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Automatic strike call?

B brookspw10+ posts
I was searching on the internet the other day in regards to NFHS balk rule on my RHP son making a pickoff to first by stepping directly to the base and found this document -- Fed Balks 2005.

Look at page 2, 3rd paragraph on the left. If pitcher is ready and batter steps out, whether no time was called or he was not granted time, then a strike is to be called. If the pitcher does throw a pitch...2 strikes are to be called.

1. Is this rule still in force?
2. If it is, why did the three umpires I asked about this in the last 2 days have no earthly idea about it?

Thanks -- and this is HS baseball with Fed umpires.
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bballmanbballman10,000+ posts
I hadn't heard of that either. Here's another one from the next paragraph:

"With runner(s) on base the pitcher, in the SET position, steps quickly back off the plate and with a motion – much like his pitching delivery – throws to Home. It’s a Balk. While not touching the pitcher’s plate he shall not make any motion/movement naturally associated with his pitch. (p. 49)"

What if a runner is attempting to steal home? Pitcher can't step off the pitching plate and throw home?
Last edited by bballman
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by bballman:
I hadn't heard of that either. Here's another one from the next paragraph:

"With runner(s) on base the pitcher, in the SET position, steps quickly back off the plate and with a motion – much like his pitching delivery – throws to Home. It’s a Balk. While not touching the pitcher’s plate he shall not make any motion/movement naturally associated with his pitch. (p. 49)"


What if a runner is attempting to steal home? Pitcher can't step off the pitching plate and throw home?


It's the same rule in OBR. He can't simulate a PITCH while not engaged with the rubber.

He can THROW home.
Last edited by Jimmy03
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by brookspw:
I was searching on the internet the other day in regards to NFHS balk rule on my RHP son making a pickoff to first by stepping directly to the base and found this document -- Fed Balks 2005.

Look at page 2, 3rd paragraph on the left. If pitcher is ready and batter steps out, whether no time was called or he was not granted time, then a strike is to be called. If the pitcher does throw a pitch...2 strikes are to be called.

1. Is this rule still in force?
2. If it is, why did the three umpires I asked about this in the last 2 days have no earthly idea about it?

Thanks -- and this is HS baseball with Fed umpires.


So what about this post? I'm curious to find out what the deal is.
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by coach2709:
quote:
Originally posted by brookspw:
I was searching on the internet the other day in regards to NFHS balk rule on my RHP son making a pickoff to first by stepping directly to the base and found this document -- Fed Balks 2005.

Look at page 2, 3rd paragraph on the left. If pitcher is ready and batter steps out, whether no time was called or he was not granted time, then a strike is to be called. If the pitcher does throw a pitch...2 strikes are to be called.

1. Is this rule still in force?
2. If it is, why did the three umpires I asked about this in the last 2 days have no earthly idea about it?

Thanks -- and this is HS baseball with Fed umpires.


So what about this post? I'm curious to find out what the deal is.


Nothing new here. Refer to 7-3-1 and 6-2-4(d) note.

However, the common interpretaton of 7-3-1 is that a strike is called on the batter if he delays the game and has both feet out of the box.

(Some may not know that Minor League Baseball has adopted this rule as a speed up rule.)

If the pitcher delivers, and the batter steps out with one or both feet out of the box or is simply holding his hand up but has not been granted time, the pitch is to be called a strike. Thus the two strikes. 6-2-4(d) note

The only news in the post is that three umpires didn't know the rules. As to the question in the OP as to why they didn't know the rules...beats me. Apparently their association doesn't have very good training or supervising programs.
Last edited by Jimmy03
B brookspw10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy03:
quote:
Originally posted by coach2709:
quote:
Originally posted by brookspw:
I was searching on the internet the other day in regards to NFHS balk rule on my RHP son making a pickoff to first by stepping directly to the base and found this document -- Fed Balks 2005.

Look at page 2, 3rd paragraph on the left. If pitcher is ready and batter steps out, whether no time was called or he was not granted time, then a strike is to be called. If the pitcher does throw a pitch...2 strikes are to be called.

1. Is this rule still in force?
2. If it is, why did the three umpires I asked about this in the last 2 days have no earthly idea about it?

Thanks -- and this is HS baseball with Fed umpires.


So what about this post? I'm curious to find out what the deal is.


Nothing new here. Refer to 7-3-1 and 6-2-4(d) note.

However, the common interpretaton of 7-3-1 is that a strike is called on the batter if he delays the game and has both feet out of the box.

(Some may not know that Minor League Baseball has adopted this rule as a speed up rule.)

If the pitcher delivers, and the batter steps out with one or both feet out of the box or is simply holding his hand up but has not been granted time, the pitch is to be called a strike. Thus the two strikes. 6-2-4(d) note

The only news in the post is that three umpires didn't know the rules. As to the question in the OP as to why they didn't know the rules...beats me. Apparently their association doesn't have very good training or supervising programs.


These rule references are in the NFHS rule book? Makes me wonder what else they don't know.
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
QUOTE]These rule references are in the NFHS rule book? Makes me wonder what else they don't know.[/QUOTE]

yes clearly they are.....NFHS rule 6-2-4d just as Jimmy stated....


as to wondering what else they dont know, clearly you can infer a lack of training OR a deliberate ignoring of a rule that they dont agree with....
B brookspw10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by piaa_ump:
QUOTE]These rule references are in the NFHS rule book? Makes me wonder what else they don't know.


yes clearly they are.....NFHS rule 6-2-4d just as Jimmy stated....


as to wondering what else they dont know, clearly you can infer a lack of training OR a deliberate ignoring of a rule that they dont agree with....[/QUOTE]
Thanks, and no, they had no idea.
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by brookspw:
Thanks, and no, they had no idea.


actually thats more encouraging..........an umpire who doesnt know a rule can be taught the rule.........an umpire who chooses to ignore a rule or interpret a rule with their own interpretation just shouldnt be working that rule code.....

The FED warns us not to do this every year.....

here is a prime example....

a number of years ago NFHS had umpires call out any runner who missed a base without an appeal by the defense.....I always hated that as I felt the umpire should not aid the defense in doing something that they are responsible to do......but I called it that way........thankfully they changed that......

Just my .02....
Last edited by piaa_ump
B brookspw10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy03:
quote:
Originally posted by coach2709:
Thanks - I had no idea about the two strike part of the rule.


It's not a "two strike" rule. There are two different rules at work, one strike each.

To be clear -- you are saying that if a pitch is thrown it is one strike for the pitch and one for the penalty/rule application, right?
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by brookspw:
quote:
Originally posted by dash_riprock:
quote:

Do you guys call this very oftern?

Thus far, never.

So...a batter has never stepped a foot out without you having granted him time out? I probably saw that 3-4 times this year. This rule was not applied.


Did they delay the game? Did they refuse to get back when told by the umpire?
Last edited by Jimmy03
B brookspw10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy03:
quote:
Originally posted by brookspw:
quote:
Originally posted by dash_riprock:
quote:

Do you guys call this very oftern?

Thus far, never.

So...a batter has never stepped a foot out without you having granted him time out? I probably saw that 3-4 times this year. This rule was not applied.


Did he delay the game?
He obviously delays the game if the pitcher, who is ready to pitch, halts his delivery and doesn't pitch. On the other hand, if he does throw the pitch -- I'm not sure how that delays the game but the specified penalty was be a strike call...or two.

Explain where you are coming from.
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by brookspw:
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy03:
quote:
Originally posted by brookspw:
quote:
Originally posted by dash_riprock:
quote:

Do you guys call this very oftern?

Thus far, never.

So...a batter has never stepped a foot out without you having granted him time out? I probably saw that 3-4 times this year. This rule was not applied.


Did he delay the game?
He obviously delays the game if the pitcher, who is ready to pitch, halts his delivery and doesn't pitch. On the other hand, if he does throw the pitch -- I'm not sure how that delays the game but the specified penalty was be a strike call...or two.

Explain where you are coming from.


I am "coming from" the rulebook. Do you have one?

Synopis of 7-3-1: A batter may step out with one foot as in your question provided he gets back in within 20 seconds, which is longer than it sounds.

He may legally step out with both feet under 8 different and listed conditions with no penalty. This is not simply a black and white issue of "batter steps out, batter gets strike." That's one reason we have umpires.
Last edited by Jimmy03

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