ASU Sanctions

The NCAA has also begun its own investigation into the violations, which include approximately 500 impermissible telephone calls by the baseball coaching staff from January 2004 to June 2009 and the recruitment of a prospective student-athlete by an impermissible recruiter. ......

..... This year's team is 31-4 and ranked No. 1 by Baseball America under coach Tim Esmay.

The team still went to the CWS and this years team is ranked #1. It looks like cheating pays. Losing a couple of scholarships isn't exactly getting hammered in penalties. I'll bet the NCAA doesn't do much more to them. NCAA sanctions are a joke. When are they actually going to come down on a team for cheating?

They apparently realized that if you punish yourself fairly severely, the NCAA hammer might not hit you as hard when they make a ruling later. You hate to see the present guys suffering for past sins, but there is still a chance of that happening with the NCAA ruling still awaited.

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Originally posted by RJM:
The NCAA has also begun its own investigation into the violations, which include approximately 500 impermissible telephone calls by the baseball coaching staff from January 2004 to June 2009 and the recruitment of a prospective student-athlete by an impermissible recruiter. ......

..... This year's team is 31-4 and ranked No. 1 by Baseball America under coach Tim Esmay.

The team still went to the CWS and this years team is ranked #1. It looks like cheating pays. Losing a couple of scholarships isn't exactly getting hammered in penalties. I'll bet the NCAA doesn't do much more to them. NCAA sanctions are a joke. When are they actually going to come down on a team for cheating?

Losing scholarships in baseball is a big deal as you only have 11.7.

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Originally posted by pioneers3:

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
The NCAA has also begun its own investigation into the violations, which include approximately 500 impermissible telephone calls by the baseball coaching staff from January 2004 to June 2009 and the recruitment of a prospective student-athlete by an impermissible recruiter. ......

..... This year's team is 31-4 and ranked No. 1 by Baseball America under coach Tim Esmay.

The team still went to the CWS and this years team is ranked #1. It looks like cheating pays. Losing a couple of scholarships isn't exactly getting hammered in penalties. I'll bet the NCAA doesn't do much more to them. NCAA sanctions are a joke. When are they actually going to come down on a team for cheating?

Losing scholarships in baseball is a big deal as you only have 11.7.

Not as big as losing half of them or having the program shut down or being banned from post season play for multiple years. Whether it's baseball or another sport the cheating isn't going to stop until there's a huge price to pay for getting caught.

I doubt losing two rides at a state school will impact the program. Players are still going to want to play at ASU. Take away post season competition for multiple years and watch top level players not want to be part of the program.

The people that did the cheating are the ones that need to be punished. Why punishing those left in the wake is a good way to do this is beyond me.

Investigate the situation. Determine who actually violated the rules. Then punish them. Dont punish the players that did not cheat.

How is taking scholarships away from a program fixing the problem if the people that actually did the cheating are no longer there? Go after those resonsible for the actual cheating and dont allow them to simply walk away and start over somewhere else without penalty. JMO

A cheating program has to become an undesirable location for recruits. Then cheating will stop. Any innocent players in the program should be allowed to transfer without penalty. A cheating coach, AD, etc. should be on probation whether he stays or leaves for another institution. If a coach on probation leaves for another program he takes the probation with him. That should prevent anyone from hiring him. Whether you agree with my ideas or not I'm sure you'll agree the slap on the wrist method being used now isn't working.

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Originally posted by Coach_May:
The people that did the cheating are the ones that need to be punished. Why punishing those left in the wake is a good way to do this is beyond me.

Investigate the situation. Determine who actually violated the rules. Then punish them. Dont punish the players that did not cheat.

How is taking scholarships away from a program fixing the problem if the people that actually did the cheating are no longer there? Go after those resonsible for the actual cheating and dont allow them to simply walk away and start over somewhere else without penalty. JMO

I see where you're coming from coach and somewhat agree. However, I like to compare this to a corporation who dumps toxic waste. In the end it's the corporation who gets fined/penalized and the competition reaps the benefits of the lost contracts. Do the employees get hurt? Yes, but, that may be the price paid working for them. Actually, if the employees/players were turning their backs on the infractions they may have been part of the problem .

It's an ugly world out there sometimes.

Since my son will be playing at ASU next year I have some relevant thoughts on this, at least relevant to our family.

1. Lot of stones have been thrown, but few actually understand the situation. I believe a good understanding of the transgressions leads to the conclusion that the school actually has imposed penalties on itself greater than the violations. Among those -- and one that often is overlooked -- is the dismissal of one of the most successful coaches in the nation, especially over the last five years.

2. The loss of scholarships is very significant to those players who now will not have the assistance (beginning in 2011).

3. It will be a dream for my son (and our family) to play at ASU, with or without sanctions. That said, I hope that he does not have to pay a price for a bunch of minor stuff incurred by others who are no longer at the school.

4. I hope I never have to stand in judgement before RJM.

5. Once again, Coach May has demonstrated remarkable wisdom and understanding.

6. I am constantly amazed at the number of people looking for retribution for the sake of retribution. We might be happier as a nation with a little more sensitivity toward one another.

7. I highly doubt that anyone at ASU will be violating even the smallest of rules anytime soon.

I am not sure what the debate is about here. The situation was investigated and proper sanctions were imposed. These are the same sanctions that any college would suffer if they broke the rules.
About 6-7 years ago my son's college had similar punishment for a recruiting violation. The coach was fired and scholarships lost.
It hurt the school and the players who loved the coach. This sounds fair and equitable to me.

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4. I hope I never have to stand in judgement before RJM.

I offered a generic solution to end cheating in college sports. With the current rules and slaps on the wrist the cheating will never end. At 31-4 ASU is reaping the benefits of cheating. While they had wins removed from a previous season the team still experienced the CWS. I have nothing personal against ASU (I save it all for ND, right Jimmy ). I would suggest the same for any other program or sport.

This is somewhat of a tough dilemma on how to punish an institution that certainly profits from the cheating without hurting the present innocent players too much. The same thing arises in business when the government slaps down a business or financial institution that did wrong and many innocent stockholders are hurt financially. I think you take a chance when you go to an institution that pretty well substantiated rumors of improprieties are floating about. Remember, these coaches made over 500 phone calls and I wouldn't doubt if many of the guys there were the guys that got them and they need to know the rules too. We specifically lost interest in one DI school because we found that they were under investigation and stood to lose scholarships. We checked into each school closely on our final list.

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This is somewhat of a tough dilemma on how to punish an institution that certainly profits from the cheating without hurting the present innocent players too much.

Allow the innocent to transfer or be released from their NLI without penalty.

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Originally posted by RJM:
Allow the innocent to transfer or be released from their NLI without penalty.

This will probably hit the fan and fly back at me, but,..............

The innocent, a funny word at times. I'm not throwing the whole bunch under the bus but after watching Dancing With The Stars I came to the conclusion it takes two to Tango. We're not talking about the Podunk Diesel Driving program, the ASU recruits are contacted by many schools and most likely have a good idea of recruiting rules. I just can't buy the "I didn't know that" excuse by every one of those illegal contacts, and also suprised that it was not reported earlier by someone.

Not only do I doubt every infraction was caught, I also feel there may have been recruits who had a hunch that the calls may have been a bit shady because there were no other calls coming in like that. Who knows, I don't know the specifics at all, but without pointing fingers at individuals, there was a "guilt by association" attached to the program as a whole and unfortunately there will be some collateral damage.

ASU seems to always have some type of recruiting allegation directed their way, over recruiting comes to mind. Some of those may have been out of jealousy from other programs, again, who knows. However, to assume all recruits signing NLI's were completely innocent of infraction participation is a blinder approach IMO. Regardless, its still a great school in my book, but the past red flags should have indicated an "enter at your own risk" mentality.