Are travel teams necessary for the under 12 crowd?

Yes, probably most people on this site have been through this and will put their 2 cents in. I sent you a private message.

AAM,

This is my opinion from my experience. I currently have a 14 yr old son who played JV ball as a freshman. In my honest opinion I believe 9 yr olds are way too young to play travel ball. The game should be fun and hanging out with friends. 11-12 year olds is definitely a good start with travel. But then again at this age Little League and Pony All stars run through late july and sometimes depending how far they go well into August. Factor in travell ball into winter and fall and that is alot of ball. Some kids can't get enough of it but most are forced to play when they really shouldn't. The majority of kids in my area, SOCAL, have played some form of Travel Ball when they were 12,13,14 yrs old. They are better hitters and have better instincts and they usually shine during tryouts. This doesn't mean the RECBall kids aren't any good. To me the experience with Travel have made them sharper and slightyly better.

Fast forward to today. At my son's school between the JV and Freshman teams I'd say 80 percent of the players played elite Stars or some form of Travel. IT is the nature of the beast around these parts. I look back at what my son went through and he didn't have any regrets , he loves the game and he likes his current position on the team.

To answer your question I would have to do so in two parts. Is the rec ball not so satisfactory to your son? Is he head and shoulders better than everyone and does he like challenges? Is he having fun? I think only you and your son can answer these questions. 9-10 is too young and 11-12 is the perfect time to start. Good luck!

Why can't travel baseball be fun as well? Why is every argument/discussion between rec league and travel ball is about being fun vs. being competitive?

Here is my experience...my guys started at 8, playing up against 9u. Why? Because I had 10-11 kids who played rec ball and were afraid to throw the ball to 1B in fear of hurting the kid. How is THAT fun? We surrounded our kids with other kids who wanted to play the game. We have never recruited nor have we replaced a kid with a bigger and better kid. Most of our kids have been together since 9U. We lose 1-2 each year from moving out of the area and have only had 1 kid leave for another team.

Ask our kids today (now 13U) and they will tell you they have had a blast with each other. They are best of friends and hang out off the field. We have never had a squabble about anything. No parent issues...nothing. To me, THAT is fun.

While I understand we are not the norm, travel baseball can be fun.

Our experience is that travel/select ball, whatever you want to call it, will improve the chances of moving up through the ranks for the simple reason that the competition is better.

Skills development through practice and lessons has a place, but at some point, the player has to experience game situations where those skills are challenged.

We were fortunate that we lived in an area where more competitive leagues were available and travel didn't play into it that much. We did some travel tournaments...which was a lot of fun with lots of great memories...but that was once or twice a year.

I remember my son saying once about a friend of his who made the HS freshman team but moved no further: it's too bad he didn't move out of LL into select cause he could have been a good player if he had a chance to play better teams.

Agreed 11-12 is a good time to find a more competitive place to play.

Welcome to the HSBBW. Your first post touches on a number of very important questions about youth baseball that everyone needs to ask.
1. Why does you son play baseball?
2. Why do you want your son to play baseball?
3. What would your son sacrifice to play baseball?
4. What would you sacrifice so that he could play?
5. Who has the most input as to where he plays? You or your son?

All of these question factor in as to what age and what level a player should play. As you can guess there is no standard answer. Redbird and baseballbum both bring up a very important word --- FUN. Is it fun to play recreational ball or does it border on boredom for your son? Is the highest level of competitive baseball fun or is it overwhelming? I saw my son at age 11 almost lose the desire to play baseball until I put him on a 13u travel team. That challenge renewed his interest and put fun back into his game. I can remember when he was 12 and having to drive him 180 miles round trip every day so he could make practice on the best team around. Inside I felt as if I was “pushing” too much until he looked at me during one of those long drives and thanked me for the sacrifices I was making just so he could play the most competitive baseball around. As redbird suggest the most competitive level can be the most rewarding and therefore the most fun for some players. I will also admit that most players at the recreational level are having fun and are playing where they want to play. I remember a rec coach calling me and begging me to bring my son back to his team. After I said NO that we would focus our efforts to travel ball he immediately criticized me for destroying his recreational program and pushing my son after some unobtainable dream. His son quit playing five years ago --- mine is still playing. His son had fun playing baseball as did my son. Different strokes for different folks.
Fungo

Here is something to consider. Is your son's LL team teaching the correct fundamentals and do you see him progressing. The problem I have seen since my recent move to Florida from West Tennessee, is the Florida LL programs are very good compared to a nonexistant LL experience back in Tennessee as I am sure Fungo can and will attest to. That is why he drove to Memphis for competitve practices for his son at 12 years old. Any player with decent skills plays at least AA or higher back in TN. This is probably the norm where LL is not played. I would guess being in California, you probably are seeing a decent level of baseball from the LL teams. There is no doubt my current 12 year old son needed the experience of playing competitve baseball prior to his move to Florida where he has continued to play at the competitve level.

My belief is players should be playing at the most competitive level available for them. As long as it is what your son wants to do and not what you want him to do. I've seen parents bang on the fence scream at their kids. Just unbelievable things and I know of one kid that this year said enough is enough and did not even try out for his high school team.
Just because it is competitve does not mean it isn't supposed to be fun too. Find a team, a coach that truly teaches fundamentals and proper mechanics and does not try to over use any pitchers. Then stay with one team, I see so many kids that move year to year for one reason or another and it never seems to work.
My son switched once, when he did I made him tell his coach he wasn't coming back, I didn't protect him, if he wanted to leave he had to do it. Imagine a 10 year old explaining to a coach he didn't want to play there anymore. Tough situation but he realized how important it was for him to handle it. He played with that one coach from 7-10 and another from 11-14. Him and I both see these coaches now and again and we are all still friends. My son this past year played a game against another HS and after the game 3 of the kids that had played together in the past took a picture together. It is now in a frame on my sons desk. Quite a memory.
His last coach has told him anything I can do to help you let me know and I will be there, once a part of our family always a part of our family. Just find the right one. We did, we were lucky 2x, ask opinions from parents it's not about the best team but playing time, learning and being competitve against so called all star teams.

12 and up YES - otherwise just play alot of baseball. Problem is that in our area even with Allstars you might play 20 games and practices are limited to say the least - just not enough.

quote:

Florida LL programs are very good compared to a nonexistant LL experience back in Tennessee as I am sure Fungo can and will attest to.

Good point! I agree the area you live in does have a bearing on the quality of baseball played.

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to answer my question. You given me lots of food for thought. I realize we made need to look at another travel ball team to be objective and it sounds like we can just keep the focus on fun awhile longer. I don't mean to dis the dad who said travel ball and fun can go together--we just didn't have that experience (though the team was run by a for profit baseball business and I should probably look for another type of club.)

Thanks for all the input.

AAM,
We are facing this decision as well. It's a tough decision for us becaus the little league my son plays in is a good one. It's run by a top notch board and we have great facilities. If that wasn't the case then our decision would be easy. I have also heard absolute horror stories about some of our local travel teams, as well as some great things. I guess some of your decision has to depend on the programs available to you.

There are a lot of great perspectives here and I cant believe how similar our experiences have been to Fungo's. Last year we played AAA travel in another centre that was a 90 minute round trip for home field games and 3 hours for our longest away game. Similarly, our local House League program really castigated us for depleting the local program.

My now 11YO son played AA travel this year and I was an Assistant Coach on that team. Further, our score-keeping was electronic and we had the prior season's data. We had three players with AAA travel experience, four with AA travel experience that played in a AAA loop and the rest had come out of House League. The team worked hard in the spring and we convinced the parents to set up a program with a local baseball training facility. We went to batting cages before every home game. Our kids were well-versed in hitting fundamentals (although some would go back to old methods). Our coaches became well versed in fundamentals and we re-inforced as much as possible. We had a tremendous regular season as a result (22-2-0 and averaged 16 runs per game).

Our season runs from the beginning of May until the end of August (54 games with reg. season, tournaments, and exhibitions). Early in the season, we began challenging AAA teams to exhibitions and added two AAA tournaments to our list. We also had a late addition to our team of a player who was a superstar in House League.

The big thing I noticed as a coach and the stats bear this out - pitching and defence are a whole lot better at the more competitive levels - so much so that it changes the game. The kids who had played AAA before were relatively transparent (at mid-season my son's batting average against AA was 580 and against AAA was 630). Against slower pitching, the House League kids who had hung onto their loopy swings were getting struck out and if they did hit the ball it was a late fly to a fielder who was going to catch it 90% of the time. The averages here were more like 450 going down to 150. Another factor is the lower likelihood of easy walks due to greater control with the pitchers. Some kids chose to make the transition with their swing, some didnt.

The point I am trying to make here is that at less competitive levels, the need to work is masked. For example, if you kid has a 750 batting average, how much do you work on the swing? When my kid went to travel from House League his 750 dropped to 300. He then started to work on the swing.

On defense, the abilities of the players around you start to make a difference. For example, run-downs become an automatic out and double plays occur more frequently in travel ball.

Baseball is a cumulative experience game. The commitment to the higher number of games in my opinion is worth the price. It provides enough time to work on things. During those 54 games my son was able to pitch just under 80 inings. This provided a lot of working experience to throw the change-up he had worked on in the spring. He mixed this with two seam and four-seam. It was his first year of having pitches called to location. He K'd just over half of the batters he faced. I cant imagine doing this on a twenty game season.

Still, there are numerous reasons to consider playing in a House League or AA environment. One may be that your kid is not at the higher level. If this were to be the case, he might not get the playing time and not necessarily in the best positions. He might be frustrated at the plate and have less baserunning opportunities. Compare this to playing all of the time and having the luxury of working on new skills. The big factor is to find a great coach who has the energy to put into player development.

I think it would be hard to make it through Try Outs at AAA at 12 or 13 YO with 3 years of House League behind you and no specific offline work. Remember, you have to project that you can be better than the current team members - not as good! If you are one of the most atheletic kids in town - maybe... There has to be an average 6 to 7 mph hour difference in pitching speed and it's not something you can make up for on an "iron mike" a few nights before Try Outs.

Parents get more focussed in Travel ball. It's a lot more time and a lot more money. And... it's their kid. There are a lot more opportunities for conflict and pressure to arise. The dymanics of the group and the ability of the coaches to maintain control can make or break the experience. It cant be the same as House League - it's not set up that way. It can be good though if everybody wants to make an effort.

For us, it's worth it in the end.

Try Outs for 2008 begin tomorrow!

Cheers,

D

Find the best qualified teaching coach you can with a developmental as a priority. In your area, this may of may not be a travel team.

If you do not have a lot of baseball experience, become a student of the game because regardless of where your son plays, the one-on-one work you do with him will make the most difference in his abilities by HS age.

My son started playing baseball at 4 and has been playing select since he was 7. He is currently 13 and plays on a very competitive team. We found at 7 he was one of the most talented players in the Pony district that we were in. He was bored and extremely frustrated. He could not throw the ball full speed in the infield for fear of hurting the kid on the bag. He had also sent a child to the hospital with a broken jaw during one of his at bats. He was batting almost 1000, and he was to the point of not wanting to play any longer.

We put him on a select team with kids of his caliber and we drove 2 hours roundtrip to practice and back. He began to enjoy baseball again. He has won 2 National Titles and has had the time of his life. He also takes hitting and catching lessons. He has been taking hitting lessons since 7, to make sure that his mechanics are correct and he started taking catching lessons 2 years ago for the same reason. He averages a .700 batting average every season.

It was one of the best decisions that we ever made. I feel we have made a good investment in his future.

Now as far as time spent, we have only one child. I do not know how families with more than one child do it.

Now as far as saying what age to is too young. I believe that is an individual decision. I do not believe there is one right age to step out of the local association and into a more competitive environment.

Right you are, Roll-it! I had to learn how to pitch BP! My coworkers always ask me why I am limping on Monday mornings.

You're right too, Notlongtilicantcatchim. Playing up is the way to go. If the young man is a stud in your house league (our rec ball), he may be a legend in his own mind (or that of his parents). Good luck tomorrow!

quote:

Now as far as time spent, we have only one child. I do not know how families with more than one child do it.

Me either... I only have one also, and am happy to have made the investment. But with more, we'd be in the poorhouse.

quote:

Originally posted by 2Bmom
Me either... I only have one also, and am happy to have made the investment. But with more, we'd be in the poorhouse.

I was talking about time, but yeah I agree with you. We have a friend that has 2 boys playing select and 1 in showcase. Financially I do not know how they do it.

Between the season, 2 world series a year, lessons, gas, hotels, a new bat every year, new catching gear every year and miscellaneous other expenses I can only afford one.

But he has his dreams and his goals, and it is my pleasure to help him achieve them.

I also have a lot of respect for you. Pitching BP, I'd be a little scared, my reflexes are quite what they once were.

You raise a good point about the time and costs. My son is an only child as well. It would be tough to meet the needs of three kids at this level.

When our regular season ended last year we were in Baltimore in September (drove); Fall Ball in Buffalo in November (drove); Gaineville, FL (flew)in December; and Del Ray, FL in March (drove) - all for baseball. Between February and May we had pitching lessons, catching lessons and hitting lessons (probably close to 20 in all) in addition to our team work-outs. All this while we were doing Travel basketball and squash tournaments. We cut back to about ten lessons over the summer - mainly hitting. As well, we did two baseball camps in August. In addition to new catchers's gear (he doesnt catch a lot but, at 5'5"/160 pounds he's bigger than most kids) we had to replace an Omaha he busted mid-summer.

I am either building or buying an L-screen for hitting next season. Most of the hitting work this summer has been focussed on line-drives up the middle and he's getting too successful lately... I am past being able to get out of the way on a good shot anymore. I managed to avoid getting my shin shattered by about 2 inches three weeks ago - moved fast enough to take it in the calf and couldnt move well for a couple of days... I figure I bought the Catcher's equipment for me, as I wont be able to catch his pitching without gear by the end of next season.

All in all, baseball has provided us with some great experiences together. We were exhausted at the end of this season. You know what though... can't wait for Hitting lessons tonight and Try Outs tomorrow...


Cheers,


D

Does your son cry when his team loses and the other kids just want to know where the juice box is? Does he go to practice excited about learning and the other kids are bored and drawing in the dirt? Surround your son with like minded kids. They will feed off of each other and make each other better. Find a coach that loves to teach as much as he loves to win. Having fun at baseball can mean a totally different thing to different kids.

You're right, Coach May. We've been extremely lucky with teams and coaches. My son was one of those who came home from practice and wanted to practice some more. Now that he's in HS, he does the same thing. It pais

As for pitching BP, one learns quickly to duck behind the screen! Sometimes I can hear the ball whiz by.

When my son was younger, we had one of those little TPX blue pitching machines. It was great and we used it for 3 years or so, until he turned 12. Then we broke it trying to increase the velocity with a bigger spring. My husband can't throw a strike to save his life. My son wanted to hit real baseballs, and I couldn't afford one of the nice pitching machines, so, what do you know, I gave it a shot. I also learned that I can actually hit decent grounders to him if I use his old 19 oz big barrel bat - I can't handle the -3. It's a workout! But it makes that Saturday afternoon glass of cold sauvignon blanc taste even better!

Is it 5:00 yet...?

Notlong, are you with Boys of Baseball? My son played with them in a tournament here in Gainesville a couple of years ago.

quote:

It pais

Oops - got interrupted by someone admiring my D-Rays shirt on casual Friday. What I meant to say is:

It paid off. And continues to pay off.

Yes. We played with Boys of Baseball at Gainesville in December. It's a great program that allows kids to get together from many different areas to play together and to get a chance to go to Cooperstown at 12YO. We live in a small community of less than 8,000. Thus, we travel all around for baseball.

My son's coach on that team is a scout for the Giants. Incidentally, his AAA coach was a scout for the DRays...

This is another example of how it is good to get outside of your little pond once in awhile if you can. We played the Alabama Viper BB Academy twice while we were there. It had a profound effect on my son in that there were three hitters on that team who hit balls to 240 and beyond.

My son is a big strong hitter but, up until that point, he had never hit a ball that landed beyond 200' (close but no cigar). He worked hard in his lessons during the summer getting more out of his lower body and then attended an excellent camp in August. During the camp he crushed one that landed 270 (a pull hit) and has had another game hit since that went 230.

I dont think he believed that he could hit a ball that far until he saw others doing it. I think bigger kids and kids that grow early can limit their development because their size is doing more for them than their talent. I am hoping that my son maximizes his hitting ability while he is bigger, so that he has more experience and better mechanics when the other kids catch up on the growth.

Meanwhile... I have to seriously think about protection for the BP I will throw him at 7:30am tomorrow before Try Outs...

D

My son had four HRs including a grand slam at Cooperstown! Now he's hitting one-hoppers to the 320 fence.

You are right about the big guys, and are approaching it the right way. My son plays up, and is considered "small" (70th percentile in height and weight for his age group - he was 11 in Cooperstown ). Click, clack, can you hear us coming...

I hope your tryouts went beautifully. Good luck to you and your son!

I don't believe it makes any difference at all where a kid plays until he hits the big field. I've seen plenty of 46/60 and 50/70 studs turn to duds when they hit the 60/90 field. Some kids were just early bloomers who stopped growing. My 15U son refers to those as studs who turned to spuds.

Ultimately developing innate talent is going to be more important than where a kid played when he was little. You can't buy talent. A kid will start to display his talent (or lack of) on the big field. And when you get to 14U, 13U seems like slow motion.

My son played LL and some travel from 9-12. The purpose of the travel was to play more baseball, nothing more. When he was eleven and twelve his LL all-star team played into August anyway.

Other than he had fun in the 9-12 years, his accomplishments are irrelevant to me. They were accomplishments on a smaller field. What matters is entering high school this fall playing USSSA Majors on a regular basis starting at 13U and 14U has prepared him to the point where he's been invited to tryout out for varsity in the spring.

Last weekend his (just turned) 15U team played in a 17U tournament. Now I'm impressed. I watched my fourteen year old son not bite on hard breaking balls in the dirt. I watched him get quality swings on mid 80's fastballs. He's ready for high school now. Nothing he did on a small field had anything to do with it other than learning fundamentals and building a passion for the game of baseball.

There's one other thing my son learned in 9/10 rec ball. He learned patience, self control and what part of the game he can control. He learned he control the quality of his pitch, but he can't control what his fielder's do with the play. I told him when he got older he would have better fielder's behind him so don't worry about what he can't control.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
Does your son cry when his team loses and the other kids just want to know where the juice box is?

I saw this at the 12U World Series this year, from a couple of different teams.

Mommy, where's the kool-aid???

I don't think you can argue the benefits of playing on a quality travel/elite team. Generally better coaching, better competition ,more games and so on. The biggest benefit is the confidence that come with facing great ball players. Is this necessary at a young age ? Probably not but once you reach 14/15 it is a good idea.
My son played for 4 teams prior to the year he went to cpllege and it was easy to compare. No camparison between elite travel ball. The work ethic as you got to midget was far better. We were lucky our city had great instruction even at AAA city ball but the competition was no where near as good.
I would say that it is not necessary but recommended. It can be very hard to break into a travel team lineup especially if the player is not up on his skill training. Many people get a false sense of players ability when they play against poor competition. I have seen many tryouts where these players look very bad against properly trained players. Many not knowing what to do when ball is put in play. Pitchers atanding on the mound as ball is put in play. Not knowing their cuts etc. This stuff has to come insticntively. Unless they have been drilled from an early age they come off looking poorly.
The designation of AAA or the other letters down to D in Ontario is based on city population. Our city of 140,000 people is a AA city. You can play up to AAA but you cannot play down below AA. It is much like US HSs which are 5A, 4A etc.

I don't think these teams are necessary at that age. But boy, those sure were fun times. Why would you want to miss out?

If it's because it's just not your son's thing, then why worry about it? If he doesn't see a future for himself in the game, then let him play or not play as he sees fit. There are a lot of choices for extracurricular interests and maybe baseball isn't going to be his.

If it's because you don't want the stress (time wise or financially), that is also legitimate. The family's needs do come ahead of the desires of an individual child.

For our part, we saw some talented kids and we felt they would profit long term from assuring that they had coaches who were more than babysitters. Coaches who knew the game and could teach it, but who could also handle young kids the proper way -- keeping it fun, keeping it safe, and avoiding the throbbing vein/screaming fit kind of thing. (And we saw way too much of THAT over the years -- from coaches AND parents!)

Nine years after we got started, about half of our players have D-I scholarship deals lined up (class of 2008). Hopefully there will be more. I think about that with some pride these days.

Is it necessary? Of course not. But I agree with the comment above that baseball has a lot of nuances and the more you play the more you absorb. The more you play, the closer you will get to being what you are capable of being.

If you see in your son that inner drive that tells you he is going to be a competitor the rest of his life, I would recommend travel ball as young as age 9.

If he doesn't seem ready at age 9 but at age 11 or 12 he's interested, that's not too late to take the plunge and try to catch up to the competition.

But if you wait much past age 13, you may as well forget the debate, because at that point he'll be so far behind his competition that the likelihood of playing at the high school level is slight.

No

quote:

But if you wait much past age 13, you may as well forget the debate, because at that point he'll be so far behind his competition that the likelihood of playing at the high school level is slight.

Midlo,
I just don't agree with your conclusion. I think TG is 100% correct when he says that, for most players, none of it matters all that much until you get on a regulation diamond/field.
I think that is especially true in Northern CA where there are very strong little league programs in a lot of areas and many strong high school programs with very good coaches.
For boys, most of them don't begin to mature until ages 15 and above. There are so many strength and growth changes that if a player has had good instruction by the time he gets to 14-15, his skills can develop just fine with him beginning travel ball at that point.
As a point of comparison, the very best player from our area when our son was 12, didn't even play in high school because he was physically matured as a 12 and the regulation diamond exposed that. When our son was 12, he was a good player but was physically small. He began to grow when he was 15/16. From that point, he was able to compete with the best players at every level through minor league baseball.

Deldad had the right answer , NO. They are not necessary. But are they helpfull? Yes , if the coaching is quality and its about getting better and learning and not all about winning. I too have seen numerous 12 year old boys that were head and shoulders above everyone else at that age. But the vast majority if not all were advanced physically for their age. When they moved up to the regulation field and the other boys had caught up in growth the roles almost always reversed. Not always but alot of the times. The biggest thing imo a parent needs to focus on is the COACH. Someone that can inspire , teach the game and foster an evironment where having fun is getting better and working hard is having fun. jmho

Boy the number of perspectives her keeps expanding and it's a great discussion.

The geography aspect is really interesting. I think there are very legitimate arguments that in certain areas, Little League programs can be extensive with great competitive and development opportunities. In an old post, one fellow (from California I think) mentioned tracking LL players at 10 YO when there were over 300 players in their LL to some older age to see how many players were still playing. We live in a community of 8000 and this past summer played in a centre with a population of 85,000. In that city House League and travel totals less than 50 kids! They share the House League (Rec ball) with a larger community. In a number of instances, the House League coaches have barely played the game. If a kid goes through House League like that for a number of years, I would argue the gap is very big. In our small town, a friend told me recently that there were kids on the local team who had not hit all season at 11YO!

I would agree that it is not a necessity to move to travel if you are in a strong competitive LL with quality coaching.

My son is fortunate to have seen and played with players his own age in/from Toronto, Buffalo, Boston, Baltimore, Alabama, Pennsylvania, Connecticutt, Georgia, and Florida. In most instances, these players are from Travel Ball backgrounds and we have learned a lot about their programs back home. In some areas such as our own, I would guess that travel ball offers a markedly different development opportunity than rec ball.

It has been my experience that most rec program coaches in our area do not give good instruction on proper swing mechanics. Through training resources, my son has been taught to use a light bat, short swing and use his lower body at the plate. We have been working on hard line drives up the middle this summer and lately his trainer has been trying to get him to hit drives with backspin. He is trying out with a new travel team this year and the four coaches (all non-parents) all expect this style of hitting.

I am not saying this is the way it is elsewhere but the rec ball players at Try Outs (half of the kids) in this particular city are at a serious disadvantage in this scenario. They have played just under half of the games as the other incumbent kids who have been instructed by great coaches. It is obvious that most of them have not been instructed in swing mechanics. About half of them could barely hit coach pitch at the last Try Out day. Further, they are not prepared for the speed jump in pitching they will see from travel players next weekend. I must admit that the coaches are giving the kids every fair chance to make the team. The kids are just not prepared. This team is preparing to take a run at Nationals in two years and I think that the gap is going to become even greater for rec ball players over that time.

Two years ago, my son played up a year in Rec ball. He lucked out and had a superb coach who taught fundamentals regularly. This coach had coached travel ball with an older son for about 6 years. That is certainly not the norm here. I dont believe half of the rec coaches could teach a proper run-down or how to slide or know why to slide for that matter. My feeling is that it would not be the case in rec ball in Texas, California, or Florida or many other baseball hotbeds.

I am sure there are other areas where travel ball is almost a necessity.

Respectfully,

D

Notlong you are surrounded by some strong areas of BB. Cambridge,waterloo and the whole intercounty area provides some very good BB. It is possible to get on a good team and get excellent instruction. Frozen ropes in Guelph and many other good instructopnal places.
Our area is also full of quality programs since we are 60 min from Toronto. Most of the Elite teams draw from a 100 mile radius and even further. It is hard to imagine not playing at least OBA travell if not Elite. There is no comparison to Rec/House league.

Hi Bobble:

I am jumping around too much in the discussion. We have just finished a year of travel in one of those centres (I was an Asst Coach) and my son is in the process of Try Outs for Travel in another one of those centres.

I agree - there is no comparison between House League and Travel (Rep) ball in this area. I was tryng to illustrate a point that in some geographic areas (such as ours), there is a great disparity between Recreational teams and Travel teams. In others, such as California (I made a point to watch LL games in Thousand Oaks when I was down there on business when I could), Rec Ball and most importantly Rec Ball Coaching is strong. I got the same sense when we were in Florida. I would say that in those places, there would be an argument that kids are not falling behind that much in their development and travel can wait.

I find that Rec ball players/parents/coaches here are not as aware of the training facilities and the great opportunities they provide.

My son has been at Frozen Ropes in Guelph since he was 8 YO. I believe that we have received some of the best instruction there as we have anywhere. He currently has both a pitching instructor (Mel) there and a hitting instructor. We attended a 12-16 High Performance Camp they put on recently and it was without doubt the best we have attended anywhere in the past three years (it was exhausting too). I should add that we have attended five other Ontario-based training facilities that you mentioned for various camps and private lessons over the years so far. The other clinic we attended was a Duane Ward Pitching Clinic in Etobicoke. Duane and a number of the World Series era Jays have started putting on clinics throughout the province with Nigel Wilson. Duane is the real deal - this was not just a signing event. Beyond the World Series Pitcher, he's a World Series trainer. He worked with my son pitch by pitch and pushed him to a new level. For pitching, this was high value and he's a great speaker and role model with the kids.

When my son is older, if he wants to go, we will take him to the Clemson and Tennessee Summer Camps. If he does nothing else in baseball, I think he will make a superb coach someday. His original pitching coach retired form Frozen Ropes back in the spring. A great baseball guy - I'm just glad that my son got to work with him.

Did you hear that Scott Diamond signed with the Braves recently? A guy that used to train at FR in the cages beside us. Great guy.

D

I am not sure about under 12. I did notice a big difference between young players who transitioned from 50/70 to 60'6/90. It took the LL kids alot longer to acclimate themselves to the distance and some quit. I know a bunch of guys who are great LL coaches but they are few and far between. Travel ball is big commitment and you MUST do your research. Ask current and ex players about their experience with a certain organization. We did an exhaustive amount of research on one program and it turned out pretty well. My son worked very hard and improved quite a bit. In addition my son has forged friendships with kids from other towns he would have never met playing rec ball.
Questions to ask:
How many players will team carry?
Will players rotate positions if feasible?
Incidental fundraising..what is the price no B.S.
What is your approach with pitchers? I have witnessed kids being pitched 6+/100 pitches in April. Thanks god we did not join that program!

Notlong I heard Scott had signed. Duane puts a good camp together. Another good one is Bseball Zone run by Rick Johnson.

Bobble: My son attended the Baseball Zone camp last year when they held it in Brampton. He has taken Catching clinics there and private hitting lessons as well.

The Frozen Ropes one was run in conjunction with Intercounty Terriers elite program. It was also attended by a fairly disciplined core of 12YO from Cambridge with a tremendous coach who has worked with them since Rookie Ball. That made it especially good for my son. They brought in Ron Pearson from BB Canada and a number of other guests. It was physically demanding enough that the instructors were pretty exhausted when it was done (by the fourth day, one of the instructors had thrown 800 pitches). They plan on making it a shorter 4 day session next year.

Must run...

D

That is a good camp to stay in touch with. RJ was the HC for the Ontario Youth team.

quote:

Originally posted by hitdapill:
I did notice a big difference between young players who transitioned from 50/70 to 60'6/90. It took the LL kids alot longer to acclimate themselves to the distance and some quit.

I coached a 13U travel team. The kids who only played LL didn't have any trouble at all making the transition to 60/90. They were athletes and baseball players. You're talking about four feet of pitching difference and ten feet of basepath. It's still small. It took about two weeks for base runners to learn to read pitcher's moves. It takes a day to teach a pitcher how to freeze runners. Some pitchers never learn a good move to first no matter where they play.

In the long run 46/60 or 50/70 isn't going to matter. In either case the cream will rise to the top and the rest will fall by the side of the road.