3finger, I think this situation is a little different. The dropped 3rd strike is a pretty straight forward rule. If 1st base is occupied, batter can't run. Very straight forward. IFR is more nebulus because it calls for judgement by the umpire - can the ball be caught with ordinary effort. What is ordinary effort?
I think this situation is different because so many people have different ideas about what ordinary effort is. Is a ball hit 275 ft. from HP considered ordinary effort? That is my contention with the play. It is what it is because the ump called it, but I may question his judgement about whether that ball could have been caught with ordinary effort. It's all about judgement in my mind.
I said it earlier, the 3rd base ump never called for IFR until after the ball hit the ground - my guess is he was just confirming the LF umps call but did not make the call himself because he didn't think it was ordinary effort (from his vantage point in the infield) for the ball to be caught.
I'm not convinced the SS was giving the universal sign for I got it either. It looked to me like he might have been throwing his arms out for balance as he was changing his momentum from running backwards, to try to stop to catch the ball. I don't know for sure and I don't think anyone does.
I am in no way saying this call determined the outcome of the game. Braves blew it by making errors and not taking advantage of all the baserunners they left on base during the game. Just having a discussion about the call.
Except when it is a checked swing.quote:The dropped 3rd strike is a pretty straight forward rule. If 1st base is occupied, batter can't run. Very straight forward.
Of course in the IF rule, the umpire has to decide if it is ordinary effort. And he has to decide if it actually was a bunt, or if it is actually a line drive. But about ordinary effort, here's what the St Louis shortstop had to say:
quote:"I was under it," Kozma said. "I should have made the play. I took my eyes off it. I was camped under it."
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quote:Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:Except when it is a checked swing.quote:The dropped 3rd strike is a pretty straight forward rule. If 1st base is occupied, batter can't run. Very straight forward.
Of course in the IF rule, the umpire has to decide if it is ordinary effort. And he has to decide if it actually was a bunt, or if it is actually a line drive. But about ordinary effort, here's what the St Louis shortstop had to say:quote:"I was under it," Kozma said. "I should have made the play. I took my eyes off it. I was camped under it."
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I see your smiley face for the bold. Haha. That doesn't really matter, batter still can't go. Shouldn't affect that rule.
Not sure about what the SS said. From what I saw, he really wasn't "camped under it". He ran out to somewhere near the spot, turned around to try to make the play, and almost immediately moved back in towards the infield to let the LF get it. "Camped under it" is kind of strong for this situation. I just went back and watched the video a couple of times again. At no time were the SS's feet ever set and stationary. He may have been in a decent position to make the play - maybe, but he was in no way "camped under it". IMHO.
quote:Originally posted by bballman:
3finger, I think this situation is a little different. The dropped 3rd strike is a pretty straight forward rule. If 1st base is occupied, batter can't run.
He can with two outs.
quote:Originally posted by Rob Kremer:quote:Yep.
Thanks! A straight question, answered by a straight answer! Somehow this sort of thing is beneath Jimmy.
Rob, you'd make a great attorney, or better yet, a politician.
I answered your question. If you don't like the answer, that's fine, but don't lie about me not answering. That's beneath you.
quote:Originally posted by Rob Kremer:quote:Time to move on.
You are a funny guy, Jimmy. Make an assertion, have a hypothetical question asked that calls that assertion into question, refuse to answer the hypothetical, then when asked again, dodge again, and try to end the discussion.
Kinda like on the field, where the umpire can always end the discussion.
That is an effective and appropriate game management tool used when a coach/manager continues to repeat a question that has been answered, as you have done in this thread.
Most coaches/managers learn to appreciate it as it keeps them in the game and lets them vent as they walk away.
Vent away, sir.
quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:quote:Originally posted by bballman:
3finger, I think this situation is a little different. The dropped 3rd strike is a pretty straight forward rule. If 1st base is occupied, batter can't run.
He can with two outs.
Touché.