Atlantic Coast Select Camp/Dirtbags

http://www.thedirtbags.com/dear_campers.htm

Novice Dad,
Are Div1 coaches permitted to attend or work camps, showcases (except their own) this time of the yea. I thought only if run by the school (which this was not)?
Why are you blaming the NCAA?

TPM - There's some kind of a clause that permits DI coaches to "work" at the camps or showcases. For some reason, it looks like this camp was view by the NCAA as a recruiting service/recruiting camp. My son attended a couple of different camps at DIs in the past winters where there were some other DI coaches attending.

It was the baseball coaches, themselves, who voted at their annual convention to restrict their recruiting dates. The consensus expressed at the time was that (1) players were feeling pressured to play and perform year-round and (2) assistant coaches were on the road year-round without the restrictions.

How is this camp any difference that the VA Wesleyan camp Nov 11-12? D-I coaches were at that camp, and it was at the start of the quiet period. Is the NCAA trying to make a distinction from a college-sponsored camp and a privately sponsored camp?

JT,
I think the quiet period begins after that. Lafmom, I think D1 coaches can go to other campus' during this time to "volunteer" if the host of the camp is the school. Not sure. This change is relatively new, two years?

This event/camp was not sponsored by the school, but by a private organization. They could still run it, but without D1 coaches in attendance.

PG may be able to give more info on this as D1 coaches were not allowed to attend jupiter due to the date change.

Prepster, the NCAA placed the restrictions on D1 to give the other schools a fair recruiting advantage. The coaches did vote on it. Some say some coaches like it because gives more time for them to be home during holidays, not being on the road year round, while others say it drives them crazy trying to get everything in during the summer, early fall.

Actually, I had the dates wrong. The VWC camp WAS the 12-14, which coincided with the beginning of the QUIET PERIOD. I'm just trying to figure out how some D-I schools were able to be there as "instructors," but cannot be at this one.

JT,
As I said I do believe if it was run by the SCHOOL it is allowed. Not 100% sure but makes sense.

Big schools that are host camps invite smaller division 2,3 schools and JC's in the areas to help. Not sure of the Div 1 coaches.

When son went to UM camp, there were coaches from smaller D1's but I think that was before the rule changed. They also had plenty of MLB scouts on hand to assist.

The issue as stated by the camp operators and also by NCAA regulation is as follows based on NCAA recruiting guidelines.

"No athletics department staff member may be
employed (either on a salaried or volunteer basis) by a camp or clinic established, sponsored or conducted by an individual or organization that provides recruiting or
scouting services concerning prospects. [13.12.2.3.1]

c. Other Noninstitutional Privately Owned Camps/
Clinics An institution’s athletics department personnel may serve in any capacity (e.g., counselor, guest lecturer, consultant) in a noninstitutional, privately owned camp
or clinic, provided the camp or clinic is operated in accordance with restrictions applicable to institutional camps (e.g., open to any and all entrants, no free or reduced admission to or employment of athletics award
winners). [13.12.2.3.3]"

It has nothing to with a school running it. A for profit camp by a third party can run a camp but it can not part of a recruiting service. The camp operators have run the camp before. If you look at the original post or Dibbles it will show you the camp operators response. A first class operation.

There are a number of camps that have coaches attend during this time since they are employed at the camp. My issue with the NCAA is its inconsistency.

Novice Dad,
Ok fair enough explanation by stating the rules.

I was under the impression from your post that it was the fault of the NCAA. It was compliance officers that were uneasy regarding the implications so they asked their coaches not to attend. I can't see blaming the NCAA, hey approvedit correct? Or am I missing something?

By the way, I found out today that most camps are run and owned by the coaches, not schools. Does that make them nonistitutional privately owned?

I think the key is the term "recruiting service" and not sure that the Dirtbags operation is tecnically a recruiting service.

Also what defines a showcase/camp from a clinic/camp. As usual with the NCAA very gray area is involved

TPM,

I realize that the NCAA didn't pull the plug but the fear of the NCAA is what caused the schools not to participate.

I blame them out of frustration. There were some pretty respectable schools signed on, and especially after WWBA had no D-1 coaches a number of 06' players had maybe their last chance to be seen by some schools not to mention 07's to get on some radars, not to mention some of the coaching they might receive.

Novice Dad

I think your point of the NCAA inconsistency is well taken.

Every day it seems they are in accord with which the way the wind is blowing that day.

Are there any reports out there as to how this camp went? turnout, weather etc.

There is more to this situation than meets the eye. According to Dirtbags Baseball website, the Dirtbags are run and/or coached by Tracy Partin. The sign up letter for the Dirtbags camp listed Austin Alexander as the camp director. It also listed him as an associate scout for the Dodgers. Their website also lists him as an associate head coach of the Dirtbags.

Impact Baseball is a respected sponsor of showcases in the Carolinas. It is run by Andy Partin, who I assume is related to Tracy Partin. Its showcases are organized and run by Austin Alexander.

If this showcase had been sponsored by Impact Baseball Div I coaches would have been unable to attend. Impact probably falls within the NCAA's definition of providing recruiting OR SCOUTING services. Are Impact Baseball and Dirbags Baseball one and the same? No. But there was obviously enough of a connection between the two to cause some concern. The fact that there was a link to the Dirtbags Camp on the Impact website probably didn't help matters.

Personally I don't think these guys did anything wrong. But I can also understand why the D 1 compliance officers did not want to take any chances. The moral of the story is that it is difficult to wear two hats at the same time.



The letter o

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
I think the key is the term "recruiting service" and not sure that the Dirtbags operation is tecnically a recruiting service.

Also what defines a showcase/camp from a clinic/camp. As usual with the NCAA very gray area is involved