Attend Showcase??

One thing to keep in mind here---if it is a "showcase" there can be no Division I coaches there---if it is a clinic /camp that is another horse of another color


Even more important is the fact that the boy may not be up to a top notch perfornace--- why not wait til he is in A-ONE Shape and ready to make an impression


The other fear I have here is that if he is not 100% he may overstrive to impress and do more damage and set him back with regard to the spring season


There are some things you cannot rush!!!

Don't go to a showcase when not at 100%. Am impression will likely be made, even if you have notified them ahead of time that he is not at his best.

TR gives sound advice.

I don't really have any experience in this specific situation, however, regardless of pre educating the coaches/scouts regarding your sons limitations...

You never get a second chance to make a first impression. My son attended showcases while he had undiagnosed mononucleosis. After the fact, we let all the coaches know of this when it was diagnosed. I doubt it changed many opinions regarding my sons percieved abilities.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
One thing to keep in mind here---if it is a "showcase" there can be no Division I coaches there---if it is a clinic /camp that is another horse of another color

just a question...


if its considered a "showcase" why can't division 1 coaches be there? and whats the difference between camp/clinic and showcase?

thank you

quote:

Originally posted by defense wins championships:

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
One thing to keep in mind here---if it is a "showcase" there can be no Division I coaches there---if it is a clinic /camp that is another horse of another color

just a question...


if its considered a "showcase" why can't division 1 coaches be there? and whats the difference between camp/clinic and showcase?

thank you

It is during Quiet Period for D1 schools and only contact is on campus...some coaches get around the rule by being paid for working the camp and say it is not evaluation/recruiting.

Homerun

I asked the question as to whether or not it was a showcase or a camp/clinic---if it is a showcase D-1 coaches cannot work it

quote:

Over 40 college and prof scouts will be in attendance based upon the info we received.

In attendance or invited? Big difference.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Homerun

I asked the question as to whether or not it was a showcase or a camp/clinic---if it is a showcase D-1 coaches cannot work it

TR, I thought you answered the original question, but Defense Wins Championships still did not understand the difference, so I was looking to add additional information...

Sounds to me like a money maker. They use all the right words to give you that warm and fuzzy feeling. There are lots of great showcases that you can attend when your son is healthy. Does this show that they don't follow your son and know he had TJ.
When they use some words it is a clear sign it is a money maker.

I personally would not let my son go if he was only 10 months out of TJ surgery. Why risk the upcoming season for something that sounds sort of "iffy" already when he can make up for it during the season, and play on a quality summer program?

I say if it's meant to be, it will happen regardless. We learned BIG TIME this past summer about not being 100% at showcases.

I agree, it is not worth the risk of getting hurt nor not looking 100%+.

Your son could make a huge mistake going back too soon. Forget the fuzzy words and go when your son is ready.
Those invitations are designed to push your buttons.

PG should be able to answer the question of what the difference between a showcase and a camp is as they advertise most of their events as showcases but a few as camps.

I think the difference is a camp is usually on a campus allowing the host school to be exempt from the contact rules.

Piratefan you ask a good question but the answer is very simple. No. There is NO WAY he should take the chance of sacrificing all the hard work he's been through and his baseball future. He doesn't need to be trying to impress scouts and coaches while in rehab from Tommy John's surgery. However you and he COULD go to the showcase as spectators to "evaluate' the showcase and the other participants.

Bobblehead brings up a very good point. ALL (let me repeat) --- ALL showcases and camps are designed to be "moneymakers". Marketing is very crucial in the success of any showcase or camp and the wording of the "invitation" is designed to push buttons. (it pushed yours) I laugh when I read what you said: they are looking at more than velocity but arm action, body type, presence, delivery, off-speed pitches, physical makeup, ect. I guess EVERYONE has some of those things!! Should be a huge turnout of paying pitchers.
Fungo
PS: Showcasing is good but all have a marketing plan.

TR and HR04 are right. The camp can be conducted anywhere, and D1 coaches may attend during the quiet period as paid instructors, but not by invitation to just watch/scout without compensation.

Thanks to all for your advice on this matter! I think you are right that it is not worth it to jeopardize his hardwork to come back from TJ. Instead, we plan on making a video in February and start sending them out to college coaches that have shown interest in the past.

Camps use to be camps, but changes in NCAA regulations have caused a new event called Showcase Camps.

Seems there is a loop hole that allows college coaches to attend a Camp during the periods they can not attend showcases. This is done by hiring the coaches to work the Showcase/Camp.

There are a few showcase events that have been in existence for several years that all of a sudden became Camps.

We do some camps and many showcases, but have tried to abide by NCAA rules. Technically, the recruiting calendar was designed to “even the playing field in recruiting”. Reasons included giving hard working coaches more time off rather than being away from their home so often. Personally I never bought into this reason because it is the hardest working coaches who want to gain the advantage of scouting year around. Basically they (NCAA) punished the hardest workers by disallowing the option to watch more players during parts of the year. Of course recruiting budgets did disallow some colleges from competing with others when it comes to travel and expenses. That part makes a little more sense, but those with the biggest recruiting budgets still use other methods to maintain a big advantage.

To the high school player the showcase/Camps provide opportunity to be seen by college coaches. (This can be a very good thing) So it is an advantage to the players, despite being a circumvention of the rules. After all, showcase “camps” were created to get college coaches to places that they normally could not legally attend by using the good old fashion way, find a legal loop hole in the rules… PAY THEM to be there!

We might do some of this in the future if the NCAA continues to allow it, which I doubt because it actually creates even more of an advantage to the top colleges in most cases. And what about that big concern about keeping the coaches home and off the road so they can spend more time with their families?

The reason we haven’t really been to involved in this new venture is because…

1 – We don’t have to because we are talking to hard working college coaches daily, providing information about players. They actually do use us as an important tool for recruiting.

2 – We want to maintain some kind of tradition and history to many off season PG events.

For example this weekend we will be holding the annual PG World Showcase in Ft Myers, FL. The history of this event shows a large number of first round draft picks and college stars and many who are now playing in the Major Leagues ie. Scott Kazmir, Zach Greinke, Carl Crawford, Dustin McGowen, and dozens of others. It’s an event that draws many highest level MLB scouts including scouting directors who fly in from all parts of the country. It was the World Showcase from day one and hopefully always will be and many colleges have recruited players from this event despite not being in attendance. Each year there are a few big surprises who did not sign during the early period. The tradition and history of that event would change if the event itself became a Camp rather than the World Showcase. Oddly enough the World Showcase started as one of the best camps ever held despite not using the title “Camp”. Lee Elia, Billy Conners, Bruce Kimm, and many of the best instructors in all of baseball worked with the players. But the main purpose was to showcase talent.

We feel that the World Showcase which years ago quickly became the top off-season scouting and recruiting showcase was the single biggest reason for the NCAA recruiting calendar to be created and put into affect. If all of a sudden this event turned into the PG World Showcase Camp, and hired coaches to legally be there, it would by itself send out a red flag To the NCAA. Some colleges would complain because we wouldn’t and couldn’t hire every college to attend, thus not a level playing field. There would be a big advantage to the colleges that had coaches hired to work the event. Then there would be more rules and regulations put in place, which might eliminate other good events for young players, those events that have hired coaches and call the event a camp.

The LAST thing college baseball and high school baseball players need is more NCAA rules that limit opportunities for those who work the hardest and desire the best. There are already way too many rules that are put into affect because the majority desire an equal playing field. This can not be avoided because the hardest workers and biggest winners will always be part of the minority when it comes to hard work.

Rather than boring people with an even longer post, think I’ll start another one regarding College and High school rules that don’t make sense to me. Could possibly cause some interesting debate.

PG,
Thanks for the explanation. Having college coaches directly participating could be an advantage, although it would depend on if those coaches were at the level the player is likely to end up at.

I differentiate a camp vs a showcase; where a camp provides instruction as the main theme of the event, where as the showcase is about demonstrating the skills that you have and the coaches just do evaluation vs instruction.

If it a true camp, the coaches would be doing the instruction or the discussion/presentation as part of the event vs just taking notes on what the players can do.

quote:

If it a true camp, the coaches would be doing the instruction or the discussion/presentation as part of the event vs just taking notes on what the players can do.

That is pretty much it... including taking the notes as they watch the players. Wait... That is part of scouting and recruiting, isn't it? And now it can be done off campus during any recruiting period.

So college coaches get paid to instruct AND look for recruits. While the same event is illegal for those coaches not hired and paid to be there and they don't have the advantage of seeing potential recruits. Let's face it... If there are radar guns and stop watches being used to write down numbers, it is very much a recruiting/scouting event. Kind of makes a farce out of the NCAA rules, but its OK with me because it can be a benefit to the players.

I'm not talking about traditional on campus college camps. This is a loop hole in the rules and I believe it will be addressed by Big Brother before long. Hope I'm wrong about that.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:

This is a loop hole in the rules and I believe it will be addressed by Big Brother before long. Hope I'm wrong about that.

PG, we all had hoped that you WERE the Big Brother!

Oh well, as long as the loophole lasts it will be a chance for some college assistant coaches to supplement their incomes a little bit. I doubt most assistant coaches make fabulous incomes from their primary job.

piratefan

quote:

Thanks to all for your advice on this matter! I think you are right that it is not worth it to jeopardize his hardwork to come back from TJ. Instead, we plan on making a video in February and start sending them out to college coaches that have shown interest in the past.

Piratefan if you go to the General Items Forum and scroll down to the Tommy John Surgery Results go to page 3 and read the post by MSgrits. His son was also returning from TJ Surgery coming into his senior year. He shows how he managed to still get his son recruited to college. IT was a very good post that I think could help in your situation. My son is also recovering from TJ Surgery so we know how you feel although my son is only a Junior. Hope this helps.


Banditsbb

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
I think the difference is a camp is usually on a campus allowing the host school to be exempt from the contact rules.

Piratefan you ask a good question but the answer is very simple. No. There is NO WAY he should take the chance of sacrificing all the hard work he's been through and his baseball future. He doesn't need to be trying to impress scouts and coaches while in rehab from Tommy John's surgery. However you and he COULD go to the showcase as spectators to "evaluate' the showcase and the other participants.

Bobblehead brings up a very good point. ALL (let me repeat) --- ALL showcases and camps are designed to be "moneymakers". Marketing is very crucial in the success of any showcase or camp and the wording of the "invitation" is designed to push buttons. (it pushed yours) I laugh when I read what you said: they are looking at more than velocity but arm action, body type, presence, delivery, off-speed pitches, physical makeup, ect. I guess EVERYONE has some of those things!! Should be a huge turnout of paying pitchers.
Fungo
PS: Showcasing is good but all have a marketing plan.

Fungo, Bobblehead and other cynics. Thought I would let you know this event a)costs a whopping $25 b) is conducted by a highly thought of org based in NC and c) has consistently in the past had the scout attendance they mention. No come on and not a moneymaker.

Piratefan, where does your son go to school?

This camp also will attract numerous pro scouts. Last year there were over 25 ml scouts in attendance. The top arms in NC SC VA are invited and most usually attend especially the NC ones. The top catchers are also invited. Last year I took one of my Sr RHP Chris Luck. It was a very nice experience for him because he threw very well and was not even on the radar as far as the draft untill he showed well at this event. I relayed the information from this event to PG and they had their guy at our first HS game of the year. Luck was rated very high after being seen by PG and the rest is history. The catchers are watched catching the pitchers and then throw down to second. Then the catchers take BP with wood with the scouts watching.

In other words its a really good event. Geared more for the 08's and the ml scouts. But there will be some college coaches there. And the word is spread on the Impact Website where velo is listed for each pitcher and pop times for each catcher. In other words this is a very good event and yes its a pricey 25.00 bucks to attend.

Having said all of that I can not see any reason to attend something like this if you are not 100% and coming off TJ the last thing I would want to do is throw to a gun with ml scouts and college coaches watching. Get healthy , get 100% , and show it in the spring. JMHO

quote:

Piratefan, where does your son go to school?

dawgswood, you have a PM.

Thanks dawgswood, banditsbb, Coach May for your responses! Banditsbb - I read the MSgrits post and it does help. Been a long road so far but we see a faint light at the end of tunnel. I know this spring/summer is going to be interesting and hope he gets his chance. Good luck to your son's rehab, banditsbb!

Coaches really do look at more than velocity from pitchers. However, you'd still better have velocity. I was sitting next to the coach of a major D1 at a camp who was gunning the pitchers. It was quite windy and the pitchers were struggling with their control so his major gripe was lack of strikes. I asked what the pitchers had been throwing and he said 83-84. He was using a Stalker Sport so I said on that gun those weren't too bad of velocities for HS kids. He just laughed. I didn't ask but my guess is that a working velocity of 85-86 on that gun with more to offer than just that velocity would be the starting point for generating interest there.

BTW, the same pitchers threw a couple days later without the wind and they all had marked improvement in their control and seemed to be throwing at higher velocities.

Not sure how many SC pitchers Impact invites anymore. Haven't heard of any going this year. Probably because there is a similar event run by Diamond Prospects (www.thediamondprospects.com) in SC on Jan. 27. Cost is $45. I think they had a similar number of MLB scouts last year. There will be some college coaches, DII's and JUCO's because DI coaches cannot attend due to NCAA rules.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
This camp also will attract numerous pro scouts. Last year there were over 25 ml scouts in attendance. The top arms in NC SC VA are invited and most usually attend especially the NC ones. The top catchers are also invited.

In other words its a really good event. Geared more for the 08's and the ml scouts. But there will be some college coaches there. And the word is spread on the Impact Website where velo is listed for each pitcher and pop times for each catcher. In other words this is a very good event and yes its a pricey 25.00 bucks to attend.

I was looking at a link provided in another post Site for colleges


Interesting that they would publish that it is a college "showcase" camp with coaches working the event, which is getting or trying to get around the quiet period rule:

http://www.abdacademy.com/

ABD MIZUNO COLLEGE PROSPECT CAMP

ABD will be hosting an open college showcase camp at Arrowhead Credit Union Park in San Bernardino. The event will be similar to a showcase but have college coaches working this event. We will have coaches from colleges from the west working this event.

DATES January 12/13, 2008 PITCHERS ONLY $295.00

STADIUM Arrowhead Credit Union Park POSITION PLAYERS $395.00

LOCATION San Bernardino, California

Banditsbb,

quote:

Piratefan if you go to the General Items Forum and scroll down to the Tommy John Surgery Results go to page 3 and read the post by MSgrits. His son was also returning from TJ Surgery coming into his senior year. He shows how he managed to still get his son recruited to college. IT was a very good post that I think could help in your situation. My son is also recovering from TJ Surgery so we know how you feel although my son is only a Junior. Hope this helps.


Banditsbb

Thank you for highlighting the helpful posts by MSGrits. I thought I would just mention that MSGrits is a mom!


Julie