Are you a yeller?

Steve A. posted:

The vast majority of parents who are over the top on this issue do not even realize what they are doing. They are obviously well intentioned. They see & hear others doing the same & jump right in. It's almost like a reflex.

I have had several conversations with some of these parents after I felt comfortable enough with approaching the subject. The results have varied but on 2 occasions I have had the Mom of the offending Dad almost tackle me with a crying embrace thanking me. 

The Mom more often sees the pain of the reprimand & the Dad tends to see only the failure.

I don't think Mom or Dad likely knows enough about baseball to actually comment.  15u event two weekends ago heard a dad screaming at his kid, who was about to be up at bat, "Hit the top half of the ball!"....I again needed something from my car URGENTLY, and left the stands.

Even at the 7u-14u age groups the only advice I ever gave my son was "Breath" and  "Smile, your playing baseball!"...I actually said that one to a lot of kids at the younger levels, they were WAY too serious!  I never said a technical word, why, because I watch baseball on TV but am certainly not as, or more, knowledgeable than the coach. He handles technical.

2017LHPscrewball posted:

Heard a clip from Nick Saban while driving to work this morning.  He seemed to indicate, as has been pointed out here, that when he provides correction/teaching, that means he is interested in the kid getting better.  Contrast that with no correction/teaching and the inference is that the coaches no longer care about the kid's development.  He went on to differentiate between correction/teaching and calling out a kid for lack of effort - says lack of effort is within the control of the kid and that is a decision the kid makes.  Also said not knowing what to do (not being prepared) will get you called out - again the kid's decision to come to practice not prepared.  Not sure the entire coaching staff has this approach, but it certainly sounded good.

My younger son (11yo) played some catcher this past summer.  While I may have provide some "encouragement" that he needed to try harder to block everything, I tried to remain silent when he tried and failed.  Conversely, had to yell at him once when he abandoned home plate, presumably backing up third base (?).  He had a habit of picking up bats and walking away from home plate while ball was still in play.  We had talked about this before that he needs to remain in the game at all times, especially if he wants to play catcher, and doubly when runners are on base.  When he "backed up third" and the throw got past everyone - and runner scored - I had to yell some.  He knew he was not supposed to abandon hope plate, but got caught up in the action.  I sort of felt a brief "yell" would help finally cement this concept in his developing brain.  When he would catch after that, I would remind him "don't leave home" and he would simply smile.  

An effort "mistake" is fine with me.  Problem is most spectators (and in some cases coaches) don't know where a player should be and what they are expecting.  Kid's catching.  Ball hit, play is going to be at the plate.  Ball gets to the back stop.  His expectation -- pitcher is there backing up.  So he turns to cover home as the next player is coming.  BUUUUT the pitcher has his head up his butt.  He's not there.  Parents are yelling at my kid for "not hustling" to get the ball.   If he goes to get the ball, who covers home?  Duh. 

I like a coach who isn't afraid to yell at a player.  Sometimes my kid needs it.  It keeps him focused.  What makes him good at baseball is things don't seem to bother him.  Strike out, oh well, no big deal.  Bad play, no big deal, shut up and hit.  Never really emotional about the game.  Sometimes that turns into laziness.  So he needs a good "talking to."     

I've played for coaches that yelled a lot and, down to the last one, it was when they STOPPED yelling at you that you knew you were in trouble.

CaCO3Girl posted:

RedFishFool posted:

When son was 7, midway thru his first pitching machine year, the coach, a friend of mine, pulled me aside and told me to notice that my son looked at me after every swing, etc.  That caught my attention.  While a parent in the stands, I rarely made another comment to him out in public after that.

ps: I also rarely say a whole lot, even positive to any of his teammates, from the stands. I was always cautious that I would end up doing it for Johnny, Billy and Jose' but miss Hank & Jeremiah and then Hank & Jeremiah's parents would notice. I will clap, etc but was always cautious of doing saying much orally. Silly, maybe, but I am a bean counter and that's just how I am. 

Glad I'm not the only one.  I'll cheer for a great hit or catch but for the most part I'm very quiet for the exact same reason.

me too!  Unfortunately it took me a few years to figure it out, but the last two years I have been quiet.  I really like to just watch the game by myself in the outfield, I am sure some parents might take that as snubbing them or being anti-social, but that is who I am.

My son once played for a travel team where way too many of the parents were, shall we say, a bit volatile.   Not all were like that.  Some were actually great people.  Made a few lasting friendships from that crowd.  

Unfortunately, the  yellers didn't just  yell at their own kids.  They sometimes couldn't control themselves and would  yell at umps. at coaches from the other team, even,  on occasion at players from the other team, for things like hard take out slides.  

Sometimes it even  escalated into yelling matches between parents on the sidelines.     It didn't help that our coaches were, shall we say, a bit asshole-ish  themselves. Though they were  very good baseball guys, they could be way too bush league for my taste.

For example, we once won a championship game thanks to the  hidden ball trick  -- which the team practiced and used semi-regularly.   Unfortunately, this time the opposing team also had it share of, shall we say,   volatile players and  parents.  They got so worked up (and then our folks got worked up in return, not being the kind to back down from a shouting match), that we had to call the police to escort our parents and players away from the  field.

IT was ugly.    The parents on the  other team were  REALLY pissed at our coaches for what they regarded as completely bush league way to win a championship game.   They started yelling and screaming like crazy.

One of them came over and got in the face of  one of the parents on our side,   "how can you let your kid play for a coach that cheats like that.  You should be ashamed of yourself. I wouldn't let that coach near my son."  Thats when one the cooler heads on our side decide to call the cops.  

justbaseball posted:

Steve A. posted:

 

The Mom more often sees the pain of the reprimand & the Dad tends to see only the failure.

Good comment. 

I have heard/read psychologists say that the point above is key.  Dad has a role, Mom another in some things.  That doesn't mean Dad's role is to yell.  Just maybe dads are a little tougher on sons in particular, moms are the soft landing - that is good!  That tension you outline above, so long as not out of control, is needed.

My wife tends to be tougher on our daughters than me....just another angle.

(BTW, I wasn't saying above its ok to yell - just that I did a few times (never about a physical mistake), and things worked out ok - so I'm not ready to label parents who do as bad people.  Some are, some aren't.  And yes, I should've not yelled some of the times that I did).

I was SO much harder on my daughter than DK.  The only time I really went mad was over grades. The other stuff didn't matter. 

As you know, as the stakes get higher, so does anxiety. Mom's seem to be more protective of their sons, and that turns into worry. 

I am just wondering why dads always seem to be living their dreams through their sons, while mom's don't live their dreams through their daughters?

I think the most important point is that we all care very much about our children's success, some folks couldn't care less and that's just sad.

JMO

TPM posted:

justbaseball posted:

Steve A. posted:

 

The Mom more often sees the pain of the reprimand & the Dad tends to see only the failure.

Good comment. 

I have heard/read psychologists say that the point above is key.  Dad has a role, Mom another in some things.  That doesn't mean Dad's role is to yell.  Just maybe dads are a little tougher on sons in particular, moms are the soft landing - that is good!  That tension you outline above, so long as not out of control, is needed.

My wife tends to be tougher on our daughters than me....just another angle.

(BTW, I wasn't saying above its ok to yell - just that I did a few times (never about a physical mistake), and things worked out ok - so I'm not ready to label parents who do as bad people.  Some are, some aren't.  And yes, I should've not yelled some of the times that I did).

I was SO much harder on my daughter than DK.  The only time I really went mad was over grades. The other stuff didn't matter. 

As you know, as the stakes get higher, so does anxiety. Mom's seem to be more protective of their sons, and that turns into worry. 

I am just wondering why dads always seem to be living their dreams through their sons, while mom's don't live their dreams through their daughters?

I think the most important point is that we all care very much about our children's success, some folks couldn't care less and that's just sad.

JMO

The magic of Testosterone.  Wonderful little chemical that!

I'm not a yeller by nature, but even if I was it wouldn't make a difference. Jr. does not hear a single thing from anybody who is not on the field of play. He is usually totally in the zone and does not process a single thing outside of it. I wish I could say the same thing about his school work...

cluelessDad2019 posted:

I'm not a yeller by nature, but even if I was it wouldn't make a difference. Jr. does not hear a single thing from anybody who is not on the field of play. He is usually totally in the zone and does not process a single thing outside of it. I wish I could say the same thing about his school work...

LOL!  I think my favorite is when my son says AFTER a game "Mom, did you see that double in the 3rd?"....yes, obviously he's looking to me at all times in the stands just waiting for my approval, so much so he doesn't even know if I was there.

NO, I'M NOT A YELLER.

Caco-  I tend to coach from the sideline if you will.  Reminding him of certain set up or something.... Usually not a yeller.  But I noticed after any significant play, good or bad, he was looking at me...  Then one game I sort of lost my composure and was NOT a very good spectator or parent.  Not one of my crowning achievements.  I barked at him bad.  Told him a run was on HIM and to get his head out of his butt.   I barked hard and loud and long. 

I felt awful after.  Apologized to him and his coach.  Took up a position away from the field and stayed there from then on.  After games I don't talk about it unless he talks about it and even then its more recap.  No more coaching or correcting.  Its up to his coaches now.......

TPM posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

justbaseball posted:

Another thought:  Unless they play for a program I've never heard of, it is a guarantee they will get yelled at in college.  During games, during an AB, in a mound visit, after games, during practice.

I'm not advocating practicing getting yelled at, I'm just saying whether you ever do it or not, they will be yelled at in college.

Pro ball?  Completely different.

Can we agree that:

-a coach yelling instructions at a kid during an at bat is very different than a parent yelling instructions at a kid during an at bat?

-a coach yelling at a kid for letting the ball go through his legs is different than a parent doing it?

-a coach yelling at a kid while pitching to get back on his line, or keep his elbow up, is different than a parent yelling it?

I'm not opposed to yelling, I don't think it's going to "hurt" his feelings, I just don't think it's the parents place to do it.

Its NEVER appropriate to yell or chastise a player while on the field, never. It's a learning experience, a teachable moment and should be addressed when the player gets into the dugout.

Raising your voice to instruct a player is different than yelling and chastising.

 

Sorry this is about a month late but I'm a newbie.  I myself am not a yeller, I cheer good plays of all players, son included.  My thoughts are similar to what TMP posted.  Do it after the game during father/son time and see it as a learning experience. Couple of experiences:  

Son's D1 HC was a yeller.  Found out when he starts yelling majority of the player tune him out. One travel team HC had a policy and stuck by it, if your parent coaches you from the stands during the game, you pack your stuff and join them in the stands for the remainder of the game.

By the time a player reaches HS he knows what he did wrong.  Yelling may make you feel better but it achieves little in the overall picture.  Educate your son in a two way conversation and he will enjoy the game and participate longer.  Also, yellers may not really care but yes, we other parents will never forget you.

Kevin A posted:

Caco-  I tend to coach from the sideline if you will.  Reminding him of certain set up or something.... Usually not a yeller.  But I noticed after any significant play, good or bad, he was looking at me...  Then one game I sort of lost my composure and was NOT a very good spectator or parent.  Not one of my crowning achievements.  I barked at him bad.  Told him a run was on HIM and to get his head out of his butt.   I barked hard and loud and long. 

I felt awful after.  Apologized to him and his coach.  Took up a position away from the field and stayed there from then on.  After games I don't talk about it unless he talks about it and even then its more recap.  No more coaching or correcting.  Its up to his coaches now.......

I think I know you!!  Just kidding.  Being a student of the game doesn't mean just the player either.  I am always learning things about the game to this day, including behavior and confidence. Takes a special dad to admit his mistakes, correct it and follow through.  Good luck

Trust In Him posted:

Son's D1 HC was a yeller.  Found out when he starts yelling majority of the player tune him out. One travel team HC had a policy and stuck by it, if your parent coaches you from the stands during the game, you pack your stuff and join them in the stands for the remainder of the game.

Oh that rule would be awesome!  Although I think some teams might only have about 4 kids left on the field

Trust In Him posted:

TPM posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

justbaseball posted:

Another thought:  Unless they play for a program I've never heard of, it is a guarantee they will get yelled at in college.  During games, during an AB, in a mound visit, after games, during practice.

I'm not advocating practicing getting yelled at, I'm just saying whether you ever do it or not, they will be yelled at in college.

Pro ball?  Completely different.

Can we agree that:

-a coach yelling instructions at a kid during an at bat is very different than a parent yelling instructions at a kid during an at bat?

-a coach yelling at a kid for letting the ball go through his legs is different than a parent doing it?

-a coach yelling at a kid while pitching to get back on his line, or keep his elbow up, is different than a parent yelling it?

I'm not opposed to yelling, I don't think it's going to "hurt" his feelings, I just don't think it's the parents place to do it.

Its NEVER appropriate to yell or chastise a player while on the field, never. It's a learning experience, a teachable moment and should be addressed when the player gets into the dugout.

Raising your voice to instruct a player is different than yelling and chastising.

 

Sorry this is about a month late but I'm a newbie.  I myself am not a yeller, I cheer good plays of all players, son included.  My thoughts are similar to what TMP posted.  Do it after the game during father/son time and see it as a learning experience. Couple of experiences:  

Son's D1 HC was a yeller.  Found out when he starts yelling majority of the player tune him out. One travel team HC had a policy and stuck by it, if your parent coaches you from the stands during the game, you pack your stuff and join them in the stands for the remainder of the game.

By the time a player reaches HS he knows what he did wrong.  Yelling may make you feel better but it achieves little in the overall picture.  Educate your son in a two way conversation and he will enjoy the game and participate longer.  Also, yellers may not really care but yes, we other parents will never forget you.

Actually the game has changed along with how college coaches are instructed how to talk to their players, on and off of the mound. Coaches are reminded that if they need to instruct their players or tell them what they did wrong, it's done as they return to the dugout or you visit the mound.  While this may not always apply in most cases, some coaches know how to get the best performance from their players, and many dont.

This should also apply to how the HS or travel coach should conduct himself with player.

In my son's senior season his travel coach was a little upset with how son was performing on the mound. He called time out, went to the mound and proceeded to tell son his fly was open (which it wasnt). Mike Roberts, who passed away quite a few years ago, was that guy who always knew what to say to get positive results. 

FWIW, it's TPM.

I will shamefully admit I was a yeller and at times a real PITA tyrant. Since it didn't kill him or his playing career, I will take credit (#delusional) that surviving me proved to himself how much he loved the game and that he has the ability to handle any difficult coach.

On the topic of Parents yelling or coaching from the stands… 

There is one voice that a person will always hear and that is their parents. It can be a one run ball game in the bottom of the 7th inning and the stands are going nuts… your son will always hear your voice over all the others, to include the coaches voice. Its human nature, we all recognize and hear our parents voice over all others. 

Short version, there is no need for a parent to yell. Your kids will hear you, trust me.

bballdad2016 posted:

On the topic of Parents yelling or coaching from the stands… 

There is one voice that a person will always hear and that is their parents. It can be a one run ball game in the bottom of the 7th inning and the stands are going nuts… your son will always hear your voice over all the others, to include the coaches voice. Its human nature, we all recognize and hear our parents voice over all others. 

Short version, there is no need for a parent to yell. Your kids will hear you, trust me.

I have to say, my experience has been the exact opposite.  Perhaps it varies by kid.

CaCO3Girl posted:

bballdad2016 posted:

On the topic of Parents yelling or coaching from the stands… 

There is one voice that a person will always hear and that is their parents. It can be a one run ball game in the bottom of the 7th inning and the stands are going nuts… your son will always hear your voice over all the others, to include the coaches voice. Its human nature, we all recognize and hear our parents voice over all others. 

Short version, there is no need for a parent to yell. Your kids will hear you, trust me.

I have to say, my experience has been the exact opposite.  Perhaps it varies by kid.

Reality Check....  This was aired some years ago.  Hopefully you can see it or know someone who has HBO.  Of course, none of us are like these parents portrayed, they are HOPEFULLY the extreme for a story. 

http://www.hbo.com/sports/stat...ophy-kids/index.html

Also, if you've never seen Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel, definately worth a look.

Trust In Him posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

bballdad2016 posted:

On the topic of Parents yelling or coaching from the stands… 

There is one voice that a person will always hear and that is their parents. It can be a one run ball game in the bottom of the 7th inning and the stands are going nuts… your son will always hear your voice over all the others, to include the coaches voice. Its human nature, we all recognize and hear our parents voice over all others. 

Short version, there is no need for a parent to yell. Your kids will hear you, trust me.

I have to say, my experience has been the exact opposite.  Perhaps it varies by kid.

Reality Check....  This was aired some years ago.  Hopefully you can see it or know someone who has HBO.  Of course, none of us are like these parents portrayed, they are HOPEFULLY the extreme for a story. 

http://www.hbo.com/sports/stat...ophy-kids/index.html

Also, if you've never seen Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel, definately worth a look.

Perhaps the difference is that some parents have been yelling instructions at their kids from 6u.  I could see a kid hearing that voice.  However, as a parent who has not yelled at his kid to keep his head in or which part of the ball to hit or all the other things parents yell, if I was to yell something I doubt he would hear it.  I'm not a baseball authority in his head.  

I swear I stand two feet away from him and tell him to clean his room and he doesn't hear it...then again that could be all teenage boys.

I coached every level from t-ball thru 16U travel.  I'll admit, I was probably a yeller...lol.   But I also expected the best out of the kids.  We were a small town, my son's class and the one above him that he played with was probably the most competitive group of kids in the history of our town so they all were kind of the same way....they just all wanted to win....so I don't think I offended anyone

Funny....last week my son texted me while he and a friend were watching the LLWS.  He said "hey, me and Herman were just talking about what would have happened if we made it to the LLWS.....cause you wouldn't have come out to the mound and tell us how great we were doing when were were sucking"   I took that as a compliment....I think

Caco - what I mean by a kid hearing their parents voice over others (voice recognition) is this... The next time you are at the mall with your Son, let him get 10-15ft in front of you without him knowing.  Then call his name at a moderate level.  Odds are, he will hear you over the hustle and bustle of shoppers and music.  How this translates into sports.... If a player is being coached from the dugout as well as the stands, it is sometimes difficult for the player to completely tune out the stands (or parents voice).  Mother nature just wont allow it. 

And its all teenage boys when it comes to cleaning their room.  They hear us just fine, they just don't listen. 

When your mind is focused on the game, you have a hard time hearing in general.