were freaks in the baseball world. My son and I NEVER thought about a baseball scholarship. He always assumed he'd play baseball in college. We never thought about exposure in baseball. He never attended high profile showcases - as a matter of fact that stuff usually went into the trash when I looked at the costs.

He just played baseball because he loved it. I just went and watched him because I loved it. It was just him and what he did! He played baseball.

I can remember a dad when my son went to visit a JUCO and spent the day on the field with the team. There was this kid there pitching and working out with them for an hour or two. That dad walked up and down the fenceline, around the building, etc. following his son as he "tried out". I sat in the stands laughing (I think to myself!) at this guy!

This past weekend I observed a dad with his book in hand discussing with his pitcher son what he had done right, wrong, needed to focus on in the next few weeks, where he stood against other pitchers in the league....... Again, I sat there laughing!

Baseball has never been a business for either one of us! Like they say, ignorance is bliss I suppose!

.

Good disucssion and a VERY topical question...

While we all want the best for our sons and there are many many more excellent people in baseball than problem parents...

IMO the nature of the process has changed in the last 5 years and the trend is clear...Baseball is headed the way of Tennis and Golf. The future of youth baseball is beginning to look more and more like and investment of tens of thousands of dollars, and years of full-time micromanaging juniors career by the parents. Is it any wonder that the parents are anxious?

Does this excuse the parental behavior? No. But it does mean that as this thing increasingly becomes a parent driven project as much as a child driven one, it becomes harder and harder for most parents not to get overinvolved.

44

Well said 44.

infielddad,

CAMP? CAMP? Are we talkin' about practice? Are we really talkin' about practice?

Interesting observations. We went to a couple of school camps and a couple of showcases. I remembered them much as you did. Some parents scattered around the stands lounging, reading, socializing, etc. I recall no cheering barking etc. I can't emotionally invest in a CAMP. At my age I prefer to save my energy for other activities.

Dad04, one of the coaches called and said he had just spent the morning watching a run of righty's throwing 76.
Grabbed my glove (found the leather was cracked from non-use) and went roaring to the camp.
Thought for sure I could match up at 76 and still had 3 years of eligibility.
Just started to loosen up. Found out they wanted several hundred of my hard earned dollars.
Also found out with one throw that leather in the glove wasn't the only thing that had cracked from non-use.
Sulked into the stands, my hopes and dreams dashed. Put on the sun glasses and enjoyed great conversation with some coaches while having fun watching a lots of baseball on the Sunken Diamond...a beautiful place to spend any day.

________________________________________________
"IMO the nature of the process has changed in the last 5 years and the trend is clear...Baseball is headed the way of Tennis and Golf. The future of youth baseball is beginning to look more and more like and investment of tens of thousands of dollars, and years of full-time micromanaging juniors career by the parents. Is it any wonder that the parents are anxious? "
________________________________________________


O44, I am concerned you are right. The sense of investing money, sometimes a lot of money, creates "entitlement." The combination of money invested and "entitlement" sometimes leads to very poor results in the way people act and the decisions that get made.
I was watching Field of Dreams last night and couldn't help but see the contrast in the trend you describe and the following lines:

"The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It's been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game, is a part of our past, Ray. It reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again."

All that was good...and could be again. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm!

Righties in the 70's? Please ask about crafty lefties in the 50's nearing 50? I'm going to long toss tonight. I haven't thrown BP in 8 years but I've heard its like riding a bike. Well, I fell off my bike and broke a collar bone 10 years ago, but on my glove side.

Having been a coach I have seen a dramatic change in the atmosphere. 30 years ago parents came to the game watched and went home. Now some of them practically sit on the bench

Parents are just like ball players. There are many different types of both. Some know how to act and some don't! We've met a lot of great parents and a few bad apples!

.
Ok...now you've REALLY gone and done it...encouraged me...

"Get on that Soapbox 44!"....

...I'll take this discussion of overinvolved parents and "Tennisization" of baseball a step farther...

I believe that this trend has MAJOR negative implications for the future broad term viability of baseball in the US.

The Bad News?...Let's take a look at the youth tennis model.

American Junior tennis has evolved from a 70's boom when ALL kids played, into a tiny, parent driven, big money, selfish activity. The participation is small, expensive, regional (as opposed to local), private lesson driven, and it has strangled the life out of the kids and the sport. As a result tennis is paying the price, big time. This year's Wimbledon with NO Amercians is a case in point.As a result Tennis players are constantly complaining about the lack of american players.

I have told them that you want to fix it? IT's VERY simple. Look at the success of youth baseball, that's the model you should follow. It's inexpensive, it's accessable, it's local, it's fun for kids and parents and as a result it's simply a cultural institution. At the moment 80% of the kids in every community play. That's tremendous. Not only does it offer the numbers game but it produces lifetime fans and a cultural chain from generation to generation.

I see this cultural chain in jeopardy. I fear that by the time we in baseball recognizes the problem it will be too late.

The solution? Yep, spent the money. Take baseball regional and national. Offer private lessons for development. Travel like crazy. We did it and I am all for it. The increased competition is so important on many levels. BUT we must also find a way to protect, preserve, value and celebrate the hometown youth ball that is the foundation for all of it.

The good news?...based on the lack of respone I have had...I am COMPLETELY alone in this viewpoint...a voice in the wilderness ...er, I mean,...outfield.

And as no one agrees, then....I must be wrong...

but I doubt it...

And being the overinvolved parent I have been...I guess I don't have to worry about it, as long as my two got through successfully and are now playing college ball...who cares.

44

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Parents are just like ball players. There are many different types of both. Some know how to act and some don't! We've met a lot of great parents and a few bad apples!

I'll have to take PG's word on this as he deals with more parents on a regular basis that we do.

Infielddad asked a question, but I get the feeling he my have had more negatives in mind on the subject than I did as I read his post.

I was and still am an involved parent in my children's lives, not just baseball. I follow every game son plays, in person, on TV and or the internet, was highly involved as a booster parent in HS and highly involved in choosing what teams to play on and what events to participate in and his recruiting process and draft process in HS. I also was invloved as far as watching out for his arm health, and we spoke up when we felt a need to.

As a parent I watch the game as a fan, as a parent I do hope son does not fail, on the field or off, as a parent I am interested to know who was watching and who is now. I think that is normal.

As a parent, in HS, I traveled ONCE out of FL to watch him play in the many out of state tournaments and games he participated in. We dropped him off at camps, but that was what we did, I don't see if someone chooses to do so that it makes them too involved. As son grows older and I realize he may not play forever, I often wish we had spent more time watching those things in person, rather than hearing about them.

JMO

I would have to agree that parents are practically forced to be involved these days because everyone is looking out for their own son or their own job (coaches). And with the cost of sending your kids to camps or to play on summer teams you have to make sure you are getting your moneys worth. There are good ways to be involved though and bad ways. Parents who talk to their kids while they are on the field or around the field should think about what it is doing to the kid. My son won't let us do that and won't let us talk to a coach unless he has had several conversations with the coach and doesn't feel like he's being heard, and even then it would have to be a major issue. We counsel our son before and after games at home and we do a lot of leg work for him with getting him to the right events and on the right teams to get him seen. So far it's worked out pretty well and we don't have too many other parents or coaches that can't stand to see us walk into the stadium.

I sorta miss:

The international sign for "I'm thirsty", the throwing hand shaped like a "C" to the mouth.

Seeing 20 ladies turn around when a kid yells "Hey Ma!"

quote:

BUT we must also find a way to protect, preserve, value and celebrate the hometown youth ball that is the foundation for all of it.

O44,

Some could think we are part of the problem (if there is one) I, for one, agree with your thoughts above, completely. The most important baseball is played by young kids at very little cost. We need to keep it that way!

Being involved in a healthy way means writing the checks for what your family can afford, attending games, cheering, driving them where they need to be, there to listen to concerns they have, perhaps steering them down certain roads..... IMO.

It does not mean some of the craziness that we've all witnessed from time to time. The parents that appear to be trying to live through son's accomplishments or what the parent wants the son's accomplishments to be.

As a parent I sat in section RZ which was reserved for parents that spit seeds, drank cokes, did not scream for "Billy", and did not bring up the 30% off sale at Boston Stores. I was also the usher/bouncer with 0 tolerence. My better half sat with the masses where there was always a scream, a cackle, and never a moment of silence. They were also enjoying the game. At times I thought they were out of line. Now when I sit back and look at it and think who am I to say how they show their emotion, they are proud parents. I think it comes down to 2 issues......

1. Camps and showcases have minimal "stage" time. If you pitch, you might only see an inning, if you hit there may be 2 or 3 AB's. From a parents standpoint, many get excited about the times you are on stage. Who are we to judge? These are time consuming events that are not cheap and regardless of what little Billy thinks, he's probably the one who planted the "excitment seed" to begin with.

2. Look to see what parents are being the loudest and most enthusiastic. My money says it is the parents of kids that do not go to many events and/or are parents of "marginal" showcase players. I think you see more noise because the events have been opened to a bigger audience. If you have the entry fee you can participate. I have no problem with giving anybody who wants the opportunity, but, those who do not want the the noise are going to have to sit back and bite their lip because everyone paid the same price to get in. On one hand the baseball gods want to have more people involved, on the other hand they expect everyone to act the same. Sorry, not going to happen.

Most of us have kids that do not want us around at all for these things. Little Billy does not understand the parental instinct and right that allows us to watch our kids grow up. It's like a lion who teaches her young to hunt then watches a good kill and disappears into the brush. Your not going to stop it.

I can remember going to the TeamOne Showcase at ND in 2002 where they had some great games going on but you could hear a pin drop in the stands full of people. Except for my wife and a couple other moms who snuck their hairdryers into the park and sat a couple rows behind the scouts and gunned pitches , it was kind of boring. However, if there would have been player and fan excitement, they would have gone down as the most exciting HS games I'd ever seen.

Anyone is still welcome with the ol' faarts in section RZ as long as they follow the rules.

Great topic Infielddad. I think you hit upon a factor influencing certain negative characteristics of "involvement" when you spoke of "entitlement". I remember attending my first showcase event with my son over a year ago {it seems like a century}. I saw nervous parents [primarily fathers] pacing around, following every move of their sons on the field and at bat, seeming to live and die with each mini-failure or success. Yelling things like "great play Johnny" or "shake it off kid, you will get them next time" as if their child or his evaluators needed a reminder that #8 made a good play or struck out on a curve ball in the dirt.

At the time I thought to myself, I will never be like that. And I don't believe that I have been. But it has taken some effort on my part to keep reminding myself that it is his dream, his opportunity and his talent; not mine.

But there is a need for parental involvement in at least one part of his "search" for "a college where I can play baseball." The parent must help in researching the colleges of interest on the academic side. Does it have a major he is interested in? Will it be too tough academically for him? Will it not be tough enough academically? Is it too religous or not religous enough? Is there a social life on campus or must it be found off campus?

The parent should also be involved in the "search" for the right baseball program. What is the head coach like? How long have the assistants been there? What is the background of the Assistant Coach that will be mostly involved with my son? What are the facilities like? Are the outdoor field demensions and accoutrements favorable to my son's talents or unfavorable? What are the indoor facilities like? Do they have a full size weight room or is it tucked away somewhere in the corner of a basement? And we could go on and on. The parents must assist in finding out the true answers to these and many other questions before a decision is reached and the NLI is signed.

So perhaps instead of attending that 5th showcase this year and going through the thrill of victory/agony of defeat showcase internal conflict we all seem to go through you might spend the weekend on the internet doing a lot of research on those "dream colleges". That kind of parental involvement can only help your son and it won't embarass you in the least.

TW344

We have a policy at our events and it is explained in our pre showcase seminar

Parents dont talk(complain) to the coaches--they sit in the stands and cheer , take videos etal

Parents if you have a complaint come see the Main Man" in the press box-- if you go at the coaches for anything they will not talk to you--they have instructions to adhere to-- they will send you to press box--and the "MAIN MAN" may just ask you to stay at the hotel the next time your kid takes the field

You know it works--- we are always open for a gentlemanly discussion aside from all others-and most will do it that way

Parents should be t there to enjoy their sons ability and see the ability of others in a great format---

To show how extreme it can get---a few years back we had a typical Northeast Thunderstorm hit us at 5 in the afternoon and a parent comes to me, p[oking his finger in my s chest, and asks " So what are you going to do about this?"--I gave him a quarter and told him "Call THE MAN upstairs and see if you have more luck than I have had"

And another year is here !!! I wonder what awaits us this year LOL


All kidding aside 99.9% of the parents are great and what makes it all worthwhile

.

PG..

You and I agree...

I do not see PG as a/the problem. YOu serve a valuable purpose.

The problem is the continued assault on community youth leagues, particularly at the younger levels.. And the ramifacations for the future as the more passionate players and parents are pulled away from community ball as a result of the "Tennsization" process.

Those leagues run solely on HUGE amounts of parental goodwill, passion, donation, and community.

When that goes?

44

I am still tying to figure out what is at stake at "14"?

Parents are louder and more active because their heart is where their money is! You can't expect a blank check with no input from the parents. The way I see it is I am now paying for a service and I expect to get my moneys worth or you will hear about it, just like at McDonalds, you mess up my order and I complain, compare that $5.00 ticket to the thousands spent on tournaments/showcases and you can muliply my input by a factor of a 1000 or so.

As I have mentioned before I am very involved with recreational baseball in my area. I all but beg parents to let their kids play in our programs. They think we don't have the level of talent their kids need. I always tell them if your kid comes then the talent will be there. We offer a great value at $65-75. Not only that our league insurance will cover a travel team made up of players from our league so we even encourage the players to form travel teams and play any and all competition. If a kid is registered at our park we let their travel team use our fields for practice and or games at no additional charge. Still no takers. For some strange reason most parents think if it cost more money it must be better. What they don't realize is that is exactly what everybody else is doing and the teams in travel ball are just high priced rec teams. Now don't get me wrong the top tier travel teams are great and loaded with top talent. The other ten thousand where most of the kids play are what I am talking about.

The real drivers are the organizations and coaches that have the parents and players beliving the only way to play in college is through the showcase/tournament route. Which I also believe is the case.The coaches say they can see more and better talent at the showcases, using less time and money, then complain that the talent is lower because only the wealthy show-up. They need more minorities in baseball but the minorities can't afford the travel/showcase circuit. It is one of those self-perpetuating problems and nobody has the courage to stop the train and get off.

A close to home example is the high school feed by one of our bigger parks took almost all of the park all-star team for their freshman class 4 seasons ago. The next season they took players from a travel team run by a big booster. The next season that travel team merged with a travel team coached by one of the hs assistants and they took 4 8th graders over some pretty good freshmen. (This high school has 2000 kids). Now all the 13 y/os (7/8th graders)think you have to be on that special team (read as pay big money) or you will not make the school team. So when the coaches complain the talent is down and the parents complain too much, I tell them it is your own fault, and get out my checkbook and hit the showcase/tournament trail.

I have watched this thread closely for the past day as it is of great interest to me (sorry for the length of this post).

To the basic question asked, "Are parents too involved?" I say the answer is YES! No, not everyone, not all the time, not everywhere...but YES...WE are too involved. (notice the "WE" in that sentence...I fear that I am guilty too).

I DID spend too much money, I DID take too much time off work, I DID travel too often leaving my other kids and/or wife at home and I DID, at least a few times, make my son feel as if his whole life depended on baseball. Sound familiar to any of you?

What are some of the bigger symptoms? For one, I see all of the behavior that infielddad describes when I go to 12/13/14-year old baseball games. Much of this behavior is new and accentuated for this age group. I get emails or phone calls or questions from parents of 10/11/12-year olds about 'how to prepare their youngster for college baseball?' I see the (historically) very best HS-age summer programs now reaching down to 11/12-year olds (whatever happened to hometown community baseball Observer44? ) and I hear parents' disappointment when their 13-year old son isn't invited onto that super-duper elite team (I can tell you, for sure, that our now 6'-3" 19-year old son would not have made these teams at age 13, 5'-2"). And now I see showcases for 13/14-year olds and worse-yet parents paying to send them there. WHY?

I also see parents getting HS coaches fired at an alarming rate (will there be any HS coaches left in 10 years? in 5 years?). I hear parents asking me if their son should even play HS baseball but instead just do the 'travel thing' (will there be HS baseball in 10 years? in 5 years?). In our area, I see we have a severe shortage of HS umpires because of the abuse they take from us parents...and virtually no young ones entering the ranks. I read parents posting on their son's college's message board about how lousy the coach is and I hear about college parents calling their son's college coach about Johnny's (lack of) playing time.

Cheering at a showcase is NOT something I saw much of 3 years ago...and its not a crime for sure...but it IS an indicator of the over-importance the parents place on that one event.

Come on, lets admit it...our parents would have NEVER done these things I have listed...not where I grew up. And we turned out ok, didn't we?

Look, we are parents...we are GOOD parents. Our sons and daughters are lucky to have us for sure. We ALL want to do the very best for our sons and daughters. I do and have too. I don't think I'm a bad person or you are a bad person or the people running 12-year old elite teams and showcases are bad people (they wouldn't be there if there wasn't a 'market' for it!). Some are the very best people I know.

But are we too involved? Yes, I think so. And I think at times we telegraph to our kids that unless they make that elite travel team and go 3-4 and/or pitch a 2-hitter that they have failed US. Do we get as excited (or disappointed) when they bring home straight A's (or 3 C's) in HS? Did you really? Yes, I am guilty of not always focusing on the most important things too...I try to curb it and I'm not always successful. But lets think about what we really wanted for our sons and daughters when they were in the crib. College education? A good spouse? A few children? Nice home/good job? A good citizen? Thats what we wanted. A good baseball player was a bonus...icing on the cake...not a requirement. Do I always remember that? No.

I'm sure some (maybe many?) of you will disagree with at least part of what I have said. Thats good because I've only met one or two parents who fit all of that above and surely none of us are all of that. I wrote much of this mostly to give us something to think about. But as my injured son returned home last night...I wasn't thinking about baseball at all. I was thinking about how much I love him, about how happy I am that he's alive (you should see the bloody uniform!), about the things we're going to do together to fill up the rest of the summer. Lets be involved, but lets keep it grounded and lets keep it fun.

justbaseball---

[I believe that this trend has MAJOR negative implications for the future broad term viability of baseball in the US.]


Baseball aside, what about societal and cultural outfall from children who are pushed hard and early to compete? Some kids take to it just fine and learn how to handle competition. How to "grow" with the competitive nature of sports and life. Some don't do so well and will always look over their shoulder to see if their parents (read: wife/girlfriend/husband/etc.) think they are doing okay. This kids will always need confirmation because the competitive nature of the world requires a person to have a high degree of self-confidence. You don't get self-confidence when mom or dad are continually negotiating, diluting, negating, manuevring, manipulating, translating and so forth because you never gain the tools that mom and dad think are essential for competition: negotiating, diluting, negating, manuevring, manipulating, translating and so forth!!!!

Learning to be independent and self-assured is so tricky. In the past, there was a lot more freedom (because it was safer) for kids to develop this. I speak from those of us in heavily populated urban cultures where our kids were never allowed to play in front of the house with out an adult; never went down to the park alone; were basically never "alone" in the world until they were 14 or 15. As a result, I probably HAD to do a lot more negotiating, etc. for my kid because he didn't have alot of those worldly skills early on. He's learning them now. But I know he's a few steps behind some of the farm boys, etc. who had the space and freedom to grow up naturally.
So overinvolved parents are a problem, I agree. But some of us had to do it to keep our kids safe, in some respects.

quote:

But lets think about what we really wanted for our sons and daughters when they were in the crib. College education? A good spouse? A few children? Nice home/good job? A good citizen? Thats what we wanted. A good baseball player was a bonus...icing on the cake...not a requirement.

Amen and no one is more surprised than me with that bonus.

Folks

If they come out of the womb healhty nowadays that is a MAJOR BONUS ---- be thankful for that--after that is it all a bonus

Justbaseball, great post.

JBB,
Great post.

As I told JBB, the day I found out about his son, it was a few hours before our last and final game in Omaha. During the entire game I kept thinking of Erik, JBB and family,as my husband unfortunetly had the same type of injury many years ago, while at a ML spring training game. I don't know Erik personally but have been following him for a few years and I sort of lived through much pain and agony for many months after husband was hurt. I have to admit, I felt quite uncomfortable trying to enjoy myself when I had an idea of what he was going through, as well as his parents.

As I look back on that day, I know that I would worry all over again, because I realized then that as long as son is healthy and happy, nothing else REALLY matters. It sort of put lots of things in perspective.

quote:

Cheering at a showcase is NOT something I saw much of 3 years ago...and its not a crime for sure...but it IS an indicator of the over-importance the parents place on that one event. Come on, lets admit it...our parents would have NEVER done these things I have listed...not where I grew up

.
I'm with Justbaseball 100% on this. But there is a very extreme parallel out there that I am very familiar with and that's youth hockey. The good thing is baseball will never carry the rep that hockey parents have. If you go to an elite youth hockey, 8-15 year old game, you will see the ugliest parent situations in your life. Now go to a 16-18 yr old elite game and 80% of those rabbid parents are gone or now quiet. Why are they gone/quiet? I feel that they have either burned their kids out, the kids/parents found out they were not that good, the parents have grown up themselves and realize that it is not the #1 thing in life, or the rules of their probation said they had to behave . Bottom line is you cannot control parental attitude, it is blind.

Back in the 60's and 70's my parents would never have carried on like that, but at that time there was not as much at stake in order to move to the next level and there was not the personal economic impact. These are issues brought on by the elite programs and the dreams of the parents of the young kids to be part of those programs.

Hockey was one of the first youth sports that had "elite" programs and it has filtered into baseball. I think it's great, it gave my son opportunities that he never would have had, I had a blast, and met some great people. As with the evolution of anything, there are negatives that go with it. The important thing is to follow your own believes, and ignore the attitudes that you can't change.

perhaps the parents burned themselves out?

I know the hockey folk

I have read this whole topic with much interest. I can only hope that I am not one of those obnoxious parents. I do remember yelling "that was my son" during a PG event when I realized that my usual catcher was playing 3rd and had made a great play to first. I also know that the financial aspect of baseball is more and more.

Until just a year or so ago, (my son will be a senior this year) we had never even heard about showcases. The varsity players parents mentioned it when my son was brought up for a game or two. No freshman parent and most of the JV parents had no idea what they were talking about. Then we find out that almost "have" to attend a showcase or two to get noticed by anyone. I do attend all of my son's games, tournaments and showcases (going to third one ever this month). I love to watch him play, I love to watch baseball at any level, and I love to support him.

Whether he makes it to the next level or not, I will be proud of him. If he is happy - I will be happy. I know that he loves the game. I do push when I know he is not doing what he is capable of. I enjoy the drives as it gives us time to talk and share each others lives - not just baseball.

If I am too involved - so be it. Sometimes our involvement is what keeps them from getting involved in other stuff.

Just a mom's point of view.

quote:

perhaps the parents burned themselves out?

Good point TR. I know our LL has used the hockey parent flaws as a reminder in an effort to control potential situations. We realize that you can't eliminate the attitude you can only hope to contain it. As a result we do not keep league standings, our All-Star coaches are recruited away from the program, fan rules are posted, and at all times there is a board member at the field to supervise the fans. Our LL is 600+ kids strong and every year the number of parent "incidents" goes down. We hope this attitude is ingrained into the mindset of parents as the kids get older.

justbb, because of the breadth of your experience, from the AFLAC and team USA with Erik to your involvement/attachment with your local Pony league, I have to say, your post ROCKS!!!
That is truly a keeper.

It is very hard to strike the appropriate balance when supporting and encouraging your son's baseball development.

I try always to be cognizant of helping my son develop personal interests and identities outside of baseball. I don't want him to think of himself as only a baseball player.

That said, I confess that I spend more time and money on baseball than on any of his other interests. I'm not sure that is a bad thing, but I am sure that I want my son to grow up to be much more than a baseball player, even if he is fortunate enough to realize his dream of playing in the big leagues.

For me, my son's transition to high school was an important benchmark. For the first time his development as a player was largely out of my hands. For the first time I have zero input as to how he practices with his team, where and how much he plays, where he bats in the order, what batting mechanics he uses, etc.

I think it is important for both the parent and the player for the parent to be able to let go and be a spectator.

As my son has transitioned into high school and made the jump from youth ball immediately to varsity, he has struggled more than he is used to. This has given both of us a terrific opportunity to gain perspective.

He's had more failure this year than in years past. As he struggles through it, part of me is happy that I get the opportunity to just quietly support him, prove to him that going 0 for 3 doesn't matter, and let him adjust to the higher level of play by working with his coaches and teammates, without much input from me.

No matter where any of us fall on the spectrum of "over-involvement," it is a dead certain fact that at some point our involvement in the direction of our son's baseball career is negligible.

Which means for any of us, our real job as parents involved in our son's baseball is to work ourselves out of a job. If more parents realized this, we might have less "daddy ball" and fewer high maintenance parents.

Justbaseball -- maybe the best post I have seen on this board.

I have a 19 year old son playing D-1 college football. I have another 17 year old son getting recruiting phone calls from college baseball coaches. He should get the opportunity to play college baseball somewhere. He currently plays on a very elite level summer baseball team in the Dallas area. He did not begin playing elite level baseball until the summer before his sophomore year in high school. It did not seem to hurt him one bit as he is getting phone calls and notice from several Big 12 and D-1 schools.

Since he has not spent his whole life playing baseball he likes to hunt, fish, camp out, and wake board. I think he would tell you that he has a well rounded life AND he is also one heck of a baseball player.

I've got an 8 year old lefty that I am going to raise the same way. He is playing local rec ball and will play local fall ball until he gets to be 14-15 years old. At that time we will make the decision based on his talent and interest whether we want to make the investment of time and money to try to make it at the "elite" youth team level.

There are actually 8 year old "World Series" - I kid you not about this. There are travel teams made up of 8 year old boys going all over the country playing tournament baseball. There is NO WAY these 8 year old kids came up with the idea of having a "World Series" of coach pitch or machine pitch baseball teams. This is an insane idea hatched by crazy adults and parents whose lives must be pretty boring who are trying to live vicariously through their little boys.

Ok, well now that everyone has done the whole self-flagellation thing, maybe it’s time to step back and realize that it really has little to do with baseball, and more to do with society in general. The sense of entitlement can be seen just driving home from work, rabid drivers who own the road, the casual litter along the road because someone just didn’t want that Styrofoam coffee cup in their car.

What about school? You think baseball is pressure-filled? Try being a kid who brings home a C or below to their dressed-for-success parents. Their kid is going to Harvard, he’s tops in his class you know. This isn’t new. I knew kids back when I was in school who were scared to death over their SAT results and the hell to pay once dad found out. The difference nowadays is that dad would probably go marching into the school to blame somebody else for the situation. Same pressure, different victim.


Hockey? Yeah, those parents are nuts. At least the ones you hear about. I’ll give you that.


I don’t see the tennis analogy though. I grew up in the 70s and nobody played tennis. Nobody. Tennis was for dorks. The only use the school tennis courts got was from middle-age parent-types.

Town organized youth baseball is its own worst enemy by virtue of it being lousy baseball and all-inclusive. Yippee – everyone gets to play with minimal instruction! That’s a recipe for driving any talent away.


Bottom line is, I’m not a noisy parent at games and events. I love watching my son play. Period. Success or failure (What IS failure?). I loved coaching him. I understand, and experience it weekly, that there are parents who yell, whine, cheer, complain, carry on obnoxiously, watch intently, say stupid things, get lovingly choked up, and some are downright boorish. That’s life. You have all kinds. I can get all that at work too. And there ain’t much gonna change people, and I’m certainly not wasting any time trying to.

So, stop beating yourselves up over it. Go enjoy the games and events, and be happy. And if you can’t be happy, or if you’re gonna go point an accusatory finger in TR’s chest, or scream like a lunatic during a showcase, then no amount of discussion on an internet bulletin board is going to change that. And there will always be someone to pick up your trash from the stands and the parking lot after you’re gone.

I hope everyone has a good baseball weekend!

In a constant barrage of info and bad news from the media, many of us now feel we must not only be involved in our children, but we must Control their destiny. The worst for many is when they grow old enough to tell us that they don't want, what We want.
JustBaseball,

quote:

Originally posted by crawdad:
Justbaseball -- maybe the best post I have seen on this board.

I have a 19 year old son playing D-1 college football. I have another 17 year old son getting recruiting phone calls from college baseball coaches. He should get the opportunity to play college baseball somewhere. He currently plays on a very elite level summer baseball team in the Dallas area. He did not begin playing elite level baseball until the summer before his sophomore year in high school. It did not seem to hurt him one bit as he is getting phone calls and notice from several Big 12 and D-1 schools.

Since he has not spent his whole life playing baseball he likes to hunt, fish, camp out, and wake board. I think he would tell you that he has a well rounded life AND he is also one heck of a baseball player.

I've got an 8 year old lefty that I am going to raise the same way. He is playing local rec ball and will play local fall ball until he gets to be 14-15 years old. At that time we will make the decision based on his talent and interest whether we want to make the investment of time and money to try to make it at the "elite" youth team level.

There are actually 8 year old "World Series" - I kid you not about this. There are travel teams made up of 8 year old boys going all over the country playing tournament baseball. There is NO WAY these 8 year old kids came up with the idea of having a "World Series" of coach pitch or machine pitch baseball teams. This is an insane idea hatched by crazy adults and parents whose lives must be pretty boring who are trying to live vicariously through their little boys.

crawdad............You have the best post on this thread... ...I did it the same way, and I also have an 8 year old with baseball passion, and we will do it the same way.

Too many people think that if their kid misses a "National Event" between the ages of 8 and 16, that they are missing pro opportunities.