Arod-when is enough enough

He is the best baseball player ever probably.

But when it comes to the big games - he is The Cooler.

I said it two years ago - I said it last year - and I will say it again this year.

Dont know why - just know that he is Dry Ice in the post season.

Arod is a great player, but just some player that plays...no feelings at all for the individual. He's not a great guy, but neither is he an outward putz like Bonds. I find myself rooting for the good guys in the league. Arod I like to watch for his achievment, but I don't care if he flounders or if the press rips him, fair or unfair.

Actually I don't mind watching him choke.

He is a great player, with a monkey in his back.

Just like Peyton Mannings Super bowl monkey, Arod has the playoff monkey. He needs to get rid of the monkey. He has a long career ahead of him, he will eventually shake the monkey and monkey will have to find a new home.

btw. When Manning shook his monkey, dam thing packed up and moved to San Diego. whodathunkit!

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Fausto Carmona threw him some of the nastiest pitches I have ever seen.

deldad - He may be the best pitcher in baseball right now. Everyone knows what is coming and they still can't hit it. The best offensive team in baseball managed 3 hits in 9 innings off of him. One of the hits should have been an out if not for a lazy play by ss. The homerun he gave up was Victor Martinez's fault imho. No one had proven they could hit his mid 90's sinker so there was no need to speed up Cabrerra's bat with a slider imho.

Interesting. I read several of the New York papers and predictably they are harping on what the Yankees didn't do and blaming the bugs. Sure glad I know now that the Indians had nothing to do with it

ClevelandDad, I didn't get to see the Beckett performance, just the highlights, but I find it hard to believe that it was better that Fausto's. The other thing lost in that game was the great performance by Pettite. He is the definition of big game pitcher. With the Angels going down in flames, and the Cubs about to begin the search for next year, I think I will jump on the Cleveland and Colorado bandwagon.

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Originally posted by deldad: The media will kill him if they loss to Cleveland. He deserves better after the year he had. I think he needs to kill a live chicken or something to take the hex off. Go Indians,

Jake Taylor proved that a family size bucket of the Colonels Original Recipe was a successful substitute. Us "born in the city" Clevelanders have had enough 2nd place finishes to the Yanks(historically).

Let the AROD slump continue on..........GO TRIBE!!

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Let the AROD slump continue on..........GO TRIBE!!

Amen

Beckett is obviously unbelievable as well. I also like the Rockies deldad. Their GM Dan O'Dowd (sp) used to work for John Hart when they were with the Indians. Mark Shapiro another Hart protoge should be executive of the year for getting the Indians into the playoffs on one of the smaller payrolls. Pittsburgh just hired another Hart guy (Neil Huntington) to be thier GM.

Arod is a tragic figure in many ways. He was no worse than anyone else against Carmona and basicly got pitched around in game 1. He doesn't have protection in the line up like Ortiz. Matsui is no protection behind Arod, batting about .150 over the last month or two.

I watched Beckett and Carmona this week. Beckett had laser precision throwing about 90 strikes, 95-98 down in the zone, on the edges, with excellent life,and hard secondary pitches. Carmona threw just as hard with more life but a little less command. He was a little wilder in the zone, threw more balls, but was just as effective, maybe more so with the exception of missing to Cano, or was it Cabrerra. From start to finish Beckett's outing was sick. Maybe 1 or two got past first base. Both outings remind me that October baseball is the highest quality, every year.

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Originally posted by TripleDad:

Tripledad - Nice monkey!

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Originally posted by deldad:
I think I will jump on the Cleveland and Colorado bandwagon.

I'll scoot over for you deldad...there's room for one more up here.
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Is it just me...or does that monkey look like he's playing charades?

I have it, I have it...The McCoys..."Hang on Sloopy"

I think the bandwagon is playing The Standells classic Dirty Water

And my beanpot doth runneth over!

YUMMO DELISH!!

Just a little food for thought on A-Rod:

Through 2004, career postseason stats:

26 games:
*103 at bats *17 runs *34 hits *8 2B *6 HR *16 RBI *3 SB *Batting Average .330

Since 2004 (11 Games):
*35 At Bats *2 Runs *3 Hits *1 2B *0 HR *0 RBI *1 SB *Batting Average .086

I am of the thinking that he should be cut some slack, but his contract doesn't allow for that. He is human and I'm sure that this funk is in his head, but before you mark him off as the biggest choke artist of all time, remember that he has had postseason success before.

Take a look at these postseason stats (31 Games):

*106 AB *21 H *6 2B *1 3B *1HR *8 RBI *9 SB *Batting Average .198

Any guess to whose stats these are?

They would be Barry Bonds' career stats, minus the 2002 postseason when he went off. As I remember, he was the looked at by many as the biggest choke artist in baseball until 2002. All A-Rod needs IMO is a big postseason to make everyone forget his RECENT postseason struggles. I for one hope he does.

beemax- I agree. But no one thinks of Bonds as a post-season hero today, so that comparison is slightly off because even though he did not do well until a "breakout" year, that isn't what he is known for.

A-Rod is hands down the most talented player in MLB and could go down as the greatest to ever live. But he is being paid THE money and playing in THE city. If you can't handle the pressure, don't cry about it, get out. But don't keep screwing up. If he is supposedly that good then he should be able to overcome whatever mental lapses he is having.

J H,

I wasn't saying that Bonds was considered a postseason hero, but he is not looked at as the goat he was before 2002 ( although his 2002 postseason was about as good as anyone has ever had). If A-Rod was to have a postseason where he hit .300 with 4 or 5 homers, everybody would jump off the "choking in the postseason" bandwagon. I agree that the team and the contract merit greatness in the postseason, I am just trying to show a slighty different perspective here. He should be able to overcome his slump, and again, I hope he does.

ARod is in 'pull the ball mode' again.

He has to loosen up and use the whole field like he has been doing all season.

Wouldn't hurt if the other eight guys carried their weight either.

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just my opinion, when a rod had those better post season numbers he played for seattle and texas. nobody expected much from those teams,except the fans in those citys. with his present team they expect the full monty. and he may not or does not deal well with that pressure. he's only human is right,but he gets a super human pay check .that's what turns the tide on him. he can have a break out year some other time, sox vs indians that's the battle i want this year.
go sox

A-Rod ... luv the guy,

he can go 0'forever in Oct & it doesn't bother me the least bit

Don't worry infidel...I'll only show his big, beautiful fully restored...truck. A Dodge Power Wagon at that!

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Originally posted by Quincy:
ARod is in 'pull the ball mode' again.

He has to loosen up and use the whole field like he has been doing all season.

Wouldn't hurt if the other eight guys carried their weight either.

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Quincy, dead on IMO ! I know that it's easier said that done most of the time but he needs to simply approach it as just another game. He'll play more relaxed and then you'll see him start using the whole field once again. I'm not a huge Yankees fan but I am an A-rod fan ! ...... where's Mr. November in this post season?

I'm with ya Beemax.

I'm a firm believer that professionals don't choke, they may have a bad game or a group of bad games at the wrong time, but if you empty the bag out on the table you are going to find those "streaks" throughout their careers and at different times of the year. It's called a slump during the regular season, and choking during the playoffs. It's an armchair quarterback mindset.. What I don't understand is those who know the game understand what focus it takes to get to that level and then when a "legend"hits a bump at the wrong time their called a choker.

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rz...

Now you've gone and done it...you brought reality and logic into the argument...

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What I don't understand is those who know the game understand what focus it takes to get to that level and then when a "legend"hits a bump at the wrong time their called a choker.

it's easy ... most who are fans & understand "the game" consider post season play - "THE GAME"

The Yankees are in the post season thanks to the super year that "the super Hero Alex Rodriguez" had.
Mr. post season (Jeter) didn't nothing for the team the whole year, and now (that is his time), did nothing either. Honesty, the regular season that A-rod had is enough for his pay check. Let now other 24 guys do something for theirs.

I agree with Racab. It's time for everyone else to step up.

I really wish that Arod would go to a team where fans would appreciate him and not just what he does in the postseason. Maybe he would be able to get that monekey off his back.

ARod was in Seattle in 1995, when the Mariner's made there first playoff's by beating the Angels in a one game playoff for the Div. Title.
NY went up on Seattle 2 games to 0 in a 5 game series.
OK Seattle had Arod a rookie, Ken Griffey JR., in his prime,
Randy Johnson Carrying the Pitching staff on his back.

You know who the Hero was??

EDGER MARTINEZ.

Edger will be coming up for the HOF in a couple of years.
And I hope he would be considered.
He played in Seattle, But was mr. automatic to Mariner fans.

What Edger proceeded to do to the YANKEES in the next 3 Games of that Series, Should go down as one of the best if not the best Come from Behind Performance's of all Time by one Player.

ARod could our Should of learned something from that Performance.

EH

agree recab.

Ya know, AROD should learn a little from MANNY..
I get the biggest kick out of Manny at the plate.
The other night, I not sure if Mannny knew he was in the batters box or waiting in line for a snowcone. And then...YAK bye bye.

Edgar will always be one of my favorites; I hope he makes the Hall on his first ballot. What a pure swing he had!

I drove up to Seattle to watch his last game, which also was the year Ichiro was setting the hits record. I got great pictures of both Edgar's last swing and Ichiro's swing on his final hit of the year.

As the game ended, and Edgar made his curtain calls, the atmosphere was amazing. Those fans LOVE Edgar, and for good reason.

A great guy, a great hitter, and great in the clutch.

I am not the expert but just my perception of post season these days.

You can have 25 of the best players in baseball on a roster come post season.

If the players are not on the same page, it ain't gonna happen.

This is why I enjoy the teams making post season with young players on their roster ,teams that have not seen post season in a while. kids that are not making nearly as much as the players on teams they are facing. They seem to have the "spark" to get to their goal more than the superstars.

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by rz: those who know the game understand what focus it takes to get to that level

agree & I gotta love it when the FOCUS of their fans & media is critiquing own players/post season trends, history, w/some even talking about "next year" .. did I mention gnats?

I just hope they don't boo their own guys if Westbrook has a good game

we like & want the NY fans/media back in here next week

news reports say Tribe traveled with addtional staff

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Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
I am not the expert but just my perception of post season these days.

You can have 25 of the best players in baseball on a roster come post season.

If the players are not on the same page, it ain't gonna happen.

This is why I enjoy the teams making post season with young players on their roster ,teams that have not seen post season in a while. kids that are not making nearly as much as the players on teams they are facing. They seem to have the "spark" to get to their goal more than the superstars.

These are all good points but I ask people to consider one other thing. The Diamondbacks, the Rockies, and the Indians all represent the young buck teams where their players are not as well recognized. Some of the best players in the game may currently be on these teams however regardless if people know who they are. I would throw Detroit into the mix here as well. Money does not necessarily dictate who has the best players or the best team which may ultimiately be more important. The Cleveland Plain Dealer noted this morning that Clemons, Jeter, and A-Rod make more money than the entire Indians roster combined. What has this gotten them? An 0-2 record on the brink of elimination. Steinbrener has now played the fire the manager card if they don't win. I have no sympathy whatsoever for them including A-Rod. I hope he hits 100 homers in the regular season next year.

CD,
Good point. And you are correct, some of these teams have some of the the best players (not highest paid) in baseball right now. And a large part of them don't make more than minimum.

Playing fire the manager card is a scapegoat. IMO. Managers are limited to what management gives you. Managers are becoming more comfortable with bringing up from their farm and more teams are trading for younger players being brought up on good farm systems. Just this week, STL longtime GM is gone, lots of talk it's time to start concentrating and depending more on youth than expensive trades.

I think I posted this once, heard a interview with Cashman. He said that George would love to cut his spending and find younger more talented players, but that requires a growing period for the younger guys and fans would never accept it. Smaller market teams have been willing to take chances and while losing some of their fan base for awhile, have proved that it can work. But I see a trend that NYY also are beginning to join the "youth" movement.

Regardless, I see baseball philosophies changing and that is good for those who wish to pursue a career.

Regardless of talent, though, I see an enthusiasm among the youngsters that money can't buy.

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Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
The Cleveland Plain Dealer noted this morning that Clemons, Jeter, and A-Rod make more money than the entire Indians roster combined. What has this gotten them? An 0-2 record on the brink of elimination.

The money the Yankees spend have them in the chase every year which translates to revenue generation. They also have the money due to a cable package that is bigger than the next five teams combined (as of when I read it three years ago).

The teams that don't have the big money fade in and out of the chase every couple of years. They can't afford the talent, or to resign the young talent that keeps them consistantly in the hunt. But as each one of these small market teams makes their run, it's a great story.

REGARDING AROD:

I believe ARod has to return to the Yankees. He could go to another team and lead them to multiple rings with great postseasons. But the rap would always be he couldn't do it on the big stage. For the frosting on his legacy he has to lead the Yankees to the promised land. However, if ARod wants to return to short with the Red Sox I'm willing to live with his tainted legacy.

ALL things including salary considered: A-Rod or Mike Lowell?

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Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
Playing fire the manager card is a scapegoat.

Ya think? When George threatened Torre with his job for not succeeding in the postseason, but said (apparently without irony) that he would welcome A-Rod back in 2008?

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Originally posted by Orlando:

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Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
Playing fire the manager card is a scapegoat.

Ya think? When George threatened Torre with his job for not succeeding in the postseason, but said (apparently without irony) that he would welcome A-Rod back in 2008?

Well, I think he sent a strong message to the team to get their rears in gear and hope he will always allow Torre to leave on his own terms. The man has to be a saint to put up with management.